How You Know Somebody is Enlightened

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
It is impossible for someone to prove that they are enlightened to the unenlightened. And it is impossible to know if someone is enlightened (unless they are enlightened themselves and even then they would have to be discussing this subject). The main reason is that the unenlightened don't know what it means to be enlightened.

The unenlightened are individuals that believe stories that they tell themselves.
The enlightened know it without a story.

Exactly!

We find it hard to free ourselves from our minds because we think we are in there, in the mind all tied up in knots, lost.
The cure is to stand back and watch the mind chatter. Become aware of the noise and listen to it. The one listening is quiet.
That one has always been there and it is always peaceful.
Dwell there.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
We find it hard to free ourselves from our minds because we think we are in there, in the mind all tied up in knots, lost.
The cure is to stand back and watch the mind chatter. Become aware of the noise and listen to it. The one listening is quiet.
That one has always been there and it is always peaceful.
Dwell there.

Perfect. Become The Hidden Observer

Originally posted by Fraam
reply to post by prepared4truth

 

Enlightenment is not something you know, it's something you practice. There are so many definitions of enlightenment that is quite hard to tell which one is the best. I guess each one should pick what resonates best with them.

What I find much more important is how one applies the knowledge of enlightenment (regardless of definition) in every nook and cranny of their everyday life. That's where true empowerment lies.

edit on 3-10-2011 by Fraam because: I can

I agree. But, because enlightenment has no set boundaries or law that give it a set definition, may actually be the definition if you are able to pull back and see the penrose stairs instead of walking them.

Gaining enlightenment may never be truly attainable until we recognize that it is infinite within a finite plane of existence.

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
Those who are truly elightnend MOST LIKELY don't spend time on the internet nor conspiracy forums.

Hmm. Wrong again. The truly enlightened are happy and eager to try to teach the ignorant world how to behave properly. And for their effort, they are chastised and ridiculed by most.

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
Those who are truly elightnend MOST LIKELY don't spend time on the internet nor conspiracy forums.

Hmm. Wrong again. The truly enlightened are happy and eager to try to teach the ignorant world how to behave properly. And for their effort, they are chastised and ridiculed by most.

Would you consider yourself enlightened?

Originally posted by ImmortalThought

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
Those who are truly elightnend MOST LIKELY don't spend time on the internet nor conspiracy forums.

Hmm. Wrong again. The truly enlightened are happy and eager to try to teach the ignorant world how to behave properly. And for their effort, they are chastised and ridiculed by most.

Would you consider yourself enlightened?

In what sense? I am enlightened in terms of personal ethics and overall worldview, for starters. I also have a lot of righteous anger, and am even willing to support vigilante justice under the right circumstances. I see absolutely no problem with that.

Do you think enlightenment must be equated with Ghandi-esque passivity and complete non-violence? How about the great men who created this country, fought and died for freedom? How about the great men who opposed the central banks? You are naive if you believe that enlightenment is only some mystical journey into passive harmony with all humans. As long as evil exists in the world, it must be opposed. Many times that opposition necessitates violence and killing. It is not the act of violence or killing itself which is inherently unenlightened. What matters is the intent.

reply to post by prepared4truth


Very good OP and delivered excellently. It shows enlightenment is indeed a path with many twists and turns along the way. We can all take wrong turns and become lost for a while but these are only there to show us the correct way, everything we experience on the road to enlightenment is in the service to it.

Again a very good OP.

reply to post by prepared4truth


you put them on the scales and see how much they weigh...

reply to post by prepared4truth


Be aware of your surroundings including thoughts and sensations that arise. The 'interior' has to be included in the surroundings you are aware of. Be aware of all that is happening. Be here and now. If the attention is in the moment it can not be off causing trouble. If thoughts arise they are watched by the presence that you are.
You are the sky. Everything else is weather.

I question whether it's possible to become enlightened without mystical experiences. I question whether simply believing something that enlightened people believe is enough, or whether knowing a lot of wise sayings is enough, or whether reading the right books is enough, or having the right diet, the right moral code, the right practices, etc.

I think that maybe one has to undergo ego-death first.

You don't, you just believe they are.

That's how you lose!

1 still FULLY does not understand what it means (seems all are fish in a pond until wings of AWARNESS are grown). I know it involves care and compassion for others as well as LOVE for ALL CREATORS CREATIONS. Vibrating your soul energy on a positive level and trying to asisst others vibrating on a lower frequency but aside from that1 isnt FULLY up on ALL of it. I think they are like LIGHT WORKERS when achieved state is made.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


The difficulty in describing what enlightenment is that it becomes a goal or a practice. Many think that it is about care and compassion and to love everything. All descriptions are symptoms after the 'event' (awakening) not ways to get there.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I see and thank you for sharing that.. It seems a good pratice as it only influences the best energies within some to come out.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


The only thing that can be done is to direct the attention (your attention) to what is happening in and around you as it is happening. What most do is spend time in the head 'thinking' about another time.
Just be here and now. Be presence.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Collective effects 1 does see. Those arounds minds seeming to be on 1 wave length of PEACE or cooperation.WORKING TOGERTHER MINDSTATES. BUt many not effected. Wonder why. LIke a Matrix omni effector somewhat. I do try to follow as best as 1 can. I just have issues that I feel keep me entangled in the YIN YAN equally, but do my best to shine for others as I always have even before encountering ATS.

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by ImmortalThought

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
Those who are truly enlightened MOST LIKELY don't spend time on the internet nor conspiracy forums.

Hmm. Wrong again. The truly enlightened are happy and eager to try to teach the ignorant world how to behave properly. And for their effort, they are chastised and ridiculed by most.

Would you consider yourself enlightened?

In what sense? I am enlightened in terms of personal ethics and overall worldview, for starters. I also have a lot of righteous anger, and am even willing to support vigilante justice under the right circumstances. I see absolutely no problem with that.

Do you think enlightenment must be equated with Ghandi-esque passivity and complete non-violence? How about the great men who created this country, fought and died for freedom? How about the great men who opposed the central banks? You are naive if you believe that enlightenment is only some mystical journey into passive harmony with all humans. As long as evil exists in the world, it must be opposed. Many times that opposition necessitates violence and killing. It is not the act of violence or killing itself which is inherently unenlightened. What matters is the intent.

In the sense that you have been able appoint yourself an authority on what enlightenment is and who is enlightened. Where you taught by the illumined?

________________________________

I'm sorry if I have upset you. This was not my intention, I only asked the question to understand your point of view.

What does your worldview look like? Can you describe this in detail? [I do hope it is not from a computer chair as is mine ]

__________________________________

Yes, Ghandi was enlightened and his idea of complete non-violence and a passive view enabled him to live a full and happy life. I believe that if I can only meet anger with anger or violence with violence I am missing out on the other half of what enlightenment is. No where did I state "that enlightenment is ONLY some mystical journey in to passive harmony with all humans." I apologize if I led you to that assumption, but maybe you if you read my first post, which you quoted, you would find I said "most likely" this means it does not follow in every case. Maybe you are enlightened, but what do I know I am just a humble student ALWAYS on the path towards enlightenment.

I agree as long as the world knows evil it should be opposed. But, by not taking part in the evil, you are just as equally opposing the evil as you would if you were aggressive in nature. Both a passive and aggressive view have their time and place. The idea that one is better then the other is a half-truth.

And I am glad you brought you up the idea that "It is not the act of violence or killing itself which is inherently unenlightened. What matters is the intent." I was contemplating this the other day and this is what I visioned, you may disagree.

If we were to watch another innocent human being to be cut with a knife from one side of their neck to the other and essentially killed, we would mostly cringe (amongst other emotions). BUT, we seem to have no problem watching a tree be cut down. They are both violent and they are both an act of killing. What separates the two? Degrees. They are the same only separated by a matter of degrees. So I agree with your statement, but being angered over humans killing humans and not over humans killing trees is only seeing half the truth. O and intent does matter, but again it is not the only thing that matters. Just because I intend to ask a simple and passive question does not mean that simply by intent I will get a response I want or think I deserve (because I do not believe my question deserved you resorting to childish name calling of naive, yet there it is). Maybe once I become enlightened my intent will become more pure and able to manifest such things.

Enlightened people most likely stray from society because they understand half truths and instead of being distracted by meaningless values they intend to find whole truths in a natural and peaceful setting. I continue to stand by my original statement.

Originally posted by Student X
I question whether it's possible to become enlightened without mystical experiences. I question whether simply believing something that enlightened people believe is enough, or whether knowing a lot of wise sayings is enough, or whether reading the right books is enough, or having the right diet, the right moral code, the right practices, etc.

I think that maybe one has to undergo ego-death first.

edit on 5-10-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)

I agree, I think. But may I ask, is there a difference between the human ego and the divine ego?

Or is there such thing as the divine ego?

I ask myself this on a daily basis.

reply to post by ImmortalThought


Nope, just "spiritual" wanking extrodinaires!

I'll leave this thread now.

You guys and gals enjoy!