Where Are All The ELENIN Conspiracy Theorists Now?

reply to post by mockrock

If Nasa is issuing warnings to it's workers for their families you should take note.

But I don't live in Florida or Texas. No hurricanes, no wildfires.

reply to post by mockrock

They say it is lower than previously thought.. and that we should just relax, but they keep missing them and only announce as they whizz by.. I argue that they wouldn't tells us. Do you really have trust in NASA!? Can you explain why they issued warnings to all of their staff?

I never said that anyone should relax or that there was no threat. There are less objects to threaten us. Also, read the article and learn that the search process is missing just under 10% of the NEOs of a size specified by Congress.

I posted the info in another thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

They issued warnings to their staff about storms and fires. They do have staff where these are a problem.

reply to post by mockrock

How do you define 'fairly constant'

Nothing is constant. If volcanic activity were constant, then that would be investigated. It isn't exactly cosntant, but it is constant for all practical purposes.

Has volcanic activity been increasing?

Finally, we plot below the record since reasonably comprehensive reporting of global volcanism began in the 1960s. Note that the number of confirmed erupting volcanoes has leveled off between 50 and 70 per year through the past four decades, and a linear regression line through the data indicates that volcanism has been virtually constant.

The graph you provided has nothing to do with volcanoes. I did a check because there were no labels or title on the graph. The graph is claimed to be "showing how the number of all magnitude earthquakes has grown over recent years."

The graph is junk since it is estimated that there are over a million quakes a year on the Earth. The graph at best shows less than 3% of all quakes. What I believe the graph is showing is that the increase in computation power and the increase in the number of recording stations has allowed more earthquakes to be located.

reply to post by mockrock


The news is no way to track events or collect scientific data as you have pointed out.

reply to post by stereologist


UARS satellite - desensitizing exercise.

ROSAT satellite - 9th November 2011 to crash to earth. (again this is getting us used to things falling from the sky so we get bored of the story)

YU55 asteroid 8/9th November. Closest on record near-miss of an asteroid this large.

Same time we pass through the tail of whatever ELEnin actually is..

FEMA orders $1 billion dollars of dehydrated food.

Operation mountain guard practices ‘continuity of government exercises’

Russia builds 5000 bunkers.

Solar storms.

Increase in seismic activity.

Volcano activity increase.

What I find strange is that as soon as there is a report of something strange like the two suns report earlier this year, it is followed by a story which then overtakes the search rankings in google. So now we are told if we do see two suns.. it’s o.k it’s just a distant supernova exploding (past tense would be more accurate as it happened many years ago)

www.dailymail.co.uk...

So we had an alleviated awareness of near objects, so google searches would bring up all the latest and upcoming near misses. Now instead we get NASA’s news conference telling us ‘nothing to see here move on.’ ‘less near earth object than we first thought.’

Like I said before about news channels like fox, which has a hysterical fit about anything terrorist related and tries to extract every ounce of fear from people.. yet it turns all ‘rational’ and appears the voice of reason when talking about potentially dangerous events, such as volcanoes, near earth objects..
www.foxnews.com...

This is the cover story for when we do see something unusual in the sky towards the end of October.

I thought about all this and wondered if FOX was behind the 2012 movie.. another desensitizing exercise.. and yes it was. What it attempts to do is control both sides of the debate, by propagating the ‘conspiracy’ on their terms they can control the debate about it, by mixing in plenty of myths to cloud the truth.

So all we can really do is look at actual events and be cautious about the sources. There is evidence when yellowstone displays worrying seismic activity they simply stop displaying the data to the public ‘The last time I heard of this happening was in 2009, after there had been some very worrisome seismic activity and ground uplift at Yellowstone, and USGS took down all the seismographs for the region on the web. Last night as I was looking at them there were large pieces of data missing, as though it had been edited out.’
volcanogeek.wordpress.com...

This is just a micro example of what NASA et al is doing on a larger scale.. Blanking out areas of the sky to conceal something that would destroy our notion that we have some sort of control.. In reality we are just at the mercy of the forces of nature.

Look you say volcanic activity has not increased.. research individually the top 10 historically most dangerous ones and see what they are doing right now today. Then discuss.

reply to post by mockrock

(again this is getting us used to things falling from the sky so we get bored of the story)

Lot's of junk falls from the sky besides these 2. Skylab made it to the Miss Universe or World or some other pageant. MIR fell . Some other stuff fell off the eastern US a while back.

YU55 asteroid 8/9th November. Closest on record near-miss of an asteroid this large.

Are you sure about that?

Same time we pass through the tail of whatever ELEnin actually is..

Can't pass through the tail.

FEMA orders $1 billion dollars of dehydrated food.

Please provide a time frame and why the order is atypical.

Operation mountain guard practices ‘continuity of government exercises’

Please provide a time frame and why this is atypical.

Russia builds 5000 bunkers.

The work starts in 2012 and won't be completed for what - over a decade?

Solar storms.

Been happening for billions of years. Would be weird if they stopped.

Increase in seismic activity.

This is just plain false. By now we'll call it a lie.

Volcano activity increase.

I already posted to a link to show that is a lie.

What I find strange is that as soon as there is a report of something strange like the two suns report earlier this year, it is followed by a story which then overtakes the search rankings in google. So now we are told if we do see two suns.. it’s o.k it’s just a distant supernova exploding (past tense would be more accurate as it happened many years ago)

There are no 2 suns although hoaxers repeat this often. The Betelgeuse claim is old. Betelgeuse is not close to us.

As NEOs have been detected over the last decade people are more aware of NEOs since the bulk of them were picked up recently.

Then people say that the second sun claim ascribed now to Betelgeuse is a no-go. So pointing out mistakes in earlier reports especially from a poor source is somehow a diversion?

Then there is the Yellowstone claim from some blog. All sorts of rubbish claims where nothing indicates an eruption.

Look you say volcanic activity has not increased.. research individually the top 10 historically most dangerous ones and see what they are doing right now today. Then discuss.

The point is to report accurately, not falsely as you'd like to do. The fact is that global volcanism is not increasing. The fact is that more people live in danger zones than before. Probably the greatest threat to people by a volcano is in Africa. That threat does not mean that global volcanism is changing.

reply to post by stereologist


O.k Stereologist I have a feeling you know the truth..wink wink

I will deal with all of your points in detail on the morrow.

How did you rack up 2040 posts dealing with what to you is obviously nonsense.. Why would an ultra skeptic even be on here, there is not one single example of you deviating from the official line on any subject. Not once, not for one second.. So if you trust the official line what brings you here? Surely there is nothing to learn.

When I quote information from credible sources it is false reporting.. when you do the same it is fact..
How do you decide what sources are credible? Do they need to be official bodies? Such as your pals at NASA.. They have never lied to us have they?

Yes junk does fall from space.. occasionally. In the context of other events the timings for these latest ones are strange. Open your mind for one moment and consider whether it could be possible that there is an ongoing attempt to desensitize people to disaster.. ? The timings of YU55 and the emergency test transmission, doesn't spark your curiosity? The same day another satellite falls from space..

We could go back and forth debunking each others posts for ever.. But I think now is probably the time for fun!

reply to post by mockrock


Emergency test transmission is a red flare for you? Working a night shift you'd see a couple a week. Maybe you're opening your mind up a bit too much to the what could happen in the worst possible way when all I think about is the worst possible way and how the suits are trying infiltrate my brain with death rays!

reply to post by hotbread


aren't they hiding in bunkers?

reply to post by mockrock


Since you're friend wanted you to look into 2012, we can easily debunk that. The date December 21, 2012 comes exclusively from the Mayan Long Count. There a few Long Counts that end on 13 baktun, which using the GMT correlation gives us the date of December 21, 2012. The thing most 2012 "researchers" won't tell you however is that we have many examples of the Long Count and most don't end at 13 baktun. In fact, there are no Long Counts that end at 13 bakun before the arrival of the Spanish. Furthermore, we have examples of dates that go up to a piktun, which is 20 baktun. This would roughly correspond to the year 4772. People also like to claim that 13 baktun is the end of a cycle, but if you actually look at the beliefs of the Mayan you will quickly see that the Long Count never actually ended.

We can also get into the argument that researchers today believe that the GMT correlation is wrong. This would mean that 13 baktun does not correspond to December 21, 2012. In the end though, it becomes clear that the Mayan placed no specific importance on December 21, 2012 and anyone who claims otherwise has relied on faulty research or are outright lying. This also means that any events people try to ascribe to this date are in no way related as there is nothing special about this day, other than being the winter solstice.

reply to post by mockrock


Clearly you made no effort at all to justify any of your stances. Whining is not a worthy debate method.

In review here are claims you made that require some justification:
1. YU55 was the record near miss of an asteroid of its size
2. A time frame for FEMA order and why this is atypical
3. A time frame for Operation Mountain Guard and why this is atypical
4. Why you think a decade or more of construction in Moscow beginning in 2012 is special.
5. Why you falsely claim that there has been an increase in seismic activity
6. Why you continue to falsely claim that there has been an increase in volcanic activity
7. Why you think solar storms now are more of a concern than the others over billions of years
8. Anything else I left off this list

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by mockrock

 

(again this is getting us used to things falling from the sky so we get bored of the story)

Lot's of junk falls from the sky besides these 2. Skylab made it to the Miss Universe or World or some other pageant. MIR fell . Some other stuff fell off the eastern US a while back.

Skylab fell in 1979
Mir March 2001
Quite a gap..
What is the other 'stuff' that fell on eastern US? There was one in 2008 you would not stand for such a vague argument.

2 in one month IS unusual, if you look at the history of crashed satellites.

YU55 asteroid 8/9th November. Closest on record near-miss of an asteroid this large.

Are you sure about that?

Yes: 'Passing by at a distance of just 201,000 miles, the asteroid will be the largest object ever to approach the earth so close.'
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Same time we pass through the tail of whatever ELEnin actually is..

Can't pass through the tail.

yes you are right that is the problem, hit the debris.. more accurate.

FEMA orders $1 billion dollars of dehydrated food.

Please provide a time frame and why the order is atypical.

I've never heard of a shortage of supply before, it has never become news. The reason it appears to be atypical is because it effected supply to smaller customers. This has not been reported before in years prior to 2010. I will send a request for there figures for dehydrated food for the last 10 years.. no doubt they will oblige.

Operation mountain guard practices ‘continuity of government exercises’

Please provide a time frame and why this is atypical.

More than 100 agencies from several different jurisdictions are taking part in a terrorism attack drill on Friday, the largest ever performed in Denver.
www.huffingtonpost.com...
Atypical, largest of it's type.. Why Denver? The time frame.. glad you brought that up I agree it is odd, Obama hangs around in Denver.. the mile high city, where there is a military bunker. He doesn't really seem to want to leave.. with no other visits planned anywhere until late November when he will head to Bali.

Russia builds 5000 bunkers.

The work starts in 2012 and won't be completed for what - over a decade?

Yes I think the Russians will play it differently.. Survivors are going to be very angry at governments all over the world, the action of the government in building these bunkers.. is to be perceived to have tried to help. This is important for maintaining trust after the event.

Solar storms.

Been happening for billions of years. Would be weird if they stopped.

Again it is within the context of other events, that make this interesting.

Increase in seismic activity.

This is just plain false. By now we'll call it a lie.

What data are you using ? A lie is something made up.. here is the data

'But between 1997 and 2007 (incl), a period of only 11 years, there were 99 earthquakes with magnitude 7.0 or greater : This is more than a six-fold increase on the previous similar period - and is a stark increase on any earlier decades in 20th century too.

research.dlindquist.com...

Volcano activity increase.

I already posted to a link to show that is a lie.

But why is it a lie? I present data which is evidence..

iainwillis.files.wordpress.com...

What I find strange is that as soon as there is a report of something strange like the two suns report earlier this year, it is followed by a story which then overtakes the search rankings in google. So now we are told if we do see two suns.. it’s o.k it’s just a distant supernova exploding (past tense would be more accurate as it happened many years ago)

There are no 2 suns although hoaxers repeat this often. The Betelgeuse claim is old. Betelgeuse is not close to us.

My argument is not that Betelgeuse is close by or a risk.. But it is something that can be reeled out to explain if people see anything resembling two suns or something unusual which could cause panic.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by mockrock

 

Clearly you made no effort at all to justify any of your stances. Whining is not a worthy debate method.

In review here are claims you made that require some justification:
1. YU55 was the record near miss of an asteroid of its size
2. A time frame for FEMA order and why this is atypical
3. A time frame for Operation Mountain Guard and why this is atypical
4. Why you think a decade or more of construction in Moscow beginning in 2012 is special.
5. Why you falsely claim that there has been an increase in seismic activity
6. Why you continue to falsely claim that there has been an increase in volcanic activity
7. Why you think solar storms now are more of a concern than the others over billions of years
8. Anything else I left off this list

I also think somebody needs a hug? Ironically your reply sounded whiny.. thus I have debunked your allegation of whinyness by offering you a free hug.

reply to post by mockrock

yes you are right that is the problem, hit the debris.. more accurate.

Elenin is presently several million kilometers above the ecliptic and as time passes it will keep going farther above it. It is absolutely impossible for the debris of Elenin to cross Earth's orbit on the same plane. Even when Elenin was whole its tail would not have been long enough to reach Earth. Elenin was always a non-event, despite what Terral Croft got people to believe.

2005 YU55 is also another non-event. While at one time it was a 1 on the Torino Scale, it's been taken completely off of it for over a year now. At this point there have been enough observations that the margin of error is a minuscule fraction of 1%. In other words, 2005 YU55 does not have a chance of impacting Earth in at least the next 100 years.

As for the earthquakes, I have performed my own statistical analysis and found the there has not been a significant increase in either major earthquakes or total earthquakes. This is just another claim made by fearmongers that don't actually present any kind of math to back up their claims.

reply to post by mockrock


Your psot is really messed up. You probably forgot to close some blocks.

2 in one month IS unusual, if you look at the history of crashed satellites.

Do you expect everything to evenly laid out in time?

The Telegraph article has some mistakes.

will pass between our planet and the moon

That's wrong. It does not.

I'll take the claim of it being the biggest thing we've seen pass by though. Other big ones were in January of 2008 and September 1985.

yes you are right that is the problem, hit the debris.. more accurate.

We are not hitting the tail and the debris is not in our path either.

When is the order to FEMA being placed? When is this order due? Is it a 1 year order? Is it a 10 year order? Is it a 50 year order?

blogs.douglas.co.us...
www.douglas.co.us...
I don't see anything unusual in Operation Mountain Guardian. Looks like a drill done here last year or the year before. It took place on September 23. Was Obama in Denver on the 23rd?
www.upi.com...
NO!

'But between 1997 and 2007 (incl), a period of only 11 years, there were 99 earthquakes with magnitude 7.0 or greater : This is more than a six-fold increase on the previous similar period - and is a stark increase on any earlier decades in 20th century too.

I see the liars are lieing. According to the USGS there are an average of 18 7 or greater quakes a year. Thus there were 11 times 18 or 198 or 100 ore quakes in an 11 year period. Can't those lunatics get anything right? I fyou are going to lie at least get something right. Sheeessh!

earthquake.usgs.gov...

Here is another quake report page
earthquake.usgs.gov...
It shows that from 2000 to 2007 there were 115 quakes 7 or larger. That's 16 larger and I did not include 1997, 1998, or 1999.

Seriously, who are these clowns that don't tell you that the plots use data that is not consistent? Instead of using that crap site why not go to the place where they claim the data originated and use that? Start using reliable sources instead of that pathetic site that can't even count.

I've already shown you the site where these plots came from and why those plots do not tell you what you need to understand.

Each natural hazard is unique in both its frequency and the way in which it affects us. For example, if we look at volcanic hazards, there is a large misconception that eruption activity has increased in the last few years. One of the main reasons for this is the increase of volcanic monitoring. With greater populations living near volcanoes, and with remote sensing techniques being far more advanced, our methods of classifying an eruption have improved radically over the last 50 years. The fact is, we are now able to monitor eruptions in the furthest flung areas of the globe where they were previously unnoticed.

This quote taken from the site you linked to shows that you purposely lied about the contents of the site. Shame on you.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Fear mongers or people genuinely concerned about the safety of the population? Who have no vested interest other than to try and help people if something does happen.

What makes your own statistical analysis more valid than the one I put forward? Explain how you came to yours, did you add the total number of earthquakes, or the combine that with power/frequency?

You mention the USGS I will prove later that they alter data and are not credible, just like NASA they are not independent and are driven by politics.

YU55 is worth taking seriously, with the strong solar activity which can alter trajectory (remember UARS assending and descending*)

More on UARS, when I was watching the live tracker of UARS: I was curious about the tracking application.. I disconnected the internet and noticed this made no difference to the 'live' tracker, it still ascended/descended traveled around the globe.. Incredible how they invented a tracker that works on telepathy.. The tracking app was a load of nonsense, it was designed to scare people.. All part of the doom fatigue plan.

reply to post by mockrock

You mention the USGS I will prove later that they alter data and are not credible, just like NASA they are not independent and are driven by politics.

Then how can you justify the fact that you have misrepresented their data? Regardless of whether or not I believe this claim it certainly makes your postings even more suspect. In a question on volcanoes you posted data based on USGS data about quakes.

YU55 is worth taking seriously, with the strong solar activity which can alter trajectory (remember UARS assending and descending*)

These UARS was affected because it orbited Earth. The change in YU55 is so slight that it is not measurable.

More on UARS, when I was watching the live tracker of UARS: I was curious about the tracking application.. I disconnected the internet and noticed this made no difference to the 'live' tracker, it still ascended/descended traveled around the globe

This shows that the live tracker is using the latest data and then you prevented updates and the code used the last info it had available. I would suggest that the problem is that the tracker did not inform you as to the date and time of the latest update it had or that an update was required. Maybe a simple tracker was not designed to be robust?

reply to post by mockrock



If you say that the recorded increase in seismic activity is simply down to the fact we have better detection, then how can you argue that seismic activity has been fairly constant? Based on your argument the figures cannot be used to argue a case on either side. Historical earthquakes could have been massively over-estimated as buildings were not as able to withstand the damage and poor emergency response compared to modern times.. So I agree lets ignore any of the earthquake figures from now on.

However volcanic eruptions leave a physical trace, using radio carbon dating you don't have to rely upon possibly inaccurate historical records.

If you can accept that government funded bodies which hold the quantitative data may be influenced to alter this for political reasons (eg climate gate scandal) then look at other sources to try and get an independent perspective.. it is important to use both qualitative and quantitative methods. Someone who blogs about volcanoes is just as worth listening to as a politically motivated government body. If someone mentions in a blog about Yellowstone that seismic activity monitors are not released to the public when dangerous activity happens and then you verify this for yourself by checking instances of heightened activity against public censorship of it.. That becomes important information, especially if it is part of a larger trend.

What you are saying is the only data which can be trusted is that that you yourself have analysed.. Do you have peer reviewed papers? what makes you different and more qualified to interpret data. I can go through and do a qualitative study of all of your replies and I can't find a single occasion where you admit to ever being wrong.. are you the oracle ? Global catastrophes have happened before, there is enough evidence to assume our governments would not tell us.. To some extent I agree with them, stock markets would crash and why would we bother going to work? But if they have known about it for a long time.. that changes the argument as there would have been enough to time to collectively work towards our survival as a species, but I suppose that was too much like socialism.

To downplay YU55 is naive, every asteroid that comes close by should be treated with the seriousness it deserves.

The very nature that our governments operations around this are secret means, we are not going to get a report on how much was spent on bunkers, emergency food etc.. But if perhaps you found an instance of a missing 2 trillion dollars on public record then that could be the 'smoking gun'

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld declared war. ... "According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted. ... about the millions he noticed were missing from one defense agency's balance sheets. www.cbsnews.com...
(revealed the day before 9/11)

reply to post by stereologist


A simple tracker designed to alert you if you could be that 1-3200 person not robust, no accurate tracking devise!
Does that sound plausible? They can detect an incoming missile but they cannot track a satellite, this is just complete nonsense and I can't understand why nobody has pulled them up on it. If they knew where it was in lower orbit then as it's temperature increased it would have been easy to detect..

reply to post by mockrock


News is a good way to work out what is going on, if you look at it in a skeptical way. Question timing, who stands to gain from this being released right now? Is there a pattern of information/disinformation.