Massive Union just voted to join the Occupy Wall Street protests!

Originally posted by Cuervo

You like not having to work 61-hour workweeks as an average?

No. Short hours mean short paychecks

You like weekends?

They're ok, I reckon. that's the only time I get to work and make any money.

You like that children aren't allowed to be exploited for slave labor?

Can't say that I care. that properly is their parent's lookout, not mine.

You like not being fired if you are out because of an injury or sickness?

I dunno. Never ran up on that. Near as I can tell, I was looking for a job when I found this one, I suppose I could find another.

You like equal opportunities in the workplace?

No. I like merit-based opportunities.

You can thank unions for all of those.

Thanks for nothing, then. There are other thing to thank them for. Beatings. Coercion. Riots. Death of friends. Destruction. Waste. Theft from my paycheck for dues I don't get to say anything about.

Yeah.

Thanks!

If it weren't for unions, we would still be living like we were in the industrial revolution. We owe them.

I'll tell ya what, you pay 'em what you think you owe 'em, and I'll pay 'em what I owe 'em.

Still looking for sand bags.

Originally posted by Flatfish

FYI, Unions didn't destroy our industrial base, uncontrolled greed did!

To which Unions are immune, of course...

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Cuervo

You like not having to work 61-hour workweeks as an average?

No. Short hours mean short paychecks

Thanks to unions you get paid a decent wage for those hours plus overtime. I think the idea was do you like working 61 hour workweeks for the lowest wage they feel like offering with no overtime.

When Stalin was referring to useful idiots this is what he meant.
The communist system was obviously a bad deal for the majority of the population, he couldn't put a gun up to everyone's head and force them to work, so how's a small oligarchy to keep power over a large group of people? Simple, sucker enough people to act as shills, to keep the rest in line. These shills are the useful idiots. Willing to defend and fight for a system that is ultimately not in their best interest.
Unions are without a doubt, despite their problems in the best interest of working people, what would that make a working class person who is opposed to unions?

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by SanguineDenial
reply to post by felonius

 

Still waiting on an articulated thought from you.

You can continue with the Ad Hominem attacks though, I find the irony to be quite delightful.

I really should have looked at your sign on date.

I have made points and given evidence.

I havent made attacks. If I had, I wouldnt have been so nice.

Your really not worth my time.

Lets go down the list shall we:

Reference to USSR accusing Organized labor of all being communists. (No actual facts to articulate that organized labor equates to communism)

Link to Religious editorial site (many opinions and lots of finger pointing but I don't see any hard arguments and I'm not going to spend all night reading a news feed that you are either unable or unwilling to properly cite in an educated post).

"You wonderful unions are communist sympathizers at the top and ambivalent sheep (at best) at the bottom." (Note the use of "at best, this is an attack right there suggesting inferiority by the nature of the language aka Ad Hominem)

"The link to the "extremest" site (now i can see the "real you"), was evidence of the people that are backing this crap." (The Real You, Ad hominem 2)

"Yall talk a good game of "constitution" and such but when the people you are helping are against everything it stands for?" (Another opinion with no actual supporting argument or facts)

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Make sure of who your allies are.....unless you are for the socialists." (Cliche and more assumptions, no facts or citation)

"Remember what Comrade Stalin said about "useful idiots". " (Ad Hominem)

"I really should have looked at your sign on date. " (yet another Ad Hominem. The creation date of this account and handle has absolutely no bearing on any facts presented. You suggest here that tenure should come into play when considering posts, how very Union-esque of you . )

"I have made points and given evidence." (Points sure but what you consider evidence consists of me being able to psychically know your assumptions of the way the world works, cliche and linking a fundimentalist editorial news feed.)

"I havent made attacks. If I had, I wouldnt have been so nice. " ( Your entire language structure is combative, elitist and arrogant. Unfortunatly you are unable to comprehend this.)

"Your really not worth my time. " (Neither is articulated debate, citation, factual argument or logic.)

I love how some people are trying to justify this takeover. Its like watching Custer's Last Stand being played out in real time. Once they realize they have been surrounded, 'Occupy Wall Street' protestors will have already lost the fight. What is worse than being surrounded? Being taken over by the enemy. Its a Shakespearean play filled with irony, tragedy, and slow death.

Unless the TeaParty can pull something out of their buts, Obama may have already won the 2012 election. His new army is being groomed.

Absolute sheep.

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by Twisted1

Originally posted by Fitch303
Unions have destroyed just as much of our industrial base as wall street has.

How old are you????

Unions Gave YOU the Weekend!!!!!! Without the Unions fighting for Workers rights in the beginning, You would be working for the big controlling corporations for TWO bucks an hour, STILL!!!!

WE stood up a long time ago and said, "Pay Us Fair Wages." You are raking in the "Big Cash" and giving us next to NOTHING!!!


If we would not have stood up for our rights 100+ years ago,,, YOU would have been a SLAVE to system long before now.


It is when people stopped standing up for their RIGHTS that got us in this SH*T STORM in the first place!!!


STAND UP FOR RIGHTS!!!! Why should "Big Corps" rake in BILLIONS when you make SH*T!!!!!


Luckily I won't live long enough to see the Barcodes on the foreheads of the Sheeple that serve the ELITE in the future!!! (I HOPE!!!)


Grow a F*cking Backbone!!!

Stand up for what you Deserve!!! Or stand in line for the Barcode to be stamped on your forehead!!!


Sadly, I feel you and your future family will be SLAVES!!!

....and Hitler gave us the Autobahn.

Doesnt make him a good guy does it?

There are so many oblivious people on here that I don't know where to begin. Unions gave you what workers rights you have. Unfortunately,,,weasels, s*ck*sses,and mama's boys are helping take those rights away and heard in Sheeple.

Yes, Yes my Sheeple,,, Work for less so I can make more.

Originally posted by Sanndy

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Cuervo

You like not having to work 61-hour workweeks as an average?

No. Short hours mean short paychecks

Thanks to unions you get paid a decent wage for those hours plus overtime.

That's incorrect. I get paid what I contract for. if I don't like the pay, I don't sign the contract. Unions didn't have anything to do with it.

WHAT overtime?

I think the idea was do you like working 61 hour workweeks for the lowest wage they feel like offering with no overtime.

Again, if I don't like it, I don't work it. simple. That's why I quit that Union shop after about 6 or 8 months. I'd had all the BS I could stand. Got another job, problem solved.

Also, again, WHAT overtime?

Originally posted by Fitch303
Unions have destroyed just as much of our industrial base as wall street has.

really???

Doubled up.

reply to post by Fitch303

My dad worked for the union and after all he paid in to the union, he retired with only part of what he would have had if he'd saved the money himself. When he passed away, mom, who depended on his retirement to pay the normal bills, only got half of what the two of them were getting. He lived for about 5 years after he retired and she lived another 3 years. What did the union do with all they had paid for all those years? We have been conditioned. I don't have a lot of money but I sure don't want making money to be demonized! Why do we think the man that hires us must be made to give us more than we agreed on in the beginning. If you don't like what you are getting, then go find another job or start your own business. If you earn your paycheck, why in the world should you be expected to give it away. I know I'm talking too much and have gone off on a tangent but all this class warfare is driving me crazy!!!

Originally posted by jlv70

Unions are without a doubt, despite their problems in the best interest of working people,

Well, except the ones they kill off or hospitalize. THOSE working people just don't count, eh? Nossir, Unions are for UNIONS. Working folks are just cogs they can draft into their machine, cannon fodder for their fight with corporations so they can make themselves all fat and sassy.

Working people are nothing more than renewable resources for Unions, to be used up and discarded. Trumka said it best - "HERE is your ARMY, Mr. President!"

Working folks are CANNON FODDER for Unions.

what would that make a working class person who is opposed to unions?

Sane, and free.

Originally posted by ladyoutlaw
reply to post by Fitch303

 

My dad worked for the union and after all he paid in to the union, he retired with only part of what he would have had if he'd saved the money himself. When he passed away, mom, who depended on his retirement to pay the normal bills, only got half of what the two of them were getting. He lived for about 5 years after he retired and she lived another 3 years. What did the union do with all they had paid for all those years? We have been conditioned. I don't have a lot of money but I sure don't want making money to be demonized! Why do we think the man that hires us must be made to give us more than we agreed on in the beginning. If you don't like what you are getting, then go find another job or start your own business. If you earn your paycheck, why in the world should you be expected to give it away. I know I'm talking too much and have gone off on a tangent but all this class warfare is driving me crazy!!!

reply to post by nenothtu


You are correct there are no unions involved in your current job position, you are an independent contractor of some sort. If you have employees (and i don't have the foggiest if you do) i would imagine that they really do like over time, weekends and all the other trappings that come along with modern work.

But back onto you, being an independent contractor makes you the exception to the rule, most people are not lucky enough to have that freedom. I applaud you for going out and making something of yourself, and if the union that is involved in your type of work was not for you well that is fine, unions are not for every one and yes they are flawed some much worse than others. The argument being put forth by others while valid is not really a good argument for Union work. Though i have yet to hear one argument against my union that is valid.


Now as far as people complaining that they have no say in there union dues and what said money is used for, at least in my union that is not true, by being active in my union i have a voice and an equal vote as to what "our" union does.

thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe.

May the people of this country at long lasts shed the shackles of fear and take back what is theres

Originally posted by jenk1013
This is getting exciting! I am really hoping that this will take off across the country. I plan to go to the OccupyDC movement on Oct 6th. Please look at the OccupyTogether.org website to find a movement near you and GET INVOLVED!! Whether you are pro-union or not, conservative or liberal, black or white--It doesn't matter! Stop letting them divide us. UNITE!!

Where have I heard that slogan before? "Workers of the world, UNITE!"

Oh, yeah, I remember now... There was a big red fist attached to the sign...

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't like MY involvement, so I'll just stay home and keep on working - filling these sand bags....

reply to post by crimsongod21


Of course I agree with you - I'm also not going to picket my doctor's office calling him a criminal after he fixes my medical problem.

The unions can't have it both ways - they can't deride the finance industry and then subsequently hire those same folks without totally lacking integrity,which they do

Q. You like that children aren't allowed to be exploited for slave labor?

A. Can't say that I care. that properly is their parent's lookout, not mine.

Fail !!!!! That´s exactly the problem.... you really don´t care a thing about others my friend.

reply to post by dolphinfan


On this subject matter i think it is best that we just agree to disagree. I believe that we are looking at this from two different angles.

My point of view is as follows, it would be stupid for a union or any other company to make less then sound financial moves with there workers savings, so at this point it is up to the powers that be to make a choice, protect and invest there workers money so they can hopefully pay out all retirement dues that are owed or stick to there morals and risk the financial future of all there union members. I know what i would chose to do, even as much as it might grate me to do so i am going to look out for the people that i consider brothers.


but that is just my opinion

thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe.

reply to post by felonius

You wonderful unions are communist sympathizers at the top and ambivalent sheep (at best) at the bottom.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep regurgitating the BS that has been drummed into your head. Oh... I just got it. In real life you are management. Now it becomes clear.

Y'all are nuts. Without the Unions we would all be in much worse shape than we are now. The same people that put in the Fiat Currency, removed the Gold Standard, smuggled the NAZI war criminals into the US, ushered the NAZI war criminals into the Republican Party, filled the CIA with Bonesmen and oil men, castrated Israel time and time again while they proclaimed publicly they were Pro-Israeli, and told you that Communism is evil, are the same folks who spewed all the BS about the Unions. And it is BS. Our Granparents - ok I am getting old now - Great Grandparents knew the value of Unions, why don't we know it now?

You see the problem when you start to cut through lies is that you cannot see through a mere handful of lies and think you have done something. Seeing the truth is an all or nothing proposition. You have to begin by throwing out everything you have been taught by your sainted mother and your honorable father, and the teachers who molded you, and then as Thomas Jefferson mandated you must "question literally everything." You must decide for yourself what is true and what is false. This requires cancelling your T.V. service and doing what very few people actually do; read! Then you must investigate what you have read. It is a very long process, but if you do not do it this way, if you accept anything you have been told even if only out of laziness, you shortchange yourself. This includes religion. Indeed the motto that I chose for my now defunct website was; "Nothing is as it seems" and nothing could be truer.

Unions, capitalism, communism, corporations, all these systems are only as good or bad as the people who comprise them. What has been held up as examples of the horrors of communism - China and Soviet Union - are just two corrupt versions of something close to communism. Communism, if it is done correctly is an economic system which eliminates the the have's and have-not's. There is no class system in true Communism, no monied class directing the masses. Therefore when the corporate spin doctors branded unions as communist organizations what they were really comparing it to was corrupt totalitarian governments practicing a bastardized form of Communism, not communism in it's true form. But I ask you, are not the same folks that have drilled us to hate the unions because they do not want to pay a fair wage or cut profits for safety concerns, the same folks who have put us where we are in America today?

Unions have made mistakes and carried things away to excess at times, but this in no way negates the history of what they have done for all of us, although much of what the unions rid us of is beginning to creep back in these days. A check of history will reveal this to anyone who looks honestly. How many of you have worked as "contractors" so that you could get the job you needed, when if the union had been there you would have received all the benefits that were due you and you could not have been cut loose like an old rusty boat just as soon as it profited them a nickel to do so.

Some of you guys act like you really do trust the corporations to provide well and fairly for it's workers when the only evidence we have shows us the opposite to be true 99.9% of the time. We see them scheme to save money at the cost of their workers so often that today it would be a newsworthy surprise if a corporation stepped up and did right by it's workers.

History is a necessary knowledge if you are going to discuss anything intelligently, not the least of which is what we are going through financially today. Indeed almost everything we are going through todayare things we as a country experienced in the years that led up to the Great Depression, although because of inflation the numbers are much higher today. But this is so only because of inflation. The trouble with our going through it today is that what took decades to experience then is happening all at at once today.

From a historical and personal point of view Jimmy Hoffa was a national hero and treasure, and I am glad that Jimmy Jr. is trying to live up to his fathers legacy. God bless 'em all. Their fight is the little guys fight, not for entitlements, but for a fair shake. That's all it was about then, and that is all we want now. What could possibly be clearer?