The Moon Is Upsidedown Tonight ! Las Vegas, Nevada

reply to post by luxordelphi


It was moved to skunk works for a short period of time because the OP never did post any evidence to support a theory of why the Moon should NOT look like the posted picture...just to be clear...

reply to post by CherubBaby


Suggestion. Take a photo at moonrise today (about 4:00PM), the moon will look like this:



Then take another at moonset (5:40 AM about), you'll get this:



Note the apparent rotation of the moon relative to the horizon.

reply to post by Alienmojo


I would have replied to you sooner but the truth is I have not been paying alot of attention to the thread ;ately for the very reasons you mention. It's like a gang fight. But I thank you regardless if you and I or anyone else for that matter agree or not. Thanks again.. Good luck always.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

Stop it. We're talking about the tilt of the moon.

Orion appears to be tilted a different direction at different times of the night for the same reason that the Moon appears to be tilted at different times of the night.

I was just eliminating the Sun from the equation to show you that the Sun has nothing to do with the "perceived" tilt of the Moon -- because it has nothing to do with the perceived tilting of the constellation of Orion.

You can see this in Uncinus' post above (or Here) showing the Moon at Moon-rise and moon-set as seen from Las Vegas this time of the year.

In his post, you can see on the top image that there is a round spot at the upper right part of the Moon at moon-rise, as it would appear to an observer in Las Vegas. At Moon-set, the Moon appears to have rotated (or tilted) so now that same round spot is at the lower right part of the Moon as seen from an observer in Las Vegas.

Now, imagine that the Moon in Uncinus' images was a crescent Moon. The orientation of the terminator line would appear to tilt (along with that round spot and the whole rest of the Moon) at Moon-set relative to Moon-rise.

If you think Uncinus' post is NOT illustrating the perceived tilt of the Moon properly, then please explain why that post is in error, and please show me how the Moon really should look at Moon-rise and Moon-set from Las Vegas at this time of the year.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
...When is MY question going to get answered? I want to know why the Goddard Space Flight Center puts out a graphic showing the "Moon's Winter Path" when the smile moon is observed in diverse latitudes and in all seasons?

Because due to the tilt of the earth (a tilt that gives us our seasons) the Winter Moon is much higher in the night sky in the mid-latitudes (but not the daytime sky), and those latitudes see more of the moon's path during the course of one night, so the perceived tilt is much more noticeable in the winter.

The perceived Moon tilt at Moon-set still occurs in the summer, but because the summer moon path is so low in the night sky when seen from mid-latitudes, far less of the moon's path can be seen during one night, and the tilt is not as noticeable (but it still can be seen somewhat).

Double post.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

The sun is important to show if the moon is in an established position or has departed from established parameters.

The moon's position is just fine, and it only appears to rotate "upside-down" from a non-polar aligned perspective, something astronomers call field rotation. Other than libration, its orientation is fixed from a polar aligned perspective and it does not appear to rotate "upside-down":

The moon's position in the sky can also be determined directly by measuring its position relative to the stars, you don't need the sun to do it. I've done it myself. First I took a frame of the moon from the video I recorded on that same night right as I disengaged the drive system at 10:29:00 PM eastern time (00:58:03 on this recording: www.ustream.tv... ). I then determined where the center of the moon should was based on the curvature of the moon's limb. In this particular image (having expanded the canvas size to 1100x960) the center was at 528x500:
i319.photobucket.com...
I then took the frame immediately after re-engaging the drive system at 10:38:45 eastern time and put it in the same position. Since 585 seconds had passed between drive disengagement and drive re-engagement (meaning the telescope was not moving at all during this time), the stars should progress through the field of view by 586.6 arcseconds (a sidereal day is shorter than a solar day, making a solar day about 1.0027 times longer). Given that the moon's coordinates at drive disengagement should have been 17h 41m 53.91s, -23d 05' 33.1", the previously determined center point of the moon should now correspond to the following coordinates:
17h 51m 40.51s -23d 05' 33.1"
Overlaying the Palomar Sky Survey image corresponding to those coordinates centered on the 528x500 point corresponding to the previous position of the moon's center point finds a match with the stars from the video at the moment the drives were re-engaged 585 seconds after disengagement:
i319.photobucket.com...
In other words, the stars that were present at that point reveal that the moon was right where it should have been relative to the stars.

Automated astrometry confirmed these measurements:
flickr.com...
The coordinates for where the moon's center point had been in the image were 17h 51m 40s, -23d 05' 33" right where it should be:
i319.photobucket.com...
The moon is exactly where it should be in the sky, to within the resolution of my scope, which was 2.21 arcseconds/pixel in the configuration used to acquire these images. That's orders of magnitude greater than the resolution of the human eye. The moon's where it should be and its orientation is normal.

reply to post by ngchunter



Thank you, ngchunter.

The first minute of your video shows very clearly how the Moon can tilt as it moves through the night, as seen from the perspective of most people on Earth.


===============


luxordelphi --

I'm beginning to suspect that you think the perceived tilt of the Moon is caused by the sunlit portion "shifting" on the moon itself, rather than the because of the change of angle from which people on earth are looking at the Moon.

...or am I wrong to suspect that?


As seen in ngchunter's video, as the Moon appears to tilt, it's not the sunlit portion "shifting", but rather it is the WHOLE moon that appears to rotate.

Again, this tilting/rotation is not really happening, and is only perceived to be doing this by people on Earth due to the change in the angle from which they are viewing the Moon as the earth rotates under it.

There were a bunch of contrail going across the mon last night, and a lunar halo, and Jupiter was right there next to the moon.



About 9:00PM. Moon was where it was supposed to be.

Originally posted by Uncinus
There were a bunch of contrail going across the mon last night, and a lunar halo, and Jupiter was right there next to the moon.

About 9:00PM. Moon was where it was supposed to be.

OMG! chemtrails!

...just kidding


Beautiful picture of the Moon with Jupiter, by the way. That halo adds a nice touch.

Too bad my questions don't get answered. Too bad I have to listen to Skunk Works theories beginning on the first page with blatant mis-information. Good that I don't need you all to figure this out for me. But just in case you are inclined to address an on-topic issue: Why does the Goddard Space Flight Center put out a graphic showing the "Moon's Winter Path" when the boat moon is seen all over the globe at many different latitudes in all seasons? Am I talking to myself here?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Why does the Goddard Space Flight Center put out a graphic showing the "Moon's Winter Path" when the boat moon is seen all over the globe at many different latitudes in all seasons? Am I talking to myself here?

Because the moon's path across sky is different in the winter.

Really it's the moon's NIGHT path that's different. Since the moon is orbiting the earth every 28 days, then the path of the moon varies based on those 28 days. However to see a crescent setting boat moon it has to be at night, as the sun has to be below the horizon (beneath the moon).

This is most pronounced when the sun is opposite the moon in the sky, i.e. during a full moon.

ETA: That diagram should really be labeled "waxing crescent moon's summer/winter path", as those paths don't hold true for all phases of the moon. I really would recommend getting a good desktop astronomy program if you really want to look into what is going on.

reply to post by Uncinus


I can't even believe I've continued to back and forth with you this long. Seem like everybody but you, Uncinus, knows that the moon's path has departed from established parameters and that the celestial order has been disturbed. Unable to leave the computer long enough to actually go look up, you are the last to know.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Huh? But I've been showing with actual observations that the moon's path is exactly as it is supposed to be. It precisely matches the positions expected based on previous observations, and science.

And how am I not looking up? What do you think that photo of the moon was?

You know, we can test this. If the moon has actually moved, then it's not going to stop moving, so the future paths should also be off. I can predict EXACTLY where the moon will be for any second in the next decade. So if you'd like to pick a date, I can tell you were the moon will be, and what it will look like. Then we can verify.

reply to post by luxordelphi


This is stunning.....and extremely puzzling

Seem like everybody but you, Uncinus, knows that the moon's path has departed from established parameters and that the celestial order has been disturbed.

The Moon's path has "departed form established parameters"??

And, this is not news because.......?? Something of that nature, if true, would have been broadcast and reported about loudly, and widely.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Too bad my questions don't get answered. Too bad I have to listen to Skunk Works theories beginning on the first page with blatant mis-information. Good that I don't need you all to figure this out for me. But just in case you are inclined to address an on-topic issue: Why does the Goddard Space Flight Center put out a graphic showing the "Moon's Winter Path" when the boat moon is seen all over the globe at many different latitudes in all seasons? Am I talking to myself here?

Your questions have been answered. Repeatedly. With graphs, videos, charts, everything but crayon to paper. Maybe that's what it will take?

Your refusal to accept those answers based on YOUR opinion that "Ooooooh, no one can be 100% sure" is the highest form of trollism. Or trollitry. Or trollology. Whatever. Your posts in other threads support this. You see a blue planet on a Chinese space video and refuse to accept its lens flare. You see what you want to see and that's the end of it.

This is just a gigantic clusterfluff of a thread at this point.

I have shown photos, pictures, shots that actual people actually took of a boat moon at latitudes where none had ever been seen before. You all have shown graphics and computer generated simulations missing a sun and from outer space perspectives. I have shown photos of this boat moon in all seasons. You all have come back with some wierd Goddard Space Flight graphic showing the 'Moon's Winter Path.' I have produced links and eywitness observation to show that the boat moon is something a person could expect to see at the equator. I have produced stories of people visiting the equator from Denver and other locations who were surprised to see the moon this way NEVER HAVING SEEN IT LIKE THAT BEFORE.

It's fun to argue with you all. After awhile though I just have to say some people don't have a scientific mind because they are unable to observe. Still - you all could be artists, poets - these are right brain functions. And they are valued in our society. I value them myself. An artists' visions are often of the future. What you all see is hopefully a return to the established order after all the dust settles. So there you go, my dears, you are visionaries of the future but, sadly, not observant of the present.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus

 

I can't even believe I've continued to back and forth with you this long. Seem like everybody but you, Uncinus, knows that the moon's path has departed from established parameters and that the celestial order has been disturbed. Unable to leave the computer long enough to actually go look up, you are the last to know.

Right, he's taking pictures of the moon but he's not looking up...

I also take pictures of the moon and even go so far as to measure its position and compare its orientation in a polar aligned perspective to the non-polar aligned perspective you observe it from. I have illustrated, in every way possible, that there's nothing wrong with the moon's orientation or position. It's clear to me that you are not looking at the situation with a rational mind.

reply to post by luxordelphi


So what going on then - the world has tilted on its axis?

The links you provide show that the boat moon happens in many different locations, and that people from northern locations don't notice it as much. That's all.

Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

So what going on then - the world has tilted on its axis?

I will bet the farm that the blame will be cast on a rogue planet.

The need and desire in some to have Nibiru be real is just wackadoodle to an unimaginable degree.

Originally posted by luxordelphiI have produced stories of people visiting the equator from Denver and other locations who were surprised to see the moon this way NEVER HAVING SEEN IT LIKE THAT BEFORE.

Here's a picture from Oregon (Mt. Bachelor, about 44° North latitude) taken in July 2003. The tilt in this image looks to be about 30° from the vertical:

www.zendner.com...

Image Source

So people HAVE seen a tilting moon and Moon-set before, even at mid-latitudes and even in the summer (although it appears to tilt more when setting on winter nights).

By the way, I'm not just making stuff up about the tilting Moon. I've been a sky-watching enthusiast since I was young (since back in the late 1970s), and I distinctly remember seeing the moon's terminator line tilted away from the "vertical" when it rose and set -- even back then. It seems to me that if people don't remember seeing this, then they probably just weren't paying as much attention, or they weren't as interested in the sky as some of us were.