Controversial Therapy for Pre-Teen Transgender Patient Raises Questions

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
Some things should just be left to God. As one of my favorite writers and philosophers once said "Fools will go where even Angels fear to tread." ~ Alexander Pope

God who?

"I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is #ed up." ~ George Carlin.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by Annee

 

If you would have read my words more closely you would have discovered that I wrote "Everything we DO is a choice." I did not write "who we are is a choice" which you seem to think I did. I'm not going to argue the point of whether people are born homosexual or not because well it's off topic. But the freedom of choice is something that is undeniable and self-evident in all of us.

I did not mistake what you said. Many have used that Choice twist you are attempting - - - including trying to sluff off born homosexual as off topic. Not Happening.

Homosexuality is not a Choice or a behavior.

Behavior is a choice. A gay person can choose to live a lie as a straight person. That would be a choice.

Being gay is not.
.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


Actually, no, HRT and SRS does change you to the very core. It's a difficult process to deal with, and you are no longer a man when it's complete. The only remnant of manhood is buried so deep, that it doesn't matter. That's why people that are born with or go through naturally occurring hormone changes, will change in both appearance and mental composition. We're not men, we're not the same as you, and you won't convince me that we are.

If you're truly a transgendered person, transition is something that completes you. It was supposed to be the way it is made, all along. The fact is that we don't know enough about developing fetus' and the modern chemical imbalances that are now possible, to say that we were intended to be born a "man" at all.

Congratulations to the mothers of this girl. They have acted quickly and have potentially stopped this child from living a life of hell in adult years. Delaying puberty is of no detriment to the child and with psychological assessments and care the child will go on to have a very fulfilling life. This decision will have been heartbreaking for the parents and being in a lesbian relationship myself with a son I have been disgusted with some of the Neanderthal comments made regarding same sex relationships and children.

Male bashing is of no more occurrence than that in same sex relationships and although quoting accurate numbers here is hard as no survey has been done i would haphazard a guess that 9/10 women say something detrimental about men weekly or at least think it. Just as men say and do things detrimental towards women.

Its about time society grew up and accepted the broad spectrum off people out there. Hide behind religion and hide behind what you believe to be morally right but more often than not this is all nothing but personal opinion that to be honest no one really cares about.

There are no religious grounds to say this is wrong and it is most certainly not child abuse. what would be more abusive would be to ignore the child and leave said child to continue to become more male whilst maintaining a female identity. That would more than likely cause more mental anguish and would also potentially lead the child to suicide attempts.

The Transgender, Transsexual Suicide rate is 31%. Over 50% have had one suicide attempt by age 20

Sometimes the mentality of users on here and other websites really does bring into question the education system and parenting skills of those who have gone before.

I was born inter-sexed and forced to be brought up as male until i was able to undo what was done to me at birth. Did my parents have the right to force me through the torturous years that have gone before me? is that child abuse?

All in All if your uneducated on the subject keep your opinions to yourself, you make yourself look like a mentally challenged member of society and are actually a complete disgrace.

If you need further information before making a sound judgement do the research, talk to people and become informed otherwise the point of you being on Above Top Secret is pointless... Think about deny ignorance and search for truth is the website statement. Not gay bash, and make stupid remarks on subjects you know nothing about.

reply to post by Ashleigholivia


That as may be, but how can you be so sure that this kid in question is a transgender. I mean can you say that your 100% right on this issue, what I am saying is what if she changes her mind latter on when she is a little grown up, and wants to go back to being male. And don't get me started on putting people on drugs much less a kid, drugs should never be taken unless absolutely 100% sure that there willing to go trough all that. I mean I personally don't care if he becomes a she or vice versa, after all its there life.

But like I said, how can you all be so sure that this is the right path the kid should take. After all kids do lots of things, and want to be lots of things when that age, and there is a level of influence no matter who you are or what your life is like, or your lifestyle is like, on some levels it will rub off on the kid caught within it all. Though all are different to different levels, but at the end there is a lot of emulating going on just for the sake of being alike, or liked, just to be what your parents want to see, it can even be interpreted as monkey see monkey do.

If anything what makes people so sure that this can't in no way be an opposite case. Then the ones they are used to, or know, for you transgender people or whomever. ie kid grows up in normal like family, kid is born one gender, kid does not feel like he or she is the gender he or she was born into by nature. Kid goes trough trials and tribulation, an eventually comes to the being he or she is, no matter the consequences.

Basically what i am saying is what if its opposite that, this kid could changes his mind latter on in life, and especially when out in the greater world? And out of the nest to sort of say. Such a thing can happen, especially concerning nature, god, and human consciousness, things have a way of changing unexpectedly.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Ashleigholivia

 

That as may be, but how can you be so sure that this kid in question is a transgender. I mean can you say that your 100% right on this issue, what I am saying is what if she changes her mind latter on when she is a little grown up, and wants to go back to being male. And don't get me started on putting people on drugs much less a kid, drugs should never be taken unless absolutely 100% sure that there willing to go trough all that. I mean I personally don't care if he becomes a she or vice versa, after all its there life.

But like I said, how can you all be so sure that this is the right path the kid should take. After all kids do lots of things, and want to be lots of things when that age, and there is a level of influence no matter who you are or what your life is like, or your lifestyle is like, on some levels it will rub off on the kid caught within it all. Though all are different to different levels, but at the end there is a lot of emulating going on just for the sake of being alike, or liked, just to be what your parents want to see, it can even be interpreted as monkey see monkey do.

If anything what makes people so sure that this can't in no way be an opposite case. Then the ones they are used to, or know, for you transgender people or whomever. ie kid grows up in normal like family, kid is born one gender, kid does not feel like he or she is the gender he or she was born into by nature. Kid goes trough trials and tribulation, an eventually comes to the being he or she is, no matter the consequences.

Basically what i am saying is what if its opposite that, this kid could changes his mind latter on in life, and especially when out in the greater world? And out of the nest to sort of say. Such a thing can happen, especially concerning nature, god, and human consciousness, things have a way of changing unexpectedly.

edit on 20-10-2011 by galadofwarthethird because: (no reason given)

Did I not make my point clear?

By delaying that's right DELAYING puberty they have left the options open to the child and have given time for further evaluation to take place. Did you amongst others fail to read what drugs have been prescribed?

did you hear about the trans-species dolphin that was a transsexual whale trapped in a dolphins body?

Or the Male to female transsexual who cross dresses as a man?

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Your ignorance prevails you completely

At no point did I say I was right only that the parents have acted in the child's best interest. your response was weak and again had no real significance to this thread.

Is it that hard to find studies and information on subjects before posting responses to sensitive subjects.

seriously the only reason that this is getting any serious attention is because of the parents and it is proven that same sex couples have no detriment on a child's upbringing.

some studies even suggest that same sex couple children actually perform better through school and become more balanced human beings....

judging by your response and others on here the more same sex couples the better...

reply to post by Ashleigholivia


You can not delay a natural process without consequences. By delaying puberty using drugs it will just lead to other problems. Why don't you just say it, that there delaying the natural order of puberty for there own purposes and hopefully desired effects.

did you hear about the trans-species dolphin that was a transsexual whale trapped in a dolphins body?

I have no clue what wales and dolphins have to do with this, but no I have not heard of it.

Or the Male to female transsexual who cross dresses as a man?

I have heard and seen them, what is your point?

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Ashleigholivia

 

You can not delay a natural process without consequences. By delaying puberty using drugs it will just lead to other problems. Why don't you just say it, that there delaying the natural order of puberty for there own purposes and hopefully desired effects.

did you hear about the trans-species dolphin that was a transsexual whale trapped in a dolphins body?

I have no clue what wales and dolphins have to do with this, but no I have not heard of it.

Or the Male to female transsexual who cross dresses as a man?

I have heard and seen them, what is your point?

The drugs are of no consequence to the child's health.

This response of yours will of course show the people with a higher intelligence just how challenged you actually are.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


the oxygen you breathe is wasted.

Deny ignorance so that means I can actually now deny you any intelligent conversation.

reply to post by Ashleigholivia


You lie.

At no point did I say I was right only that the parents have acted in the child's best interest. your response was weak and again had no real significance to this thread.

You expect me to believe that this is the whole story, how about this! The parents also responded in there best interest, like all parents have a habit of doing no matter who they are. What now should I expect that all parents even if they have good intent, that intent it will not lead to bad and biased choices.

seriously the only reason that this is getting any serious attention is because of the parents and it is proven that same sex couples have no detriment on a child's upbringing.

There is no proven anything there is only individual cases, on a case by case basis, all proven means in that context is it's likeness and sameness in contrast of those cases, but nothing is the completely same thing all over the board.

But I don't care, nor see what same sex parents have to do with anything, all I am saying is no matter who the parents are they have a habit of imparting there wills upon there child, to the child's detriment.

some studies even suggest that same sex couple children actually perform better through school and become more balanced human beings.... judging by your response and others on here the more same sex couples the better

Listen I really do not care whatever works, and is best then I am for it. And I really could care less what it is, if people wanted to have test tube clone babies, I would be all for it as long as it works and is best. And in fact looking around this world, both different sex parents and same sex parents....I am beginning to wonder if it were not best to let them be raised by machines, in test tubes.

So as you can see I have very little faith in any of it as of lately.

reply to post by Ashleigholivia


Ah so now the real slim shady and hatred comes out.

So since your being more real, what do you really think on this whole thing?

Originally posted by Ashleigholivia

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Ashleigholivia

 

You can not delay a natural process without consequences. By delaying puberty using drugs it will just lead to other problems. Why don't you just say it, that there delaying the natural order of puberty for there own purposes and hopefully desired effects.

did you hear about the trans-species dolphin that was a transsexual whale trapped in a dolphins body?

I have no clue what wales and dolphins have to do with this, but no I have not heard of it.

Or the Male to female transsexual who cross dresses as a man?

I have heard and seen them, what is your point?

The drugs are of no consequence to the child's health.

This response of yours will of course show the people with a higher intelligence just how challenged you actually are.

The drugs are of no consequence to the childs health?

If you really believe that there is nothing I can say to you that won't be a waste of effort.

I don't think it's a matter of the parents being lesbians or not, as most children of gays are actually straight. But I think it would be best to let the child grow up before anything like this is tried. Identity is hardly formed by 11, so whatever this child is has yet to be seen, by him or anyone. Puberty could change many things for this child. Not even having grown up is no time to make a decision like this. I think it's really incredibly stupid.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


So did you choose to be heterosexual? Am I to understand that since birth and until we make a choice our sexual attractions are neutral? I don't remember choosing to be straight. I also don't remember choosing to hate mango or to love steak.

reply to post by Annee


Let me add that I do firmly believe some children definitely do have ADHD. My post was not meant to discredit children who actually so suffer. I do believe many parents/doctors think drugs are an easy fix though. I took ADHD medication after begging my parents and it didn't help at all. I think to often there are other issues at play and medication is a band aid. Of course, not always the case.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Ashleigholivia

 

You can not delay a natural process without consequences. By delaying puberty using drugs it will just lead to other problems.

Do you have studies proving that?

Seems to me those on this board who DO KNOW - - the affects of Transgender on a child - - are far better qualified to not only give an informed opinion - - - but have real experience.

Even with the info I've researched - - - there is ZERO way I can know what it is to experience Transgender. I know where "my road ends and theirs begins." I respect them and their opinion.

You may not consider Transgender life threatening - - - and I'm sure you think a child with heart disease needs to take drugs.

Maybe you should take another look at the suicide rate for those born this way.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by Annee

 

Let me add that I do firmly believe some children definitely do have ADHD. My post was not meant to discredit children who actually so suffer. I do believe many parents/doctors think drugs are an easy fix though. I took ADHD medication after begging my parents and it didn't help at all. I think to often there are other issues at play and medication is a band aid. Of course, not always the case.

Oh I totally agree with you. Like I said I have a lot to say on this subject - - just not here.

I don't think ADHD just happened. What happened was fitting into a programmed world. There was a time if a child wasn't book smart - - they learned a trade. Most ADHD kids are good at spacial thinking. They can put puzzles together faster then most other kids.

Originally posted by thebtheb
I think it would be best to let the child grow up before anything like this is tried. Identity is hardly formed by 11, so whatever this child is has yet to be seen, by him or anyone.

But - - that is exactly what this is about.

It gives the child a few more years to think about how she feels about it.

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that?

Originally posted by AGWskeptic

The drugs are of no consequence to the childs health?

If you really believe that there is nothing I can say to you that won't be a waste of effort.

Would you deny a child with a heart condition drugs? Would the drugs be more important then the affects they might have?

Oh - I know - you're going to respond - - - that's a life threatening condition.

Well - - - so is living as a girl in a boys body. You just can't open your mind enough to understand that.