How You Know Somebody is Enlightened

Mysticism, by Evelyn Underhill, [1911], at sacred-texts.com

IV. The Illumination of the Self

There are three main types of experience which appear again and again in the history of mysticism; nearly always in connection with illumination, rather than any other phase of mystical development. I think that they may fairly be regarded as its main characteristics, though the discussion of them cannot cover all the ground. In few forms of spiritual life is the spontaneity of the individual so clearly seen as here: and in few is the ever-deadly process of classification attended with so many risks.

These three characteristics are:—

1. A joyous apprehension of the Absolute: that which many ascetic writers call “the practice of the Presence of God.” This, however, is not to be confused with that unique consciousness of union with the divine which is peculiar to a later stage of mystical development. The self, though purified, still realizes itself as a separate entity over against God. It is not immersed in its Origin, but contemplates it. This is the “betrothal” rather than the “marriage” of the soul.

2. This clarity of vision may also be enjoyed in regard to the phenomenal world. The actual physical perceptions seem to be strangely heightened, so that the self perceives an added significance and reality in all natural things: is often convinced that it knows at last “the secret of the world.” In Blake’s words “the doors of perception are cleansed” so that “everything appears to man as it is , infinite.” 491 In these two forms of perception we see the growing consciousness of the mystic stretching in two directions, until it includes in its span both the World of Being and the World of Becoming; 492 that dual apprehension of reality as transcendent yet immanent which we found to be one of the distinguishing marks of the mystic type.

3. Along with this two-fold extension of consciousness, the energy of the intuitional or transcendental self may be enormously increased. The psychic upheavals of the Purgative Way have tended to make it central for life: to eliminate from the character all those elements which checked its activity.

Now it seizes upon p. 241 the ordinary channels of expression; and may show itself in such forms as (a) auditions, (b) dialogues between the surface consciousness and another intelligence which purports to be divine, (c) visions, and sometimes (d) in automatic writings. In many selves this automatic activity of those growing but still largely subconscious powers which constitute the “New Man,” increases steadily during the whole of the mystic life. Illumination, then, tends to appear mainly under one or all of these three forms.

Often all are present; though, as a rule, one is dominant. The balance of characteristics will be conditioned in each case by the self’s psychic make-up; its temperamental leaning towards “pure contemplation,” “lucid vision,” or automatic expression; emanation or immanence, the metaphysical, artistic, or intimate aspects of truth. The possible combinations between these various factors are as innumerable as the possible creations of Life itself.

great book

reply to post by Golden Rule


I have a few minor contentions with two particulars in your post, but the meaning behind it is well received, I am confident I understand what you are communicating, and bringing up the particulars would not serve good much, if at all.
Cheers!

Originally posted by Dasher

Originally posted by Americanist
Presumably speaking you subscribe to a higher standard then. "Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name." So how well have you aged?

Life prescribed me, but yes, in effect.
Also, you.
In the right circumstance, maybe, Adelphi?
I feel unsure that I am connecting on the same wavelength as you intend, but I often feel as though the more I understand, and even strive to express, I only grow younger and more unwise. I long for birth, but often fear the process. I know Comfort, but forget too easily.

Perhaps there's an option to remember before you begin again. I often stumble across things that were placed there perfectly. I guess it helps I've kept my comforts basic by necessity.

I cite the Rolling Stones mainly because music and the devil have been common scapegoats throughout human history. Everybody seems to blame instead of facing facts. The reality is... As a whole we shape the system beyond its original form. Us finding common ground generates an easier challenge. Life is understanding and paying it forward. You might fear somewhat, but at least you don't let the "I" stand in your way.

And if sacrifice still seems confusing, try helping your neighbor out with their lawn. Never hurts living in a respectful type of neighborhood!

reply to post by Americanist


I suppose if I could remember lyrics better, I may not have taken your words so literally. "Literal" is default for me. Makes "coarse joking," as the NIV terms it, slightly easier to avoid, but doesn't really fit with much of our culture's sense of humor. : )

reply to post by Americanist


I will think on this and take the last line as a rebuke (my neighborhood's "politics" are distasteful and my time is mostly taken, but I still feel a certain burden - one which does extend beyond lawns, but lawns are particularly involved in certain cases closest to me physically).

Your comments make a great case for one to be interested in person to person communication with you.

Originally posted by Dasher
reply to post by Americanist

 

I suppose if I could remember lyrics better, I may not have taken your words so literally. "Literal" is default for me. Makes "coarse joking," as the NIV terms it, slightly easier to avoid, but doesn't really fit with much of our culture's sense of humor. : )

I roll off literal as second nature. I'm also big into music. I've often times used songs to stir the imagination. Melodies sport a proven track record as they align people to move with Universal flow. Get with the "Rattle and Hum," so we're able to talk shop... You come off a rather expansive personality.

reply to post by Americanist


"Been writin' on sandpaper since playin' in sandboxes, now we sandblast MCs off'a tha block. Make glass by the shape of the sheet and build castles, microchips, and fake t!ts that look natural"

... I'm mixing a hiphop album for a client turned friend right now. The lyrics are a bit out of context, but he spits well and often says some real ish.

If you're in SoCal or OR, I'll have you by to break bread and share a drink.

The monitors I use for my business have a huge sound-stage and tremendous detail at reasonable volumes. A music lover's dream and a good meditator's aid, along with other things.

Maybe prepared4truth can chime back in to return the thread to the original intention? If not, this one has probably run it's course.

Originally posted by Dasher
Maybe prepared4truth can chime back in to return the thread to the original intention? If not, this one has probably run it's course.

Hmm....


Seems like you took over a while ago.

reply to post by prepared4truth


Enlightenment is not something you know, it's something you practice. There are so many definitions of enlightenment that is quite hard to tell which one is the best. I guess each one should pick what resonates best with them.

What I find much more important is how one applies the knowledge of enlightenment (regardless of definition) in every nook and cranny of their everyday life. That's where true empowerment lies.

Originally posted by Dasher
reply to post by Americanist

 

"Been writin' on sandpaper since playin' in sandboxes, now we sandblast MCs off'a tha block. Make glass by the shape of the sheet and build castles, microchips, and fake t!ts that look natural"

... I'm mixing a hiphop album for a client turned friend right now. The lyrics are a bit out of context, but he spits well and often says some real ish.

If you're in SoCal or OR, I'll have you by to break bread and share a drink.

The monitors I use for my business have a huge sound-stage and tremendous detail at reasonable volumes. A music lover's dream and a good meditator's aid, along with other things.

Makes sense... I ran a commercial recording studio and record label for many years. I'm no stranger behind a mixing board or in front of a computer mastering. I've also been in the business of live sound. Pretty much produced it all... Managed background on a few tracks. I'm in N. Texas, but I'll certainly lend an ear. Hit me up. I can spot talent whenever and wherever... Even in my less sober moments!

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
Those who are truly elightnend MOST LIKELY don't spend time on the internet nor conspiracy forums.

The majority of us are still students and should learn to remember this. It takes some real discipline that most of us are even able to fathom.

Just saying.

This was my point actually. That once I stopped looking for conspiracies, it became much easier to "see". I still consider myself a student and as a matter of fact, I've learned much from this thread.

I am delighted to see this thread spark thoughts from so many though.

I am also delighted that the true purpose of my thread has revealed itself through its responders. How do you know if somebody is enlightened?

In this thread I see many who have bashed my own stance in favor of their own. I may or may not be enlightened but I can say, that this is not the Way.

I also see those, as I expected to see, who speak about "enlightenment" as if they are more so than others. Comparing their own knowledge to others', I do not think this is the Way either.

I am under the impression that we are all already in a perfect state and "enlightenment" is just the awareness of this perfection, the awareness that even our flaws make us more perfect. The awareness that reflection upon self allows one to see everything for what it is. Nothing.

The point of my post was to give people my own template that I have found, which I consider to be a key to figuring out that state. Take it or leave it.

Originally posted by Fraam
reply to post by prepared4truth

 

Enlightenment is not something you know, it's something you practice. There are so many definitions of enlightenment that is quite hard to tell which one is the best. I guess each one should pick what resonates best with them.

What I find much more important is how one applies the knowledge of enlightenment (regardless of definition) in every nook and cranny of their everyday life. That's where true empowerment lies.

edit on 3-10-2011 by Fraam because: I can

That or just giving yourself over to the knowledge of higher achievement. Every day life can get slightly boring regardless of what you're after. Why? Because most of us are running our own game for a single goal. I believe it is practice and absorbing the good outside of ego. True empowerment is reaching out to others in the same fashion as being gifted. This resonates far beyond the mind to settle in the heart. From there it should be fairly interesting...

How do I know someone is enlightened?

I look them in the eye. If there is life, they have a story to tell. If there is no life, I try to make some.

Both are enlightened.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by prepared4truth


I am so glad you feel a brand new invigoration for life.
However, enlightenment isn't about you, or how you feel, or what you have figured out.
It's nothing you could, or would care to even try to explain.

But keep moving forward...

Also... remember that knowing the path is different than walking the path

*I've decided not to post after all. Sorry about that*

Originally posted by Skorpiogurl
Also... remember that knowing the path is different than walking the path

Did you steal this from Aerosmith and Run DMC?

It is impossible for someone to prove that they are enlightened to the unenlightened. And it is impossible to know if someone is enlightened (unless they are enlightened themselves and even then they would have to be discussing this subject). The main reason is that the unenlightened don't know what it means to be enlightened.

The unenlightened are individuals that believe stories that they tell themselves.
The enlightened know it without a story.

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by Skorpiogurl
Also... remember that knowing the path is different than walking the path

Did you steal this from Aerosmith and Run DMC?

Silly! I don't listen to Aerosmith or Run DMC!

Although I live near Steve Tyler and Joe Perry... it's not unusual to go to the mall and see them walking around with their families.