Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

reply to post by wildtimes

This case is so strange I really don't have a reason to doubt it's 'him'.
I think an 'imposter' would have given up long ago.
Do I think he's telling the truth? If he is he's embellishing, but probably not that much.
Tough call though.

Schmae

Another tough one to answer... Do I think she'll be found?
If I had to answer I'd say - not alive but I think 'something' of hers will be found.
I just don't think it's all that easy to 'get rid' of a body, even as small as she is/was.
Like *X* said - maybe not until Spring?

peace

reply to post by wildtimes


I was just talking with a fellow 'sleuther' about that very thing. Is "JUSTICE" actually uncle " JOHNNY". Here's what I have noticed. A) many of the followers of both thread think they are one and the same. I check just a few times a day , very briefly and do not read ALL the replies. SO I think those who are there 'all day' may have a better idea than me. So if many of them thinkit's the same, it very well could be. B) I did follow very closely the first few days of the JUSTICE thread. I noticed for example when megan wright first started talking on Justice page he was VERY VERY curious, constantly asking her very important questions.. ' who had your phone, who took that call, where were you , where were they ', etc etc. He's a curious fellow. Now I notice today Justice and Johnny are commenting on some posts together and Justice isnt' asking Johnny anything like I would think... How did Lisa die? Who did Deb call? Which family members? etc etc..........virtually NOTHING Now if Justice were as curious as he seemed to be, why not ask Johnny IF he believes he's the real uncle? I've seen Justice say many times 'this is the REAL uncle'........ So that makes me think they are the same. see?

reply to post by schmae


yeah, totally see what you mean. I agree.
There are just too few complaints, and too many allegations....
by him and against him.

And just to point out here, you know info is getting harder and harder to come by when we're reading folks facebook pages that we are pretty sure are liars and con artists.............just saying

Originally posted by schmae
And just to point out here, you know info is getting harder and harder to come by when we're reading folks facebook pages that we are pretty sure are liars and con artists.............just saying

Yeah its almost as if the Police, by closing down the command center, scaling back resources and barely speaking to media if at all, might have been hoping the family infighting might reveal some information / accusations / evidence that wasnt forthcoming before. As with everything, the moment an external threat has subsided, the family goes back to squalling with each other.....

/whistles to self and strolls out of the thread...

reply to post by schmae

Excellent points! I see what you mean now.
So they're either one in the same (Johnny) or one in the same 'Justice' being also Johnny.
Well, if that's the case than all I can hope for is someone in the family is still reading 'Justice' and feeling the heat.
Slim hope, but some.

peace

reply to post by silo13


I haven't been around since post / pg 83.. only from frustration. I know th KCPD must have info and are holding it close to their vest as someone said back around my last visit....taking a page from CA book. For them to announce they have ceased the search or whatever the exact verbiage is; I believe could be a ploy a) to gain further reaction from Deb/Jer and force their lead rather than what seems a defense; b) they have a person and are either totally tracing all of his tracks past and current as well as possibly processing evidence for a likely indictement only one could hope - rather it is from kidnapping and exploitation or worse.

There has been 100+ pages since I have been on daily - sorry to may have regurgitated what may have already been said or discussed. Just my view when the "story seemed to come to an abrupt halt."

reply to post by mcsandy


No worries... We are glad you came back and are jumping back into the conversation. As for the repeat of info its all good.. When the thread gets this many pages a reminder here and there is a good thing.

I wouldn't say the police stopped looking, opting instead for reallocation of resources to pressing cases that need attention.

What are your thoughts? Parents involved somehow? Stranger abduction?

Spent a little time looking at all the drama revolving around this on FB. There are so many infights going on there that it's a story of its own. It is pretty revealing in some ways -- apparently a lot of family tension is being dispelled there. Sad state of affairs when a family is so messed up they have to air their troubles on public facebook pages.

Though no real info is forthcoming, the "noise" is certainly revealing as to the lack of dignity and respect these family members give to one another. All sorts of rumors swirling around as to "family member" having "the real scoop" about other family members, people supposedly using multiple accounts, LE having been watching the pages and been alerted multiple times but (obviously) they are not interfering with it.

By the by, Facebook DOES cooperate with LE for investigative/criminal purposes, according to Facebook's general information page. So, to me, it seems significant that the bashing, accusations, etc are left there for the world to see. Does this help solve the case? (Not a rhetorical question -- a sincere one. Just like politics is now using FB for campaigning... Why do you suppose LE is "permitting" the whole thing? Do you think it's possible that one of these pages IS ACTUALLY Law Enforcement/FBI?





SECOND ETA: There is a new page named "Lisa Remembered", and the person posting from it says they are also family members. They say Johnny is in KC and staying with them, and together "they" are watching the Updates page and laughing. Today is a "march" for Lisa, in about 2 hours. Lisa Remembered says that Lisa is deceased. They want Deborah to stand up and take it like a mother and a woman.

I am also a family member and I am not on anybodys team or side. But Lisa is deceased and like Johnny has been saying for 2 months now , you all dont know what you are talking about. He is here now in KC with us and we laugh at what you all do on here. Maybe you will say that I am really Johnny. That is what you do. You cant handle the truth and use Lisa for your own purposes.

reply to post by wildtimes


I wonder if LE is actually watching that. I've heard them say it for days and days but can't help but think if LE looked at it for one day they would LOL and turn it off. It's just a circus on crack over there.

Just had a thought, LE would be able to verify if Uncle Johnnys really uncle Johnny and then if he WERE, and the other fake names that are really family members, it would be useful info. Right?

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I wonder if LE is actually watching that. I've heard them say it for days and days but can't help but think if LE looked at it for one day they would LOL and turn it off. It's just a circus on crack over there.

I agree, it IS a circus. But the new Lisa Remembered page has a photo for an avatar -- of Deborah's mother. The same photo that's on her obituary page. And Johnny uses a photo of baby Lisa as his. I just think this would be over-the-top audacity if they are NOT family...surely the family would protest to Facebook!??

The infamous "march" is supposed to have started a few minutes ago....I saw no coverage of it on kctv5 or the paper...but I'll keep looking. Would be interesting to get pics of the participants. And if Johnny and family are in KC, wouldn't you think they'd be at the march??

As much as I want to know, NO WAY I'm going over there to join in, or to "watch." I want NO PART of ANY of this. I want to know what happened. That's all. But I do wonder if they (the marchers) made the signs suggested by fb Justice for Lisa Irwin. What a mess.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Here's a little "true story" from a fb poster who is also a local.
She says she worked in the area with DFS (child protection services)

EDIT TO MAKE VERY CLEAR: THIS IS NOT ME, and I DO NOT KNOW THIS PERSON

Tarie Godsey

True story of a mom's love, I wanted to share this here. Years ago, I worked for the state as a social worker. A young mother was 14 and worked 2 jobs to care for her 11 month old. One ice cold and snowy night, the mom chained her baby's leg to the bed and ran down the block to get a carton of milk. The neighbor had seen the mom leave the apartment and heard the baby cry and called 911.

To Cut to the chase, the baby was placed in foster care with an older couple who had kids in college. The 14 year old mom turned 15, then 16 and did everything to get her baby back, she obtained her HS diploma, worked 2 jobs without ANY family support (the baby was the product of rape) completed parenting classes, enrolled in collge, all by herself. The foster parents bonded with the birth mom and the toddler.

When it was time for the baby to go back to her mother, she asked me to request the foster parents adopt her child as they could provide for her. I was shocked. The foster parents were stunned and agreed to adopt the toddler AND took in the baby's mom as their own. The baby's mom is now a registered nurse and visits her child as often as possible.

That is true love. I wanted to share that on this page that is filled with despair and sadness. There are happy endings to some stories.

I know there's not much info that's new...but I thought adding in some other locals' points of view (aside from mine) might broaden our perspectives here a bit. I've no idea if any of the people on the fb page are also on ATS, but these are what is getting posted by those claiming to be locals.

edit on 5-12-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Yes, however, after a mother's parental rights are terminated for a child that is in foster care, CPS takes all future children. That mom just forfeited all future right to be a mother one day. That is something people are not aware of, since CPS does not admit to it to the birth parents. There is a Federal law. Your SS# is flagged on all future childbirths, and CPS typically shows up at the hospital and takes the baby.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Just had a thought, LE would be able to verify if Uncle Johnnys really uncle Johnny and then if he WERE, and the other fake names that are really family members, it would be useful info. Right?

edit on 11-12-2011 by schmae because: spelling

That's what I'm saying...LE would know if it really is or is not. And if it is NOT, then those people being frauds are certainly responsible for doing a LOT of libeling/defaming of this family. I just can't see a high-profile case like this, still under investigation, being dismissed by the authorities. I also can't see the family ALLOWING it --- I'd be relentless about reporting them, alerting them....facebook is able to delete accounts, right? Or deactivate them?

I mean, how much outright impersonation and false information can people really get away with??

I'm gonna pm X to see if he can fill us in on that aspect of it.

reply to post by Jessicamsa

Yes, however, after a mother's parental rights are terminated for a child that is in foster care, CPS takes all future children. That mom just forfeited all future right to be a mother one day. That is something people are not aware of, since CPS does not admit to it to the birth parents. There is a Federal law. Your SS# is flagged on all future childbirths, and CPS typically shows up at the hospital and takes the baby.

Thanks, yes, for pointing that out. But, Jessicamsa, with all sincerity and respect, can you elaborate on the point you are wanting to make in context of this thread? Do you think this has significance for Deborah? Or just wanting to clarify procedure?

Apparently the "march" is intended to get the case back into the media. So far, it's an utter failure if that is the reason for having it. Not a THING about it in the paper, or kctv yet. I'll keep looking at other stations, though.

But, the "tarie" lady (who Jessicamsa re-posted above) who claims to be a local who knows Edith and has attended the "vigils" wrote this:

Based on what I saw at the last vigil, I'm sure the KCPD will have an officer onsite.

(regarding the march/protest)

and

The vigils as organized by Edith have always been respectful. I don't know if I will be there today as I have a ton of stuff to do. As long as this case stays in the media, Lisa has a chance of being located.

EDIT TO ADD: Nothing. Zip. Nada NO coverage whatsoever from local stations, or from CNN, HLN, etc.
Nothing at all.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Jessicamsa

 

Yes, however, after a mother's parental rights are terminated for a child that is in foster care, CPS takes all future children. That mom just forfeited all future right to be a mother one day. That is something people are not aware of, since CPS does not admit to it to the birth parents. There is a Federal law. Your SS# is flagged on all future childbirths, and CPS typically shows up at the hospital and takes the baby.

Thanks, yes, for pointing that out. But, Jessicamsa, with all sincerity and respect, can you elaborate on the point you are wanting to make in context of this thread? Do you think this has significance for Deborah? Or just wanting to clarify procedure?

I don't even know why what I replied to was in the thread. But it seems to me that most people do not even know this about having your parental rights terminated by the government. Having it held up as an example for young women to allow happen, without the consequences of such even mentioned, seems quite wrong. Just because someone is down on his/her luck now should not mean that he/she forfeits the ability to ever have a family.

And just because a child is growing up poor doesn't mean that the child is being abused. Sometimes, growing up in poverty helps a child learn empathy for others. A child should not lose his/her parents because the child's parents are poor.

I guess the poster thought Debbie should have given her children up for adoption or something? I don't know why that story was added to this thread.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


I'm sorry, it was kind of off-topic, but I posted it in an ongoing effort to illustrate that Kansas City has some very kind people. There are some on ATS who seem to think it's a backwater, hayseed, ignorant place. That was all....

I agree with you -- that people's socio-economic status has nothing to do with their parenting ability.

A kid going into foster care is not the equivalent of TPR (termination of parental rights). The parents have the chance to get the child back for a LONG time after they've been placed in foster care. Obviously this young mom did what she needed to do to regain her child's custody.

Parents who lose their rights completely (TPR) have been given numerous opportunities and access to multiple resources and support to enable them to improve their parenting. Courts are involved, case managers, counselors, all sorts of peripheral services...

When it happens, it is the result of absolute failure on the part of the parents, having been given ample time and coaching and guidance, to develop the skills necessary to be a fit parent.

I think there should be a limitation on it, and a chance to be restored one's rights to one's kids. People do get their acts together, no question about it. But keep in mind that those who in the end DO lose their rights permanently have been very carefully monitored, and educated, and gone to counseling, etc.

Anyway, yes, it's good for people to be aware that at least for now, once those rights have been terminated they can't be restored. Thanks again...no offense intended, Jessicasma.

EDIT TO ADD:
The person who originally posted it on facebook was responding to a question by someone who wanted to know who on the Lisa Irwin page was local. I just thought it was a touching story of compassion, and the hard work that some young women are willing to put in so they can be good parents. It was posted in the context of looking at fb pages and the people who are following the case on there. Again, my apologies for muddying up the thread.

Back on topic: Has anyone heard anything about the "march"?

All's quiet in KC it seems.

reply to post by schmae


Yup. Whoever that Tarie person is who said on fb that media is "all over" Penguin Park either lied, or the media decided not to air the stories.

IMO, it throws her credibily out.

No news whatsoever.

The Brad-Wins have a computer and a FB account (at least Deborah does).
In the age of 'tell all' FB I don't think it's out of the ballpark to believe the person or person's behind the FB page is LE. That would explain why FB allows the accounts to continue, etc.
If Deb is reading these accounts (unless she's the most incurious person alive how could she not be) I don't see why it couldn't be used as leverage.
On the other hand wouldn't LE be violating terms of use by using FB that way? Is that in itself a crime.
Just thinking aloud here - not much else.

peace