If Everybody Had a Gun.....

Originally posted by student777

The strange thing is, this is how things were in the old west. People got shot all the time. Very few people lived to old age. The next guy tends to fear the crook who has become good with a gun. Whole towns backed down to gun fighters.

Originally posted by nh_ee


We learned what a gun obsessed society was like in the Wild Wild West....and hence as to the name.

Guns don't necessarily kill people, but stupid people do...

That is a complete myth. The whole "wild west" image is a Hollywood fabrication.

wild west myths

It would be grate if weapons wear never invented. But they exist and because of that I think its better that people have them because of people that will miss use them. In the society you talk about we are given weapons at birth and told how to use them. I do not think we should be given a gun at birth but I do think that we need to be teaching our kids at a early age on when to use them and when not to use them. When you are younger your morals are molded.

I have notice allot of threads coming out of the UK about hatred for guns. There had to have been a massive brain wash campaign to clean the streets in the UK. You cannot change history guns will all ways exist, bad men will all ways own guns witch is why good men need to own them to.

If we get into a SHTF situation the only people with guns are going to be the people that broke the law to get them and most likely do not have much of a moral ground. Your screwed then, those people will rape your family and take what you own. Its up to you to protect your family. In America we need guns, if the citizens did not own guns then our government would take far more advantage of us then they do now.

History is fact.
England in the old days... every man carried a gun. Several in fact. Coach guns, pocket guns and holster guns.
Then only the semi-wealthy and wealthy could afford guns.

The American west was settled with guns. Rifles, pistols.

The crime rate was lower, because the criminals were killed by the people they were trying to rob. Prisons were not full of robbers, the crooks were dead.

So if you really would like to see what a society would be like, pick up a history book. Not ask ATS.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Everyone having a gun and weapons training from a young age is different than just giving everyone a gun now.

Back when schools still had rifle teams and firearms education was part of the regular curriculum there were no Columbines. It wasnt until firearms became demonized in popular culture and displayed as tools of power and prestige that idiots started shooting each other left and right.

Though just giving every thug idiot a gun as they are now without a complete change of character would be messy. At least in the short term. In the long run as firearms once again become the norm ignorance would fade.

Prohibition never works. Not for alcohol, drugs, prostitution, guns or whatever. It never works. Never has and never will. The very concept of prohibition flies in the face of human nature.

There wear no Columbines before mkultra

I am an American and I believe it is my right to own a gun. I have a right to defend myself, my family and provide for my family at will. This is what so many American soldiers supposedly died to protect.

With that said........If someone were to go crazy and go on some sort of rampage then it is YOUR right to defend yourselves and take the idiot down in any means necessary.

Because there are people who are out there that would do these crazy acts for whatever there reasons. Some people and government officials think they should take everybody's rights away to help protect those who cannot or will not defend themselves against such an attack.

Truth is these kinds of attacks are going to happen whether we are prepared for them or not. I will vote all day in favor of guns because it is in my best interest and my families best interest to at least try to be prepared.

The right to protect ourselves to me goes above the laws of man. Its instinctual or at least........it should be.

First, guns are no more "evil" than a hammer or a wrench. To say different is just silly.

Robert Heinlein said, "An armed society is a polite society". I think he was right.

I live in south Florida where pretty much anyone who wants a gun already has one. As a general rule people don't go around shooting each other at random or over petty disputes. Legal gun owners are in fact some of the most law abiding citizens in the country. I've carried regularly, if not daily, for over 20 years. If I'm armed I go out of my way to avoid trouble not looking for it. My gun is to protect my, and my family's, life. That is the only time you will know I'm carrying. I know you can't understand this as a British subject but that's your loss not mine.

Gun ban in UK leads to skyrocketing crime rate. In reality, the English approach has not reduced violent crime. Instead it has left law-abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals who are confident that their victims have neither the means nor the legal right to resist them. Imitating this model would be a public safety disaster for the United States.
Here is just one article but there is evidence everywhere that this does not work...reason.com...

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I just want to emphasise early on in this thread, this is not about my views on gun control I am just looking to start up some discussion that isn’t about OWS or Ron Paul. The question I have proposed is entirely hypothetical but i think interesting, what would the world be like if every person on the planet was armed and prepared to shot if they had to. How different would the world and humanity be if the gun was a intrinsic part of being human.

Look at Switzerland, and its crime rate, the lowest in the world, for an answer. Every male is armed and trained. The government even furnishes ammunition.

Originally posted by whatsinaname

ed: on a side note, the UK does have guns, just less and more controls, if they we're legal, i'd grab one of those safari tranq rifles and save myself the effort of having to look a human being in the eye and blow their head off.

edit on 18/10/2011 by whatsinaname because: (no reason given)

Until they sue you for some trumped up injury that an ambulance chaser talked them into suing you over, and could possibly win. In a home invasion, shoot to kill, dead men do not have a side of the story.

reply to post by billy197300


I agree, the maturity level is a must. My 8 year old is very mature, already hunts with a compound bow, and is very well educated and respectful of the power a weapon has......By no means would she be allowed however to just walk around with it! However she is also a green belt in Isshinryu and is learning other skills of self defense since she was 4 yrs old.

You are also more careful if raised around it as a natural way of life and understand that it causes death,( example being a duck, turkey or white tail killed and then served for dinner)

Education is a MUST!

Originally posted by 8ILlBILl8
It would be grate if weapons wear never invented.

If not for weapons, none of us would probably be here.
Weapons have been around from the dawn of time, they were first used to get food. Without those weapons, they would have starved to death and we would have never existed. A weapon is a weapon, they have just evolved over the years.

part of me wants to say yes everyone should have the right to own a gun, if only for the fact that I would like to see how our species would function without so many rules, that for lack of a better term, babysit us, but that is just the part of me that thinks no one will ever grow up (evolve civilization) while they are constantly babysit (controlled by many rules)

very abstract I know.... but I wonder how civilized we as a species would be without so many restrictions, how civilized are we if we are controlled by so so many rules???, are these rules the only thing holding our civilization together?? how civilized are we??

on a different note.....I don't buy the "if everyone had guns we would all kill each other" argument...what would the criminal system collapse too??, would it no longer be a crime to use a weapon on someone doesn't make much sense

a gun is like a honey bee stinger you use it once an you had better have a DAMN good reason to use it because it would change your life forever (jail, losing said privileged or both) or like the honey bee die

I don't know. I think everyone should have the right to have a gun and I have guns. There have been times when I am glad that I DIDN'T have a gun though, I am sure my ex-wife would not be around right now if I had a gun and a few beers about 5 years ago.......soooooooo maybe it's not always such a good thing lol.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
Shoot 'em dead. Everyone says that when your being mug theres no time to pull out a gun. I've seen loads of examples where thats not true.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Eh ? In the story that you linked to, the assailant didn't have a gun.

The point is that if everybody had a gun, then criminals would just change their modus operandi, and - with the element of surprise in their favour - would always have a gun pointed towards their victim before he even had a chance to draw.

Of course, on the internet, all gun owners have the nimbleness, dexterity and speed of thought of a top martial artist, and can shoot an apple off a boy's head from 500 yards, but we all know that in the real world there are very few internet commandos.

In the real world, when a robber and his mates demand money from someone who has a gun pressed against his head, then the survival mechanism kicks in and the victim will hand over the money 99 times out of 100.

Originally posted by schuyler
Look at Switzerland, and its crime rate, the lowest in the world, for an answer. Every male is armed and trained. The government even furnishes ammunition.

Firstly, you can't accurately compare crime rates between different countries, because of the variances in what constitutes crimes in each country, the differing level of severity that each country treats offences and the variations in the way that crimes are reported, recorded and collated.

Secondly, Switzerland doesn't have an army, so the men who openly carry guns are largely those who are going through military service. Unless people are en route to some form of military related activity, then Swiss people do not carry guns in public.

Thirdly, Switzerland has strict gun controls when you are not undergoing military service. Unlike in some countries, the argument ''coz it says I can here own a gern in the Carntstitooshun'' is not a valid argument for a civilian to own a gun in Switzerland. You have to be granted a permit to legally own a firearm, and this requires the potential gun-owner to actually state a valid reason why he requires the firearm, and the reason to be accepted by the permit issuing body.

Fourthly, you are 5 times more likely to murdered by firearm in Switzerland than the UK.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
Oh come on. If a person is a criminal and or wants to behave lawlessly they will use a piece of wood or pipe or a rock to do their evil deeds.

You are missing two important points:

1. How many people could you kill or maim with a piece of wood before being overpowered ?

2. In many cases, guns are the catalyst for turning a minor crime into a serious crime, because they give the person holding them a unrealistic sense of power and are an easy, impersonal way to attack someone.

Originally posted by kwell
Gun ban in UK leads to skyrocketing crime rate. In reality, the English approach has not reduced violent crime.

Nonsense, the crime rate is falling in the UK. While that's not necessarily related to a ban on guns, it's just plain false to say that the UK crime rate led to a ''skyrocketing'' crime rate.

The truth of the matter is that even before the handgun ban, most Britons weren't interested in owning guns, because - to put it bluntly - we're not a bunch of paranoid, fearful pussies who think there's a gun-toting maniac around every corner.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


That is a pathetic attempt at criticism. See lots of people in the US still hunt and get to keep their meat within the legal seasonal limits. See we still have some pretty large swaths of wilderness and with that comes critters that will make the meal of the weak and defenseless. Bobcats, bears, coyote, and the coy dog. A gun is also freedom from the dependence on store bought meat. Worse case I can go someplace and try and acquire my own food without all those lovely growth hormones and such they put into domestic stock. Of all the animal kingdom, man didnt get claws and fangs we made our own. Some may wish to be herd others would prefer to be the apex predator.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I'm honestly not sure you really have to ponder too much when you can look at history as a guide. Parts of the US were that way some of its history. Read some stuff on what day to day life, society and crime was like in early America for the average person. Start about 100 years ago and work your way back.

One thing mentioned in the thread, on the whole it does seem people were usually more polite back in those days.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Your title your thread "If Everybody Had a Gun...", and you say in the OP that you are anti gun ownership, and that guns are "inherently evil". Yet it's not about "gun control"...?

Really? OK, I'll buy that...

If everybody had a gun. Hmmm... Well, during the Westward expansion in the 18th and 19th centuries, nearly everyone had, if not in hand, certainly access to a firearm of some sort. Then, like now, you had people who thought that, because they had a gun, they were "big and bad"... But generally speaking, those folks ran into people who really were "big and bad". Boot Hills are filled with "big and bad" who ran into those who were.

There is a truism that runs something like this, "an armed populous is a polite populous.". In an armed society one has to be careful about picking someone to bully. The "victim" might not be the easy mark he/she first appears to be... A mistake like that could be...painful.

Back to your statement that "guns are inherently evil"...

Guns are tools. Nothing more, or less. It's the user that defines the "evil" not the tool. If I save a life with a gun, is the gun still "evil"? Bit of a problem there, is there not?

Utopia would be a world with out weapons. But "utopia" doesn't exist. Even Eden had a serpent.