mass grave of 2,000 ethnic Germans in Polish town

Judaism is a religion, not a race.
~FACT~ I knew someone who grew up in that war.
~FACT~ Germans who were Jews were prosecuted and murdered.
~FACT~ Germans who were not Jews suffered anyway, most people starved or had to steal food.
~FACT~ Monetary value changed often, even multiple times a day... the devaluation of the monetary system caused people to starve.
~FACT~ Families were torn apart because of religious insanity.
~FACT~ Families were also torn apart over Aryan ideals.
~FACT~ Laws were passed to make it illegal to speak to even your relatives if they did not fit into the ideal.
~FACT~ Brother was turned against brother, son was turned against mother... entire families were torn asunder!

FOR WHAT? One man's ideas!!!

~What is NOT fact is propaganda... DENY IGNORANCE~

reply to post by spoor

The Jews, also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East.

source

reply to post by Invariance


Thank you for acknowledging that it was not just pure blood Jews that died. It was a war, everybody died.

Originally posted by blueorder

disgusting elevation of the death of a child, because he/she was Jewish, over the death of a child who was Christian/atheist/Polish/German (whatever).

Trying to elevate victim over the possible name ofa "camp" is also despicable and I doubt when the Jewish child was breathing his last breath he/she felt any more the victim than a non Jewish child breathing his last.


NO ELEVATION OF VICTIMHOOD FOR ME!

Pardon?

You clearly have no knowlege of the subject. Once again, throwing in the "mines bigger argument", and forgetting the difference between concentration camp and extermination camp.

When Poles, Russians, and others go to concentration camps (where death is a possibility), Jews go for immediate processing and extermination.

Of course, im sure that doesnt matter to you, because you are obviously of such moral rigour that the fate of dead jews is equal to that of dead poles, despite the multiple millions more jews that were systematically slaughtered.

You are an apologist, and call me disgusting? check yourself. I made it clear that all death is significant, but to equate Jewish suffering with that of any other group of people during WWII is moronic.

In fact, equating polish and Jewish suffering is EXACTLY what Generalisimo Stalin's murderous regime set out to do in the post war period. And as we now know, that was a sick and subversive manipulation of the truth designed to force the forgetting of the Jewish plight.... even though more then twice as many Jews dies as Poles...

At auschwitz, on the memorial plaques, the polish figures were doubled to match the jewish figures, and the identity of the "jews" was ignored in favour of nationalities, all in the name of forcible forgetting. Exactly the type of equation that you seem to think is so fair.

So you can launch ad-homenim attacks all you want, but that doesnt change the fact that your wrong. The Jews certainly do have a special place in Holocaust history, regardless of whether or not you hate them.

reply to post by purplemer


Star and Flag!
I am not a holocaust denier per se, I however am a history denier.
Many of the folks who can tell the story were put in a ditch for a reason.
And it is fact that the victors write the history.
It looks as if someone did not like a large group of Germans.
Someday maybe there will be a way of transferring memories.

reply to post by Invariance


Thank you for your post its nice to see facts coming from a different perspective...

reply to post by Invariance


Most of the jews I know don't practice judism but still call themselves Jews. I consider Jews a race so do alot of Jews. Thats why they make it a point to not interbreed with the gentiles as much as possible. I also think what we know of the holocaust today is a huge lie. Its one of the only things you can't discuss in some countries or you go to prision. I can deny anything else .. except that one event surrounding WWII. Something is really wierd about that. Truth fears no investigation.

Originally posted by ClydeFrog42

Pardon?

just re read it, the post remains, just a tip for the future.

You clearly have no knowlege of the subject.

arrogant nonsense, and quite ironic

Once again, throwing in the "mines bigger argument", and forgetting the difference between concentration camp and extermination camp.

You don't even understand what you are typing- it is YOU who is doing the "mine is bigger argument", NOT ME, I am doing the opposite, you are saying YOUR chose victim group is more important.

When Poles, Russians, and others go to concentration camps (where death is a possibility), Jews go for immediate processing and extermination.

Well not all Jews did go for immediate processing and extermination, or else how did they find any survivors, and MANY aspects and events in war were for the IMMEDIATE extermination of the recipients, whether it was Russians killing german and polish civilians, British planes firebombing residential areas, whatever- but you stick with your "MY VICTIM IS BIGGER ARGUMENT" yeah.

Of course, im sure that doesnt matter to you, because you are obviously of such moral rigour that the fate of dead jews is equal to that of dead poles, despite the multiple millions more jews that were systematically slaughtered.

This makes no sense, I am the bad person because all deaths are equal to me?!?!? Do you understand the nonsense you type- "multiple millions more jews that were systematically slaughtered"- wise up, most victims were non Jews and every killing was "systematic", you are just indulging in semitic supremacy

You are an apologist, and call me disgusting? check yourself. I made it clear that all death is significant, but to equate Jewish suffering with that of any other group of people during WWII is moronic.

"APOLOGIST" for what, you make no sense yet again.

And yes, you are disgusting for elevating the death of a jewish kid over the death of a non jewish kid- that is beyond moronic SICK SICK SICK!

In fact, equating polish and Jewish suffering is EXACTLY what Generalisimo Stalin's murderous regime set out to do in the post war period. And as we now know, that was a sick and subversive manipulation of the truth designed to force the forgetting of the Jewish plight.... even though more then twice as many Jews dies as Poles..

I hate Stalin so go throw that meaningless insult at someone else.

There you go with the "mine is bigger argument again"

Over 5 million Polish civilians were killed during the War which is approx the SAME number of Jewish deaths so you know absoloutely NOTHING about the subject. In any event, every single death is equal, and to elevate one over another is sick

.

At auschwitz, on the memorial plaques, the polish figures were doubled to match the jewish figures, and the identity of the "jews" was ignored in favour of nationalities, all in the name of forcible forgetting. Exactly the type of equation that you seem to think is so fair.

The figures of Polish civilian deaths is over 5 million and well established, even though a semitic supremacist such as yourself can't understand or chooses to ignore it- I wouldn't care if it was 1 million, every single killing is the SAME!

So you can launch ad-homenim attacks all you want, but that doesnt change the fact that your wrong. The Jews certainly do have a special place in Holocaust history, regardless of whether or not you hate them.

edit on 31-10-2011 by ClydeFrog42 because: (no reason given)

Your argument is an incoherent mess and they have no special death, like I say, NO ELEVATION OF VICTIMS for me, or for anyone with reason and who does not believe in supremacy!

reply to post by blueorder


Lol. Once again, clearly you have no idea what your talking about. There is no substance to your argument, and clearly you lack the fundamentals to understand mine.

Hard to maintain a one sided argument. The victims were not equal, and that will remain true regardless of your confrontational attitude.

I'm not Jewish, so i don't see how "mines bigger" applies to me... Fortunately, the FACTS are more then enough verification for me. So, feel free to cling to the empty, idealized, "all suffering was equal" argument.

by the way, Apologists are the ones who make apologies for polish perpetration and equation of victimhood before, during and after WWII, and support the pre-1991, soviet-perpetuated idea that ethnic Poles didn't maim and slaughter Polish-Jews, and actively worked to repress the fact that jews were the primary target of mass extermination in the Bloodlands.

Yes, the primary target. For a large number of reasons. Which are all extremely and extensively verified in diaries, memoirs, newspaper clippings, military reports, books, museums, and by the people who still remember the events of those periods.

So you can cry, and assume some sort of moral imperative, but your wrong, plain and simple,

The difference between imprisonment and extermination might not matter to you, but i bet that if any of those dead jews had an opportunity to speak, they would say differently. As would their children.

reply to post by blueorder


by the way, your wrong about the polish death toll. Its 3 million. and thats including 1.9 million civilians. rather then.. young know... between 6 (low figure) and 12 (high figure) million European jewish CIVILIANS.

And, your calling me a semetic? Figures. How about a realist, or... someone who actually knows what their talking about?



So... yes... my argument is muddled. Check yourself, again.

And yes, you are disgusting for elevating the death of a jewish kid over the death of a non jewish kid- that is beyond moronic SICK SICK SICK!

ahaha. Just wanted to throw that in there for comic relief. spazz much? This isnt about each individual death. Yes, death is bad, great point! but thats not relevant to the argument...

Actually I thought this crap-discussion would end.....guess it didnt.

There are still hunderds of holocaust survivers alive today, ask them for it and I bet they'll show you the number on their arm.
There is the jewish museum in berlin. They have disturbing pictures on display, of people hanging from lanterns with signs around their neck saying " I am a dirty jew who tried to take away german culture"

Let me guess...these pictures were made after WWII for conspiratory reasons, and the survivors tattooed their arms themselves so people feel sorry right?

Come down here to germany and visit a concentration camp, I doubt you'd all be speaking the way you are if you did. This is not some subject like ufos, the holocaust ist FACT. Historically Proven. Eye witnessed.
Have you ever seen the pictures of auschwitz when the allied arrived? piles of bodies, of clothes, shoes, toys.

Your mass grave, was either a group of executed german jews, OR a group of captivated and executed Nazis. Gruesom find, yet not spectacular. Occurs every few years..
PS: yes, thats what certain countries would tend to do with nazis, as the nazis would have done worse to you..

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


Yes there are tons of holocaust survivors who have stories and its very profitable. Noone denies there were camps, noone denies that people died. Supply lines were cut, people died of typhus. I've seen no proof that Jews were targeted for extermination. Some of these "gas chambers" are laughable. Crazy windows, Crazy doors, Only one side gets to study the "holocaust" if you are someone who studies and comes up with another opinion, you get thrown in prison and called nasty names. Whats the problem here? Why can't you study this event?

Other stories by survivors: Lampshades and soap made out of Jew skin.

Originally posted by ClydeFrog42


When Poles, Russians, and others go to concentration camps (where death is a possibility), Jews go for immediate processing and extermination.

look up Jasenovac, and understand how wrong you are.

I cant believe that anyone would claim that only Jews were sent to death camps in WW2. Its beyond ridiculous.

reply to post by mayabong


there is enough evidence for the genocide....you choose to ignore it. The nazi's race ideology is the best damn proof, study that. Do you seriously think that poeple would accuse germany of genocide just to discredit them for all ages?? .....not really...

Newsflash: It happened. All of it. Every gruesom little detail. The 3rd army was so very terrorized of what they saw in Buchenwald, that they ordered the millitary police to lead more than 1000 germans (from a city nearby) through the concentration camp to show them what the nazid did, as the civillians were not informed about concetration camps and similar.

A entire historical chronology of the holocaust 1933-1945 www.holocaust-chronologie.de...

Read the entire thing, there is no conspiracy to be found in this subject...
The only REAL Conspiracy in WWII was how the USA stole german technology, development, and science and denied its german origin.

Without "nazi" scientists the USA would not posess:


- Stealth technology

U-480

- B-series Bombers

Horton-229

- Nukes

nazi nukes

Germany's Bomb

- Moonlanding

Werner von Braun

- The Sciences as they are today

Manfred von Ardenne

Werner Heisenberg

just to name a few..
If you want a conspiracy, take a look at the things.

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


Bull#, just saying something happened over and over again doesn't make it true. Please try that on someone else please. I am a historian, I look at all sides without any emotional attachment. You seem to be attached to the Jew side without much evidence and lots of emotions.

I've seen lots of "holocaust denial" information from jews themselves, and tend to lean that way. Sorry bud.

reply to post by zvezdar


...I am not wrong

You are misinterpreting my words. Of course, Slavs were executed in massive amounts, homosexuals, gypsies, communists... the list goes on.

But, the fact stands, that Jews were by far the primary target. disproportionately represented in the ranks of those in the death camps. not to mention that millions were killed by armed squads, no camps required. There was no hope for a jew, but there WAS hope for the rest. that is the fundamental difference, discrepancies aside...

reply to post by mayabong


Do you not believe that germany as a nation would stand up against those claims if they were not true?
Trust me, we'd be the first, as we still struggle with our past, and our reputation to this day. There is not a single word written in german history that would point to the holocaust as a hoax. Unfortunately its the opposite case.

These "Holohoax" theories originate in neo nazi propaganda from the united states. Not a single person outside the USA gives that pile-of-crap-idea a single thought.
The Holocaust is actual fact. Not UFO type of fact, but ACTUAL FACT.

I do not need to prove known facts, you are the historian setting up a theory, you know how it works....YOU need to PROVE ME WRONG.

Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery

 

Bull#, just saying something happened over and over again doesn't make it true. Please try that on someone else please. I am a historian, I look at all sides without any emotional attachment. You seem to be attached to the Jew side without much evidence and lots of emotions.

I've seen lots of "holocaust denial" information from jews themselves, and tend to lean that way. Sorry bud.

I am also a historian. And I refuse to believe that you are a historian. If you were, you would have more then familiarized yourself with the massive amounts of literature, and even more infinitely massive amounts of primary source documents that leave no doubts about what happened only 60 years ago.

You can say all day that you don't believe history, but that doesn't make it true. History has in its favour unprecedented amounts of evidence against which there is no concrete argument.

What can you bring to the table...

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


I agree.

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


No counter arguement is allowed to be brought to the table because you can be thrown in Jail. Like I said some of those gas chambers are laughable. No blue stains on the walls from Zyclon B... big windows, .. doors that lock from the inside. Looks like your history has an emotional attachment involved. People also tell me that there is undeniable proof that jesus was around. Still waiting on that.

You think its ok to be thrown in Jail for having a different opinion about an event that happened like 70 years ago?