Controversial Therapy for Pre-Teen Transgender Patient Raises Questions

reply to post by Annee

Do you have studies proving that?

No.

Why do you want me to look for such things, because I could in all probability find some. But anyways like I said I don't put much stake in such things....studies smudies all muddies. I am not interested in such at this time merely the opinion of people on this board, even if there opinions are a bit fake.

Even with the info I've researched - - - there is ZERO way I can know what it is to experience Transgender. I know where "my road ends and theirs begins." I respect them and their opinion.

You may not consider Transgender life threatening - - - and I'm sure you think a child with heart disease needs to take drugs. Maybe you should take another look at the suicide rate for those born this way.

Oh I make no claim to know what there thinking or there experience is like. But judging from the lengths there willing to go to change there sex, and the things there willing to go trough, I would have to judge that it is true that there females in a male body, or vice versa. Even if I don't really get it.

Don't get me wrong I respect there opinions, I just don't like being lied to, or manipulated, even if they don't know that there doing it, it's annoying. But anyways that's not the point.....I forgot what the point was. ....But whatever it was, no doubt it was pointy...So anyways whatever the case for this kid, I think that whatever it is about, it is to late to go back now for "him".

So the only steady route is for "her" keeping on going forward, without looking back. Whatever the case might be it don't matter now "me thinks", only what is, and what can be. However i do not trust the parents of this kid, oh yes everybody seems to have agendas....As if it mattered in the end, when its all said and done.

Seems to me those on this board who DO KNOW - - the affects of Transgender on a child - - are far better qualified to not only give an informed opinion - - - but have real experience.

I agree, forgive me tough if I don't completely trust there opinions. Don't worry though! I trust no ones opinions, not even mine.....So how about this we can always ask again.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
Why do you want me to look for such things, because I could in all probability find some. But anyways like I said I don't put much stake in such things....studies smudies all muddies. I am not interested in such at this time merely the opinion of people on this board, even if there opinions are a bit fake.

Fake? You think they are making up stories?

However i do not trust the parents of this kid, oh yes everybody seems to have agendas....

Why? Why do you not trust these parents?

Agenda? My only agenda with my ADHD child was to get her the best treatment I could find.

Seems to me - - that is exactly what these parents are doing.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


Greetings Evolutionsend, a few question for you.

Do you really believe this kid is like you a transgender person, or are you merely just superimposing your life and experiences on to this whole thing, even your prejudices, and possibly hates? Or is it a bit of all things?

How much of it, do you think is what the kid is really like. In whatever you want to call it, mind, soul, persona or any such word describing totality and completion of individuals?

And how much of it could you think just be outside influence ie environmental? And yes I consider parents part of the thing called environment.

I know such questions are impossible to really answer, but still?

reply to post by Annee


Nah I don't think there making up stories, however I just think there not telling the whole truth about some things.

And again ADHD and this seem to be different, totally different if you have not noticed that, I really don't see how you can compare the two.


# I have never been able to stay still my entire life, nor can I stay on one subject for to long without getting bored and moving on. And if I was diagnosed when young I would have probably been ADHD among a great many other supposed diseases out there, but I was not.

And so as you can see. I am perfectly fine, and normal....Or about as normal as anybody else out there>

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
And again ADHD and this seem to be different, totally different if you have not noticed that, I really don't see how you can compare the two.

I am a parent trying to do what is best for my child.

Can you compare that?

# I have never been able to stay still my entire life, nor can I stay on one subject for to long without getting bored and moving on. And if I was diagnosed when young I would have probably been ADHD among a great many other supposed diseases out there, but I was not.

My grandson was very hyper. We nicknamed him Tigger. But just being hyper is not ADHD.

ADHD is an umbrella for many different behaviors - - attributed to some kind of brain dis-function or damage.

You are stereotyping ADHD.

reply to post by Annee


I'm not 'trying' anything. It is what I believe. I believe that who and what we are when we are born is who and what we will be until we die no matter what we change on the outside. A man will still be a man no matter what he looks like or how he dresses or how many hormones he takes. He can even have his penis cut off and he will still be a man no matter how he percieves himself after the surgery. The fact remains he is still a man. The same goes for women. Some things you just cant change even with all the wishful thinking in the world and mutilating your body isnt going to change that. You just cant change the fundamental building blocks that you are comprised of.

I believe very strongly in the freedom of choice. I believe that is one of cornerstones of American phlosophies. That we are all CREATED equal with unalienable rights. I also believe that the freedom of choice -- Liberty -- the founding idea of America is just as important today as then. We all have choices and if you want to mutilate your body to feel better about yourself I respect that because that is your right to do so.

I really was serious though about not arguing homosexuality being something you're born as or a choice and you're not going to bait me into it.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
I'm not 'trying' anything. It is what I believe. I believe that who and what we are when we are born is who and what we will be until we die no matter what we change on the outside.

Sounds like a god believer speaking

Belief does not make anything true.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
. . . if you want to mutilate your body to feel better about yourself I respect that because that is your right to do so.

Mutilate. That's respectful

I really was serious though about not arguing homosexuality being something you're born as or a choice and you're not going to bait me into it.

No way José.

I've been discussing this topic for 20 years. I know all the tricks.

You will not sluff naturally Born out to the corn field - - when discussing homosexuality is Choice.

Behavior is choice. Homosexuality is not.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just stating my own personal opinion and views as I see them. I can respect your point of view. I really dont know anything about what it is like to go through that process but it does fascinate me. I view trans-gender and trans-sexual issues fundamentally. I have nothing against it and I can understand how easily in our society it is to develop identity issues. I look at it from a scientists point of view. Who we are is determined by what type chromosome we have -- XX or XY -- male or female. That is just a fundamental law of nature and yes there are exceptions to every rule, anomolies such as children being born with both genders. Children who are both male and female but that is extremely rare and there is always one gender more dominant than the other.

Who and what we are doesn't change just because of hormones, clothes, surgery or a mindset. Male or female -- that's it. We cant change who we are fundamentally just because we act different.

Ghandhi once said that the truth remains even if there be no public support for it and it will outlast everything else because the truth is the truth. The truth is males cant be females because they take hormones and get surgery and vice versa. Male's will be males and females will be females and that is the way it will be until the end of time.

reply to post by Annee


I'm not trying any 'tricks'. I'm just stating my opinion as is my right. You can disagree with my opinion. That is also your right. We are all just having a civilized intelligent discussion and can post our views how we see fit.

I agree with the original poster. I don't hold any hatred towards gay people, but I reckon it is pretty unnatural to have two same sex parents.

Without even intending to, this same sex family environment could have influenced the child into this type of thinking. You can't know for sure though, but I definitely disagree with the drugs. It doesn't seem very ethical of a doctor to prescribe stuff like that to a child.

I would say let puberty hit and see what happens.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by Annee

 

I'm not trying any 'tricks'. I'm just stating my opinion as is my right. You can disagree with my opinion. That is also your right. We are all just having a civilized intelligent discussion and can post our views how we see fit.

NO - - - you claimed Homosexual was a choice and being born Homosexual was not part of the discussion.

You definitely wanted to control the discussion of your opinion.

That is just not going to happen.

monkey see, monkey do.

I'm suprised this doesnt happen more often.

"but dad, I wanna be like you.."

Humanity is phuqued in the coming century. i hope my kid can stay afloat.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Ashleigholivia

 

You

did you hear about the trans-species dolphin that was a transsexual whale trapped in a dolphins body?

I have no clue what wales and dolphins have to do with this, but no I have not heard of it.

Or the Male to female transsexual who cross dresses as a man?

I have heard and seen them, what is your point?

1. A joke, learn how to take one.
2. A point to the joke, not a very good one I may add.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Annee

 

And again ADHD and this seem to be different, totally different if you have not noticed that, I really don't see how you can compare the two.

*50's instructional TV video*

And this is what I like to call the "Anti-gay defense mechanism." It is easy as 1, 2 ,3.

Step one: Say _____ and _______ are completely different after you feel defeated, and follow that sentance with an insult to the person who said it or try to make the comparison seem illogical.

Step 2: Put your fingers in your ears.

Step 3: Repeat after me: LALALALALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALALALALA

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by Annee

 

I'm not trying any 'tricks'. I'm just stating my opinion as is my right. You can disagree with my opinion. That is also your right. We are all just having a civilized intelligent discussion and can post our views how we see fit.

NO - - - you claimed Homosexual was a choice and being born Homosexual was not part of the discussion.

You definitely wanted to control the discussion of your opinion.

That is just not going to happen.

Ok this convo has gone to the old debate of "Choice or not" so Im going to give my personal insight on this, and Im sure evolution (user) will come on and do the same.

I am an 18 year old gay male. I think homosexuality is not a choice, however I think It can be a choice.
What I mean by this is, "straight" guys can have homosexual experiences, and choose to do so, but have a choice to do so. However, I feel a majority of homosexuals/bisexuals, such as myself, do not have a choice. Ever since I was 11-12 (When most boys are being interested in girls) I was interested in guys. I also would seclude myself from guyfriends because I would not trust myself to control myself. (This is in highschool, not when I was 11 xD) I have had several girlfriends, and I have had sexual intercourse with a girl, (well, at least we tried..) All this time, I was also in an advanced high school program for trades (culinary) and trying to deal all the other things highschooler have to deal with, (tests, drama, drama, drama, more drama, and a little touch of guidence conselling.)

So my point is, Why would I choose to go through all this? When I finally came out I lost most my friends, had to find a new church, my parents were disgusted with me for a month or so (well at least my mom was, she got over it though), and now I fall into one of the most hated groups in america, so much so that I am denied the "Pursuit of Happiness" and also get paid 25cents less an hour on average.

This is just what happens to a homosexual. This is a MILD trip, some people get kicked out of their parents house at 15-16, or worse, their parents try to "Fix" them.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Evolutionsend

 

And how much of it could you think just be outside influence ie environmental? And yes I consider parents part of the thing called environment.


I know im not her, but I'll tackle these.

Do you really believe this kid is like you a transgender person, or are you merely just superimposing your life and experiences on to this whole thing, even your prejudices, and possibly hates? Or is it a bit of all things?

I do not think she is doing any of these things. From the pictures shown of this kid, He is obviously feminine, and in todays world, that either means gay or transgender. Also, Dont be telling evvie about prejudices and hates, or if you do, practice what you preach.

How much of it, do you think is what the kid is really like. In whatever you want to call it, mind, soul, persona or any such word describing totality and completion of individuals?

I think that this kid should wait untill he is in puberty to really tell, and that he should be homeschooled. I used to be like this kid (Not in that extreme) in the fact that i liked things that girls where supposed to like. It took me untill my sophmore year in highschool to get over the mental trauma and self-consiousness/insecurity that It caused.

And how much of it could you think just be outside influence ie environmental? And yes I consider parents part of the thing called environment.

It might be part of it, It might not. We do not know. What we do know however, is that the only reason that the media picked up on this is because it was another LGBT + LGBT = LGBT story.

I dont know what gay agenda you think we have, But i hear the straight agenda lound and clear.

I wish I was given this opertunity - ashame they pick the lesbian couple to throw infront of the media for these practicies. They just want it to sound like a 'lesbian thing'
peace

Originally posted by xPico
I wish I was given this opertunity - ashame they pick the lesbian couple to throw infront of the media for these practicies. They just want it to sound like a 'lesbian thing'
peace

If I was given this chance, I would not take it because I dont think this is safe, delaying puberty and whatnot.

Originally posted by spw184
I am an 18 year old gay male. I think homosexuality is not a choice, however I think It can be a choice.
What I mean by this is, "straight" guys can have homosexual experiences, and choose to do so, but have a choice to do so.

Yes. But choice to have a homosexual experience when you are not or do not consider yourself homosexual is behavior. Behavior is a choice.

I do support the sliding scale and feel those who fall dead center can be BI. In my years of following all this - - I consider BI - - well BI - - not gay. However - every BI person I've talked to or heard in interviews does have a preference to one gender or the other.

So my point is, Why would I choose to go through all this? When I finally came out I lost most my friends, had to find a new church, my parents were disgusted with me for a month or so (well at least my mom was, she got over it though), and now I fall into one of the most hated groups in america, so much so that I am denied the "Pursuit of Happiness" and also get paid 25cents less an hour on average.

Exactly!

This is just what happens to a homosexual. This is a MILD trip, some people get kicked out of their parents house at 15-16, or worse, their parents try to "Fix" them.

Yes - Cyndi Lauper just opened a LGBT Youth center in New York.

Cyndi Lauper Opens Housing for LGBT Youth. "In New York City, a very disproportionate number (up to 40 percent) of homeless youth identify as L.G.B.T.,"

culture.wnyc.org...