Judge William Adams beats daughter for using the Internet

reply to post by FingerMan


Did you seriously just say, "if they want to kill their kid that's their problem?" That is really messed up. But since it's not your problem, people can just keep beating and killing their kids right? Since it's their kids they can do whatever they want with them. Is this seriously your mind frame? It's those kinds of thoughts that makes this world as messed up as it is.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by muzzleflash




That I believe is a travesty and will lead to further erosion in our social environment, perhaps even significantly.

Yeah our social environment is sure improved by child abusers and those that defend them!!

I absolutely side with this being his business. And, it's obvious the girl wanted to get her father back. She was successful. Successful in disobeying, setting up, and murdering her fathers reputation.

fingerman, he murdered his own reputation when he beat her like that and enjoyed it so much!

edit on 2-11-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

I didn't see any actual abuse nor anyone defending child abuse.

If you saw someone beating a child with a belt like that...what would you do. Hypothetically, say it was your child. Be honest...

My bet is that you would put a stop to that kind of abuse of a child. See your disconnect here?

When you put it in a personal context; your obfuscation and attempt at fancy rhetoric falls by the way side.

reply to post by FallenWun
My earlier post clarified that she had been abused as well, and you definitely picked up on some language cues for sure. Mom is probably more horrified than dad about their behavior. As to the people asking why she waited so long to post, he is the top judge. What are the odds of justice against The Judge. I'm sure most people would wait till mid 20's for the counterattack sure to come from a video like this against someone as powerful as The Judge.

Listen. I've been down that road. Keep the Gov't out of families. Period. I thought you guys were all against the Gov't anyways?!?

I'm not for this guy beating his kid. But, it's his kid. It is his kid. If he wants to scar his kid, then that's his perogative. I'm sure he wanted to scar her. She disobeyed him.

Did he go too far? You can not judge that from this one clip alone. In this clip, he did not go to far. To me, he was trying to make her think he was angry. He was the bad actor.

It would be bad if he was beating her like a dude, punching and kicking her. HE USED A FRICKIN BELT!!!

Shot. When I was a kid, I used to get spanked like that by my teachers!!!!

America is so screwed!!!

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by muzzleflash




That I believe is a travesty and will lead to further erosion in our social environment, perhaps even significantly.

Yeah our social environment is sure improved by child abusers and those that defend them!!

I absolutely side with this being his business. And, it's obvious the girl wanted to get her father back. She was successful. Successful in disobeying, setting up, and murdering her fathers reputation.

fingerman, he murdered his own reputation when he beat her like that and enjoyed it so much!

edit on 2-11-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

I didn't see any actual abuse nor anyone defending child abuse.

But I did see a lot of threats and abuse of ATS members who disagree with the anti-parents-rights agenda.

You know the mere fact that you continue to call it the anti-parents-right agenda in itself is an insult to all of us.

It has nothing to do with taking away parents rights, it has to do with instilling GOOD PARENTING into parents. I don't really care if they are your kids, the fact is they are still human beings, and human beings deserve to be treated a certain way. This applies to both parents and children. We all live in this world together, for every kid out there going through bad parenting is another kid that could steal my car, or break into my home. Or any number of things.

So ya they are your kids, but if your kids can affect my life that affects MY LIFE, see where I'm going with this? If people want others to stay out of there business, don't do things that cause reasonable people to go "I should get involved" when they see them happening.

Its like when your at a restaurant and some dude starts yelling at his girlfriend calling her foul names, then someone tells him to calm down and he says "Mind your business" get real.

Originally posted by stephanies-chase
reply to post by FingerMan

 

Did you seriously just say, "if they want to kill their kid that's their problem?" That is really messed up. But since it's not your problem, people can just keep beating and killing their kids right? Since it's their kids they can do whatever they want with them. Is this seriously your mind frame? It's those kinds of thoughts that makes this world as messed up as it is.

Of course that was an exageration.

But, the gov't should stay 100 miles away from legislating child rearing techniques. That's a sure fire way to destroying self identity. My house. My rules!

Using a belt is not going over board. Not by 100 miles!!!

Originally posted by whaaa

If you saw someone beating a child with a belt like that...what would you do. Hypothetically, say it was your child. Be honest...

My bet is that you would put a stop to that kind of abuse of a child. See your disconnect here?

edit on 2-11-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

This reveals your strong bias and unwillingness to adhere to the specifics or facts. To you this is black and white, however reality is somewhere within the gray zone.

Parents have the right to discipline their children, random people do not have the right to discipline other people's children.

You cannot compare the two at all.

Originally posted by FingerMan
Listen. I've been down that road. Keep the Gov't out of families. Period. I thought you guys were all against the Gov't anyways?!?

I'm not for this guy beating his kid. But, it's his kid. It is his kid. If he wants to scar his kid, then that's his perogative. I'm sure he wanted to scar her. She disobeyed him.

Did he go too far? You can not judge that from this one clip alone. In this clip, he did not go to far. To me, he was trying to make her think he was angry. He was the bad actor.

It would be bad if he was beating her like a dude, punching and kicking her. HE USED A FRICKIN BELT!!!

Shot. When I was a kid, I used to get spanked like that by my teachers!!!!

America is so screwed!!!

Negative reinforcement does NOT work.

If psychology were a required high school course then perhaps more people would understand this?

One more thing before I go to bed. I'm willing to bet that this girl and her father wont have much of a relationship once this is all said and done. The story is up on yahoo and she said that she regrets putting the video up because all she wanted was for people to convince her dad to get help because he does this a lot. Either way, I think Mr. belt man is gonna have to retire early. I'm sure his life is turned upside down from this so NOW he really has something to be angry about. Hopefully he will try and remain calm and not beat her to death.

Originally posted by FingerMan

Originally posted by stephanies-chase
reply to post by FingerMan

 

Did you seriously just say, "if they want to kill their kid that's their problem?" That is really messed up. But since it's not your problem, people can just keep beating and killing their kids right? Since it's their kids they can do whatever they want with them. Is this seriously your mind frame? It's those kinds of thoughts that makes this world as messed up as it is.

Of course that was an exageration.

But, the gov't should stay 100 miles away from legislating child rearing techniques. That's a sure fire way to destroying self identity. My house. My rules!

Using a belt is not going over board. Not by 100 miles!!!

The stigma alone that comes with a parent taking a weapon to you is enough to scar plenty of sensitive people. People keep bringing up the past "In my day..." irrelevant, in your day it was different, you all looked at it differently.

Had nothing changed you would have a point, but we do coddle to people now, and this changes the attitude people have towards things. The way you looked at getting hit with a belt is not the same way a child looks at that today. You understand that don't you?

Which brings me back to my recent post, when you do things that can create problems in children, that can create problems in there future, which can create problems in any of our lives. I don't want to pay taxes for people to be in jail. Do you know how many people in jail come from broken homes?

reply to post by MCJustJ


Listen to yourself...

You are going to tell me what are good parenting techniques!!!!???!?!?!

I truly hope the majority of Americans are not that stupid.
Raising your family; dealing with the issues of your bloodline; these things have always been, and always will be sacrosanct! Untouchable!

The very second that some liberal wants to come into my living room and tell me what I can or cannot teach my child, tells me what I can or cannot do as punishment, etc, so on and so forth, means that this country is dead/doomed/over. 1945 Germany wouldn't have been so bad in comparison.

Originally posted by MCJustJ



It has nothing to do with taking away parents rights, it has to do with instilling GOOD PARENTING into parents. I don't really care if they are your kids, the fact is they are still human beings, and human beings deserve to be treated a certain way. This applies to both parents and children. We all live in this world together, for every kid out there going through bad parenting is another kid that could steal my car, or break into my home. Or any number of things.

Yes it does have to do with parents rights, because society passed laws protecting the rights of parents to use corporal punishment to discipline their children. Also it is about civil rights because of the lynch mob forming to enact vigilante retribution outside of the law.

Human beings deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, but out of control children deserve to face punishment for their crimes, just like criminal adults deserve due process and punishment for their crimes.

You cannot assume that a child will steal a car because they were punished through corporal punishment or not, there are some car thieves that received that form of punishment and there are some car thieves that were never punished at all.

Originally posted by FingerMan
reply to post by MCJustJ

 

Listen to yourself...

You are going to tell me what are good parenting techniques!!!!???!?!?!

I truly hope the majority of Americans are not that stupid.
Raising your family; dealing with the issues of your bloodline; these things have always been, and always will be sacrosanct! Untouchable!

The very second that some liberal wants to come into my living room and tell me what I can or cannot teach my child, tells me what I can or cannot do as punishment, etc, so on and so forth, means that this country is dead/doomed/over. 1945 Germany wouldn't have been so bad in comparison.

Ya I am going to because you seem to think there was nothing wrong with that video.

Those methods are a thing of the past, they don't apply anymore. They worked at one point(Some would argue not very well, I'm not here to get into that) they don't anymore. People are not the same as they use to be.

Not to mention, the problem arises by giving this freedom to everyone, some parents are capable of handling punishment, while others are not. By allowing some we have to allow them all, which is what opens up a window of opportunity for bad parenting.

Originally posted by muzzleflash


This reveals your strong bias and unwillingness to adhere to the specifics or facts. To you this is black and white, however reality is somewhere within the gray zone.

.

Show the clip to your kids and get back to me and tell me what shade of gray they see! I dare ya!

Originally posted by FingerMan
reply to post by MCJustJ

 

Listen to yourself...

You are going to tell me what are good parenting techniques!!!!???!?!?!

I truly hope the majority of Americans are not that stupid.
Raising your family; dealing with the issues of your bloodline; these things have always been, and always will be sacrosanct! Untouchable!

The very second that some liberal wants to come into my living room and tell me what I can or cannot teach my child, tells me what I can or cannot do as punishment, etc, so on and so forth, means that this country is dead/doomed/over. 1945 Germany wouldn't have been so bad in comparison.

I do believe you have made a point.

What this really boils down to is that random people believe they have the right to determine how everyone else lives their lives, and believe they have the right to lynch people over emotional-rage-reactions, even when the case is clearly not even an illegal act.

I haven't seen anyone suggest changing the law through applicable legislative means. This is just a witch hunt pure and simple, and it flies against everything this nation was founded upon. Due process, rule by law, and a right to a fair trial for accusations made against them.

I wouldn't say Nazi Germany was better than this, but it is clear we are quickly devolving into mob-rule style totalitarianism.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by MCJustJ



It has nothing to do with taking away parents rights, it has to do with instilling GOOD PARENTING into parents. I don't really care if they are your kids, the fact is they are still human beings, and human beings deserve to be treated a certain way. This applies to both parents and children. We all live in this world together, for every kid out there going through bad parenting is another kid that could steal my car, or break into my home. Or any number of things.

Yes it does have to do with parents rights, because society passed laws protecting the rights of parents to use corporal punishment to discipline their children. Also it is about civil rights because of the lynch mob forming to enact vigilante retribution outside of the law.

Human beings deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, but out of control children deserve to face punishment for their crimes, just like criminal adults deserve due process and punishment for their crimes.

You cannot assume that a child will steal a car because they were punished through corporal punishment or not, there are some car thieves that received that form of punishment and there are some car thieves that were never punished at all.

It protects degrees of punishment. This is what you seem to be ignoring. I don't agree with anyone thinking he should be "lynched" if the girl were still that age I wouldn't even say take her away. Just teach him what hes doing wrong.

Saying shes an out of control child is just absurd, perhaps she could have been but based on what we knew about her that is just a baseless statement.

And I'm not assuming a child will steal my car because of punishment, my point is those are signs of a broken home, statistics tell us many people from broken homes at some point in time end up involved in crime and things of that nature. The longer we allow things like that to go on, the more at risk a person is.

A home without punishment is just as broken of a home as one with extreme punishment. There is a middle ground and it seems like you and the parents in that video just don't realize that. Which is why you deem it acceptable.

Well. Guess I've been trolled!

Whoever it is I'm debating must either: not be a US citizen, immature/young without experience, a total loon, or more likely a TROLL

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by muzzleflash


This reveals your strong bias and unwillingness to adhere to the specifics or facts. To you this is black and white, however reality is somewhere within the gray zone.

.

Show the clip to your kids and get back to me and tell me what shade of gray they see! I dare ya!

What does this have to do with my young children's opinion?

They are in bed right now anyways, as they should be.

How does this keep devolving into personal insinuations about my family?

Last I checked this thread was called "Judge William Adams beats daughter for using the Internet", rather than "Muzzleflash's person and family are in question".

More parents should have the 'fear of youtube'(tm) put in them. The only capital people care about these days is public capital, aka what your friends and society think of you, and youtube goes right to the core of that.

Originally posted by jewdiful
I'm watching the video now... this dude is hitting her in ANGER. I've taken several child development psychology courses (and keep up on the research and statistics surrounding these and similar issues) and there are a few common understandings regarding corporal punishment. First of all, it differs from abuse. Corporal punishment should given with the sole intention of discipline, if it's not, it's probably physical abuse or bordering on such.

Also, it's understood that physical discipline should be implemented only when the goal of its use is to prevent further misbehavior by the child. Why else would it be used, you ask? Well, take this video for instance. Clearly the father is acting out of rage, an egregious amount actually considering the nature of the girl's "crime." Even if an expert is an advocate for corporal punishment, you'd be hard pressed to find one (of reputable scholarship, anyway) that would approve of a physical punishment being administered by an angry parent. Corporal punishment should ONLY be used when the parent is of a neutral, objective mindset. If they're angry, they need to wait until they've calmed down. If they're a rageaholic, they should NEVER be the parent to administer discipline to the child. It mucks and muddles things up way too much.

Furthermore, corporal punishment is successful (again, statistics are divided as to whether it's ever really "successful" in terms of preventing future misbehavior) only when the least amount of force necessary ("necessary" being a debatable concept here) is used. A swat on the butt for a kid who gets too close to the road, for example. A two-year-old, mind you.

If the parents' intention sole intention of introducing corporal punishment as a behavior deterrent is the PREVENTION of further misbehavior, WITHOUT causing unnecessary psychological and physical trauma to the child, then they MUST administer it without anger and in parallel with the severity of the child's act. In this case? Take the kid's computer away. If not downloading illegally is a rule in someone's home, and the child breaks that rule, beating them two dozen times with a belt is a completely inappropriate punishment.

My parents spanked me when I was a toddler for doing dangerous things (playing with matches, etc). THIS IS DIFFERENT. Personally, I find corporal punishment itself to be lazy parenting. Wtf does a kid learn from it? Nothing, except to hate and fear their parents.

I totally agree. As I said before, I was raised by a single mom, this was the 80's and the few spankings I got (which after watching this video, were like a butterfly sneezing on my backside..) were usually not a kneejerk reaction from my mother, but rather an appropriate response. What comes to mind, for instance, my brother and his best friend were talking on the street and for some stupid reason, I did a cartwheel between them with my roller skates on. I was clearly of the age to know better, and I ended up giving my brother's friend a very serious black eye. My mom took me aside and gave me a good swat for it and had me apologize, as well as tell the kid to tell HIS mother that I had been punished. I honestly cannot recall a time where at any point, my mother, out of pure rage, decided to just wail on me. She always did her best to make the punishment fit the crime. If I dumped all my toys out and trashed the room, then was I spanked? Nope. I had to pick up my toys AND the rest of the room. If I disappeared for hours on end and my frantic mom had to come looking for me in the neighborhood because I "forgot" to check in, then my bike was taken away for a bit.

This video is clearly not appropriate punishment for the crime. The big bully standing there screaming at her to turn over..and obviously she doesn't want to..it makes me want to vomit. He wants to make her SUBMIT to his authority in a cruel and violent manner, and has nothing to do with the nature of the crime. Makes me want to cry.

Gonna go give my kids an extra hug.