Massive Chemtrail Attack: Midwest

reply to post by dw31243


are you allowing for the time delay in the info appearing dw? Flight aware isnt live and you may have to wait 5-10 mins for the data to catch up.

Its night time here but if its clear tomorrow Ill give it a go.

reply to post by dw31243


Got any actual examples of that happening?

Time, date, position of a/c, a screen shot of FA over the area at the same time??

In fact other chemtrail believers would like you to keep details of exactly that and report it to a central "database" - see www.abovetopsecret.com... for some links

More people are looking up at the skies during this major week of Chemtrails accross the Midwest and the entire US.

She made this great Chemtrail Documentary and video analysis of the Chemtrails this week:

Grid-like Chemtrail Patterns - Liberty, MO; Orem, UT; Phoenix, AZ - Nov. 3 & 4, 2011

Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by Uncinus

 

Couldn't chemtrails contain many varying ingredients, depending on the desired effect of the chemicals relative to each individual flight?

edit on 5-11-2011 by esteay812 because: (no reason given)

Assuming you are still talking about airliners the answer is no.

I'll tell you what, if you would like me to I'll get a fuel sample and sent it to you. I'll document it with pictures to show where it came from, seal it and fed ex it to you. Because I don't want to be on the line for all the cost, then you can send that sample to be tested and see what it contains. Would that be something you would be interested in getting? If your in the US then I'll send it ground so it doesn't get treated as DG, not sure of the regulations if it has to be over seas.

Not at all being sarcastic or anything, this is a genuine offer.

reply to post by ProudBird

See, the VOR nearest to the city of Salt Lake is called the "Wasatch" VOR. Right there, should be about in the center of the image I posted. Those black lines represent every potential route that is PUBLISHED and can be flown....and, it's busy enough that jets will fly along those routes, in those directions. SO, just for your little "corner of the planet".....tell us again about those "impossible 10-point stars"???

Time and time again you debunkers present a digital image of a map that has tons of lines on it...... saying ..."look at all those lines"!!

So what are you saying? That each one of those lines represents a "Persistent Contrail?"

Cause that's how you present it and how you insinuate it.

I am sorry but that type of rational has way to many fallacies in it.

It is certainly not that busy of a commercial airspace that all those routes are being used ... let alone being used all within a few hours.

If the planes are commercial ....then you also need to account for cancelled flights, delayed flights and many more annoying problems that happen when you travel on commercial airlines.

So IMO ..... the probability that 5-8 commercial flights happen to intersect at an exact point is almost Zero.


planefinder.net... Go there or perhaps another plane finder site and on the next clear day you see planes leaving trails..... look ....and I would bet that plane is not on that website.

Being in Utah ...it's easier to spot since we don't have as much commercial traffic as the eastern seaboard.

reply to post by dw31243


More people are looking up, but do they have the aviation knowledge to go with it? How many of the chemtrailers have absolutely no idea of upper air routes in their area? The video you posted shows the ignorance out there with the criss cross grid patterns. Watch the following video. The aircraft are legally separated and cross above, below each other. How do you think the contrails will appear from the perspective of the ground observer?



skyvector.com...

From the top bar click on the charts. This will bring up the J and Q routes. This covers the high altitude routes. Those routes cover the height 18,000 to 45,000 feet. Many people are simply unaware that these high altitude routes exist. You will regularly see on ATS people claiming that they don't live anywhere near an airport yet regularly see aircraft spraying and making grids in their region. It is simply complete ignorance of aviation and aviation routes in their area.

Wow, this is nuts, because on the morning of the 2nd, I woke up to major chemtrailing in the east of us, where I live in northern San Diego county, about 7miles inland from the ocean. We never see that here where we are, ever. But I could see 4 planes (or orbs, my photos didn't show any planes) going at it heavily, in a north-south pattern all over the sky. One flew directly over our house, later, and left a huge pluming trail, which a nice gust of wind gladly blew away to the east. I had put out two humidifiers with water and white vinegar, as I've seen people actually do that and it seems that the vinegar in the air binds with the barium/aluminum salts or neutralizes them and clears the skies. The sky overhead did stay clear after that. Then later that evening, a storm blew in. So, I figured it was just them trying to steer the storm or encourage it to drop it's load here, as it is heavy fire season here and gets really dry. We'd just had a red alert for several days with desert winds (Santa Ana conditions) which can spark really bad fires. We've had awful, large, raging ones cover our county in years past, and the county and other agencies have been under heavy pressure to not let that happen again. They are working on tearing out wooden electric poles and replacing them with metal, too, since one huge fire was blamed on the wooden poles out in the less populated areas. I don't know if that's the reason they did the spraying, as I know there's much more to the story than that. I did take a few photos, though. Four of them working on it at one time made it a bit obvious, anyway.

Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by ProudBird

 

Time and time again you debunkers present a digital image of a map that has tons of lines on it...... saying ..."look at all those lines"!!

So what are you saying? That each one of those lines represents a "Persistent Contrail?"


If the planes are commercial ....then you also need to account for cancelled flights, delayed flights and many more annoying problems that happen when you travel on commercial airlines.

So IMO ..... the probability that 5-8 commercial flights happen to intersect at an exact point is almost Zero.

The chances of 5-8 planes in the span of a few hours going through an intersection is almost zero? Based on what? You know why those pictures of different routes are on those maps? Because planes use them, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Those air routes are on aeronautical charts, then there are planes seen flying on them... wow how crazy is that?

reply to post by dplum517

That each one of those lines represents a "Persistent Contrail?"

NO....and, stop putting words in people's mouths.

The Jet Airways intersecting at a VOR clearly show that the claim that used a photo showing the contrails intersecting and called that "impossible" for normal activity, was completely wrong.

Contrails don't persist every day. But, in an area of airspace that happens to be directly overhead a VOR with multiple Jet Airways associated with it....when that region of atmosphere IS conducive to contrails, and persistent contrails, then they can form, and make the angles seen, according to the published Charts, as posted. This is simply logical, and is simple to understand.

It is certainly not that busy of a commercial airspace that all those routes are being used ... let alone being used all within a few hours.

Huh? Do you know how many flights cross the country every day? Just "within a few hours".....a jet at cruise airspeeds will cover between 6 to 8 miles every minute....depending on its groundspeed. They are spaced, if at same altitude and same direction of travel, between 10 to 20 miles apart. Do the math.

In addition, there are dozens and dozens of other city pairs that account for many other direction of travel.

If the planes are commercial ....then you also need to account for cancelled flights, delayed flights and many more annoying problems that happen when you travel on commercial airlines.

Yes, but you are exaggerating the effects (and numbers) of cancellations. SO that *argument* is moot. Delays? Well, that isn't even an issue, since regardless, they WILL eventually fly along the course originally flight planned, even if it's 30 minutes behind normal schedule, or three hours late.

So IMO ..... the probability that 5-8 commercial flights happen to intersect at an exact point is almost Zero.

You seem to be trying to ridicule this....the FACT of the Jet Airway route structure, by inferring that the "5-8 commercial flights" must all cross the VOR in various directions simultaneously!!

That's nonsense. The persistent contrails (the ones that are mistakenly called "chemtrails") last for hours....in those hours many, many, many jets can have passed overhead that single VOR, in various directions, and left the contrails that lingered!!

This is just so simple to understand.......

planefinder.net... ..... look ....and I would bet that plane is not on that website.

I would win that bet. But, PlaneFinder is crap source, and this has been pointed out constantly....but, "chemtrail" believers like it, because then they can point to it as you did. I have seen PlaneFinder miss a LOT of flights that it should be showing. Because, you mentioned another flight tracking site, and in the USA, the one to use is

Flight Aware.

Plenty of flights seen live, here

And here is the zoomed-in "Big Map"

Spending a few boring hours, anyone who wishes can sit there and count the airplanes.

For tracking them visually, in comparison, be sure to remember that there is a time lag, it is "live" but a bit late....6 to 7 minutes behind real-time, approximately.

Being in Utah ...it's easier to spot since we don't have as much commercial traffic....

Wrong. There are plenty of flights transiting the airspace over Utah, every day.

reply to post by dw31243


Thank you con-trail believers. Let me know what flights you find on flightaware.com and post the pictures of the persistent contrails tomorrow.

I just remembered a story from long ago that I thought may be helpful. Pre 9/11 it was fine to go into the flight deck and chat with the pilots, I was heading to Hong Kong one time and sat up there for a while as I was fairly chummy with the pilots that day. Looking out the window I could see we were following another plane and was told that it was 2,000 feet above us, but to me it looked like it was right ahead of us, funny how your mind plays tricks on you when you loose the natural horizon as a reference.

Anyway were cruising along and I can see from the navigation display that we are nearing a intersection and that there are 3 other planes on the radar. Being curious I asked about them and they explained that they were all heading to the same intersection but heading in different directions at different altitudes and spaced... not 100% sure but around 10 NM apart. After a while we pass and I watch the little blips move along as well. It was completely uneventful, and I said to the pilots "wow, I never would have thought there would be so many planes meeting at the same place in the middle of northern Siberia. That was 4 planes in the span of say 10 minutes all heading in different directions in Siberia, so I would be willing to bet that it's possible even in small town USA.

If anyone wants to try another source of aviation knowledge google pprune, create an account and tell your theories over there then report back with the results.

www.youtube.com...

A must see video.

To the debunkers, have fun!






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* Link
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Originally posted by esteay812

As you can see, there is absolutely no contrails, there is not even clouds in the sky. The sky has looked like this all day today. This weather conditions earlier in the week, the day when the original pictures were taken, were nearly identical to the conditions today. The difference is that the contrails were everywhere and did not dissipate. They actually spread out, wider and wider, eventually covering the entire sky and rendering the weather conditions as overcast skies.

Weather conditions at the surface do not reflect on temperature and humidity higher up in the troposphere. To find out that we use soundings produced by a radiosonde (usually attached to a weather balloon). If we have your location and the time and date the images were taken we may be abe to find some soundings produced near by which will show whether conditions higher up were in fact the same, or whether they were different.

You can get soundings here:

weather.uwyo.edu...

(note that all times are in zulu time (UTC) and not local time)

Skies are quite clear this morning, quite a bit of air traffic but only short lived trails being left. This is an example of that, looking out of an East facing upstairs wndow.



The info from the flight tracker I am using is as follows;


Flight number EIN644
Operator Aer Lingus
Speed 455kts.
Origin Dublin
Destination Prague, Ruzyne
Registration EI-DEN
Hex Code 4CA294
Manufacturer Airbus
Type A320
Model A320-214
Serial 2432

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by VeeNews
There have been few clear skies in Michigan lately...
Im beginning to feel like its the norm to not see the sun.

Well, that is entirely normal for this time of year. Do you actually think airplanes are to blame for the seasonal increase in winter overcast skies?

images.fineartamerica.com...
i.telegraph.co.uk...
You'll have to forgive me. I lost my head there.
Both of these pictures are of the same thing. no conspiracy here....
move along sheep.

ATS has many useful tools at our disposal to help identify who is responding and you can easily discern any agenda they may have.

I would recommend that you first look a the date registered. It is written as : day / month / year.

Second each name is a clickable which directs you to the persons profile page. There you can view a history of all replies made, when they were made and what thread they were directed toward.

I recommend that you use these tools, I found the information “eye-opening” and very reveling to a persons agenda.

Originally posted by VeeNews
images.fineartamerica.com...
i.telegraph.co.uk...
You'll have to forgive me. I lost my head there.
Both of these pictures are of the same thing. no conspiracy here....
move along sheep.

They are the same thing in that they are made from water vapor. However they are very different types of cloud. The first being low altitude cumulus, and the second being high altitude aviation induced cirrus created by persistent spreading contrails.

There are many different types of cloud.

reply to post by brokedown


What "eye-opening" information did you find?

This is horrible, people must be dying all over the place, what on earth will the farmers there do now with the coming rain *faint*

Dark again now, no persistent trails all day, though I did get a chance to obtain a new camera, nothing particularly high tech or expensive, but a massive improvement over my other one.

The picture I posted this morning in this thread could be almost anything, but at least with the new one it can be seen, for example, that the plane in the pic below that I took with it is a BA liveried Airbus A321, which should help wih tracking when I get another chance.