Now what a story this is! ..what a doctor said infront of an abortion

reply to post by VforVendettea


Well then move to another country where they dont use disposable diapers, cars, and household chemicals that get flushed down the drain that damage the environment. Frankly your answer doesnt hold water to say abortion isnt selfish.

Who decides who dies when it comes to an abortion? Mother, or possibly Father. And who is the one that ultimately feels the impact of the abortion, the UNBORN. So if the one who is on trial for being in existance doesnt even get to make their own choice of the matter? Sounds to me like a selfish act.

So accuse someone of murder, take them to court, and the penalty is death, but they have NO LAWYER or defense. Its all up to the judge, and the accuser. Hmm...... seems fair doesnt it?

As human beings we have a responsibility to protect and defend the defenseless. If one is unwilling to do this, then such a person is unworthy of life. As more and more of these selfish and bloodthirsty people accumulate upon the earth conditions here will steadily deteriorate. Just look around you for the proof.

Originally posted by heineken
Hi..

i encountered this short story and wanted to share with you :

A worried woman went to her gynecologist and said:

'Doctor, I have a serious problem and desperately need your help! My baby is not even 1 year old and I'm pregnant again. I don't want kids so close together.'

So the doctor said: 'Ok and what do you want me to do?'

She said: 'I want you to end my pregnancy, and I'm counting on your help with this.'

The doctor thought for a little, and after some silence he said to the lady: 'I think I have a better solution for your problem. It's less dangerous for you too.'

She smiled, thinking that the doctor was going to accept her request.

Then he continued: 'You see, in order for you not to have to take care of 2 babies at the same time, let's kill the one in your arms. This way, you could rest some before the other one is born. If we're going to kill one of them, it doesn't matter which one it is. There would be no risk for your body if you chose the one in your arms.'

The lady was horrified and said: 'No doctor! How terrible! It's a crime to kill a child!'

'I agree', the doctor replied. 'But you seemed to be OK with it, so I thought maybe that was the best solution.'

The doctor smiled, realizing that he had made his point.

He convinced the mom that there is no difference in killing a child that's already been born and one that's still in the womb. The crime is the same!

reply to post by jcord


no we don't. we only have arbitrary rights and morals that we gave ourselves. nature doesn't care what we do. we have as much of a responsibility to defend the defenseless as the cows do to form an army and storm the meat packing plants. humans are not special unless you're talking about in the mentally handicapped kind of way.

You will meet someone with your philosophy soon. There are lots of sociopaths in the world. Enjoy.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by jcord

 

no we don't. we only have arbitrary rights and morals that we gave ourselves. nature doesn't care what we do. we have as much of a responsibility to defend the defenseless as the cows do to form an army and storm the meat packing plants. humans are not special unless you're talking about in the mentally handicapped kind of way.

Originally posted by Natame
Ok im sorry but i guess i have issues with this... a womans body is hers and hers alone. I have had three wonderful children and i know i would never have aborted them. But i also believe a woman has the right to choose her fate. I do understand the fact that a baby once conceived is alive. But knowing that there is alot of different reasons that a woman could or would want to terminate that said pregnancy is her CHOICE. I would never dictate to anyone that wanted to have a tattoo or plastic surgery, to have a cancer removed or life threatening surgery..Your body belongs to you... only you have that choice to do what you will with it.

how selfish and ridiculous. An infant is not "a womans body" so how dare you compare it to the choice of a tattoo or cancer treatment. thats just silly!

reply to post by jcord


yes, but unfortunately there aren't enough of us logical people out there. if rationality and evidence = sociopath then im a damn proud sociopath. apparently for people like you we are either the chosen ones or were not even worth living. you can't handle an existence without a meaning or purpose and if given one you would seemingly go around killing everyone for no reason.

just because i don't believe humans are any more special of a creature than any of the other millions on earth doesn't mean i have any contempt for mankind.. only for ignorance.

but i dont expect to thwart the faith tainted uttering of a psychopath. all we can do is wait til we die to see who is right.

Oh great. This topic AGAIN.

Pro-lifers get under my skin. I just love how they futilely try to dictate what a woman can do. Their arguments that it is a life is silly. That so called life is completely dependent on the mother for growth and survival. EVERYTHING that is required for self sustaining life outside the womb is provided by the mother inside the womb. I mean everything -- such as things that we rarely acknowledge like perpetual oxygen and proper temperature for survival as only two examples. Since the mother provides the very aspects that allow the life inside them to grow they have every right to abort that life as they please. Do not even attempt to create an argument that relies on an example of life outside the womb. It is completely irrelevant.

Women have had abortions since at least Roman times. It is a fact of life. You cannot stop it. GET OVER IT already.

reply to post by My_Reality


seriously!

especially with all of the scientific studies to see when infants gain that sense of 'self' and how its not even til 2 months out of the womb.

oh but wait. theres no room for science in religion.

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia

Originally posted by Natame
Ok im sorry but i guess i have issues with this... a womans body is hers and hers alone. I have had three wonderful children and i know i would never have aborted them. But i also believe a woman has the right to choose her fate. I do understand the fact that a baby once conceived is alive. But knowing that there is alot of different reasons that a woman could or would want to terminate that said pregnancy is her CHOICE. I would never dictate to anyone that wanted to have a tattoo or plastic surgery, to have a cancer removed or life threatening surgery..Your body belongs to you... only you have that choice to do what you will with it.

how selfish and ridiculous. An infant is not "a womans body" so how dare you compare it to the choice of a tattoo or cancer treatment. thats just silly!

an infant isn't, but embryo and fetus are. Not many people that I know of advocate aborting infants...

The problem with abortion is, when does that fetus become a human being? There is a point where it is just morally wrong.

Does the woman have a right to abort a 6 or 7 month old fetus?

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


I had to friend you. While I myself prescribe to no one particular higher power. I believe in a higher power. That is however based on my own personal experiences and I would not even begin to try and convert anyone to my beliefs as I don't know how one could believe what I do without my experiences. Despite the fact that I disagree with your belief in atheism I find your logic and reason to be flawless, and I hardly hold it against you that you are in fact an atheist as I was as well for a very long time. Star for you sir. Oh and in case you are curious I sort of believe "Gods a kid with an ant farm"~Constantine (the movie)....created but not controlled we are watched but not necessarily judged. That's just my two cents.

reply to post by GrimReaper86




and see, though i can often come off as a jerk, i try not to be militant at all in my atheism. i had a thread a little while ago where i talk about how i don't mind the religious at all, just the commercialized, indoctrinating religious type who don't know why they are religious other than they were brought up that way.

i understand why the truly religious believe what they do and i understand how helpful it can be in ones life and therefor i have nothing but respect.

all i am against is ignorance. i choose logic any day, no matter how unsatisfying it may be to my ego

Originally posted by ICEKOHLD
i have had an abortion, or been party to one (she decided to). know what? best damned decision we ever made. now...we're not both strapped for cash, stressed out all the time, hating each other and what our lives have become like all the other people who got pregnant in their early 20s accidentally.

go ahead...accuse me of murder! at least i'll be able to afford the lawyer to defend myself cuz i don't spend all my money on a kid that i regret having when i did. i think it's better for a couple to abort the fetus from the jump than have the kid and the kid grow up neglected and not feeling as loved as he/she should. and creating another orphan isn't very pious, either.

Twenty something parent of a beautiful one year old here. We're pretty I broke most of the time. I'm sorry you couldn't see what the life you created would have grown into. And it certainly would have grown into something you would love for the rest of your lives. When I look into my sons eyes and think of what could have been if we had decided not to go through with becoming a parent I think of a black hole. I no longer work for myself or my spouse but for the three of us. Raising my son has been the most rewarding thing I have ever done. I guess it's all in how you see things. I see my place in the world has shifted, that my whole life has led up to this point. He is my chance to make the world what I would want it to be.

Being atheist and socially liberal I have no religious bearing on this topic. I'm also against the death penalty. I believe it is no ones rightful decision to determine who lives and dies.

It's hard as hell sometimes, but we make it work. There are times when we just scrape by. He started calling me dada as of a few weeks ago. I consider it an honor. Our lives without him would have a pretty damned big hole in them if we had choosen the other option knowing what we know now. I shudder.

I hope that eventually our humanity will catch up with our technology.

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


It must be a very boring life for you, to think that after you die what happens after? To think, that all your years on earth for what, to work eat sleep in vain? You just exist to exist? How important you must feel and how special you must think humans are to be on top of the food chain. Do you even feel or be aware of your existance an expression of something more, or is that just interactions of molecules in your brain to express in our understanding what we call 'feelings'. Why do we dream, whats the purpose? Where do people get ideas of life after death, or why do we have pain, or happiness? Where do people get these connections with others thats more than just a feeling, but its deeper than that? Is love just a fabrication of our mind to use for attraction and interaction for propagation, or is it something more? Why do we humans of all the species on the planet try so hard to protect the weak, when that goes directly against the belief or idea of survival of the fittest? Yet, we still continue to save others, suffer, sacrifice resources, time and effort to help the lesser? Technically, in the eyes of someone who believes in evolution, helping the weaker is unprofitable, stupid, and slowing down the evolutionary process. Evolutionists should be praising Hitler, cause in his actions he was trying to speed up evolution by killing the weaker of the species (the Jews and others).

Hitler’s Hit List Species Blood Mixture

Nordic (blond, blue eyed…...…. Close to Pure Aryan
Germanic ………………….… Predominantly Aryan (brown hair, blue-eyed or, less desirable brown-eyed
Mediterranean ………………………… Slightly Aryan
Slavic …………………..Close to half-Aryan, half-Ape
Oriental ………………… Slight Ape preponderance
Black African ……...….……….… Predominantly Ape
Jewish (fiendish skull) ..…………. Close to pure Ape

webcache.googleusercontent.com...:RSAuH6pz-scJ:www.fsteiger.com/creationist-email.html+the+hitler+movement+hit+list&cd=3&hl=en &ct=clnk&gl=ca

Life is more than just flesh, senses, water, food, reproduction and sleep. To only look at a carnal level of understanding, is to be like a child, undeveloped in your thinking. If you fall into this category, thinking our existance is meaningless, then dont use these terms, for if you do you aknowledge the origin, and the connection it makes with spiritual and eternal.

saying there is a soul or spirit of a person or animal, dreams or dreaming, saying 'oh my god', saying good or evil or good vs evil, demons magic witchcraft or miracles, or saying to a woman you look like an angel (angels in fact are only men, never were women fyi) and others.

By using any of these few terms I pointed out, you are saying there is more to life than just a breath and sensations. But if its a choice you want to make ignore all possibilities of a higher power in the universe, I would strongly advise against such thinking.

As for the women who choose to kill the unborn, it was the wrong choice. So many negatives to abortion and very little positives, im suprised so many women do it. Dont justify the act of abortion, just admit it was selfish, its all I ask.

www.abortionfacts.com...

reply to post by captaintyinknots

your argument is flawed. When it is abortion, the mother choses to terminate. In your scenario, someone else terminated.
Someone else can choose to have an abortion for you

Not sure I follow you (unless you meant "can't" instead of "can").

In what circumstance can someone else choose to have an abortion for you?
However, in the eyes of the law, I either took a life, or I didn't.

In no other situation does the mother's (or parents) opinion dictate law.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by Seektruthalways1

 

i think religion has instilled a little too much of an ego in man. thinking life is a bit more special than it actually is. i could equate aborting a fetus to killing a chicken.

. . .

thats the problem. were just animals, nothing special except we have a more complicated brain. animals die all the time and no one cares too much. there are animals who give birth and eat their own offspring. were animals, let the animal parent do whatever it wants to its offspring.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

yes . . . the old

man is nothing more than a rat, a radish, a pigeon or a rock arguments.

Soooooooo, I may as well shoot you as feed you then?

There are no values from any foundation of any sort?

Everything is merely time plus chance?

Therefore, in that frame of reference, perspective and 'reality,' even your pontifications are merely meaningless brain farts . . . 100% a function of all the CHANCE PLUS TIME stimuli/response pairs over your lifetime . . . therefore having no more significance to your readers than

"q437[532(*&(^$^%#q!&^%$(*&(&]+_i'L;KJH;LHP(*&)%^*^5368754078_)*(-9869&^$*^%$#^&#%*&^%06\"

Wellllllllllllllllllll

here's

_)(*_*&(*%&^#&^%^$%)(_*&+)*_(^(*^%$*&^%#&^%$*(&I^TYFGKJFVJHS %^%)%^^&%EW(*&)^

back at ya.

reply to post by Seektruthalways1


As a former atheist I disagree that an atheist has less value over their own life. In fact as an atheist one must surely believe they probably only get this one life to live. If there is nothing after this life as atheists believe then wouldn't that make their lives that much more valuable to them because it is the only life they will ever know. I myself believe in a higher power now....but in many ways I found life just as valuable if not more so as an athiest...at least my own life because it was the only opportunity I had to "be". When that's all there is it's hard NOT to want to live life to the fullest.

reply to post by heineken


Wrong, There is a huge difference between a Zygote and a 1 year old baby.

That doctor acted like a disrespectful judgmental jackass.

You speak of rationality and evidence, but you present neither. You are the one who cannot handle existence WITH meaning. Therefore you hate everything that reminds you of it. Your entire life is about the next high. That is the whole meaning of life to people like you. Are you even sober now?


reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx

I've come to the conclusion that we men are gods now. So i say kill as many babies as you want but,
while they are at it let's start cloning humans already.