Where Are All The ELENIN Conspiracy Theorists Now?

reply to post by diamondsmith


I think you may be misunderstanding me, perhaps I was not being clear myself. I'm not completely discrediting the possibility of it being a meteorite from space. They found no evidence of that though. A couple "eyewitness account" but no remains. What I want to know is what any of that has to do with Elenin?

reply to post by consciousgod

And gravity is still a theory of an effect that has no known cause.

And if one doesn't really know what causes the effect, then one doesn't really comprehend the problem.

And if one doesn't comprehend the problem, then the theory is a wild ass guess.

If the theory is a wild ass guess, educated or not, the theory is simply conjecture.

Until someone figures out what causes gravity, the effects are simply miracles that cannot be explained because one can simply say, God causes gravity, and no one can prove otherwise.

You begin with the right idea and then go off the deep end.

It is true that the cause of gravity is not well understood. That has no bearing on the ability to make very strong predictions based on what is known. It does not make the long history of excellent predictions any weaker. It does alter the situation that observable facts are well described by the theory.

It's really laughable that you would call any of the predictions such as the Earth receding 15cm a year from the Sun a miracle. It's even funnier to mix religion into this.

The problem as we have discussed before is that you do not understand the meaning of the word theory when it is used in science.

Originally posted by diamondsmith
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread756912/pg13#pid12457994] we are better and faster then you guys,maybe the following days will bring you what you so desperate do not wan't to became public!you will see just patience,please......very please!

We?

What do I not want made public? What are you implying?

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by consciousgod

 

Then why believe anything? Even if one day EU hypothesis becomes a theory it too will be disproven one day. So why support it? We have to go on with what we have and so far the theories we have make accurate predictions. Could they be wrong? Probably. But why discount them before that's even proven? They serve their purpose and they drive the experiments that allow science to progress.

All Dogs Have Their Day?

If we don't question, then progress isn't made.

Can't question without alternative ideas that drive the questions.

Fringe today, mainstream tomorrow.

reply to post by consciousgod

EM is caused by the interaction of charged particles.

Light is part of EM and is not charged.

The whole Elenin thing was riding on the earthquake correlation. That was the only strong line of evidence.

The alignments and quakes were not on the same days. The claimants lied and faked the data.

Regarding EU, If you have been watching Nasa, you would know that the Aurora Australis is glowing like the atmosphere is on green fire and Nasa says its because the Earth is electromagnetically connected to the sun. What theory does this support?

Why not just point out that we receive light from the Sun? The existence of ionized particles does not support EU. The issue is whether or not the forces involved shape the solar system. You seem to be happy that there is sufficient energy to make a minuscule portion of the atmosphere glow.

Regarding Newton. Yes, his work did provide for somewhat accurate predictions, but these predictions do not work well enough to be used to calculate satellite orbits today. GR is used because the results better match the observations. This indicates that Newton's work has limits and that his predictions are no longer valid for modern day use. His equations are obsolete.

GR is needed for GPS, not for launching. GR is only employed for more accurate position resolution.

reply to post by CapnSnazz

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by consciousgod

 

And gravity is still a theory of an effect that has no known cause.

And if one doesn't really know what causes the effect, then one doesn't really comprehend the problem.

And if one doesn't comprehend the problem, then the theory is a wild ass guess.

If the theory is a wild ass guess, educated or not, the theory is simply conjecture.

Until someone figures out what causes gravity, the effects are simply miracles that cannot be explained because one can simply say, God causes gravity, and no one can prove otherwise.

You begin with the right idea and then go off the deep end.

It is true that the cause of gravity is not well understood. That has no bearing on the ability to make very strong predictions based on what is known. It does not make the long history of excellent predictions any weaker. It does alter the situation that observable facts are well described by the theory.

It's really laughable that you would call any of the predictions such as the Earth receding 15cm a year from the Sun a miracle. It's even funnier to mix religion into this.

The problem as we have discussed before is that you do not understand the meaning of the word theory when it is used in science.

I think it crazy to say you know what something is when you admit you don't know what something is.. It's gravity that causes the receding, but what is gravity? It's an unknown.

"not well understood" So tell me the not well understood, because right now, I think the cause of gravity is not understood, and there is no "well".

The cause of gravity is NOT understood and the effects are understood as observed.

Now, I can take a wild ass guess and say gravity is the by-product of quantum EMF polarity caused by quantum spin. Can you prove me wrong?

reply to post by consciousgod

I think it crazy to say you know what something is when you admit you don't know what something is.. It's gravity that causes the receding, but what is gravity? It's an unknown.

"not well understood" So tell me the not well understood, because right now, I think the cause of gravity is not understood, and there is no "well".

The cause of gravity is NOT understood and the effects are understood as observed.

Now, I can take a wild ass guess and say gravity is the by-product of quantum EMF polarity caused by quantum spin. Can you prove me wrong?

Would it be possible to accurately predict day and night without knowing how the Sun what the Sun is? Do you have to know what is the cause of the light from the Sun?

Many laws such as Coulomb's Law were worked out before EM theory was formulated. Electrical theory and magnetic theory were viable before the two were merged.

The theory of gravity is well understood, has stood up to many tests, and understands that the cause of the force is not understood.

reply to post by consciousgod

Comparing gravity to electrons is comparing apples to oranges. Gravity is an effect. An electron is a thing. If you want to make a comparison, compare things that are somewhat similar. We know what causes electromagnetism. We don't know what causes gravity.

What causes electromagnetism? Electrons... so answer the question: what causes electrons? Your ontological reasoning applies to EU just as it does to conventional physics.

EM is caused by the interaction of charged particles. Tell me what causes gravity? Could gravity simply be the effects of polarity similar to what makes a water molecule polar? I don't know. Do you?

Again, what causes particles to be charged? An "electron" is just a description of one aspect of an interaction. Why do they behave that way? I understand the description of the interactions, but I don't understand why it is necessary for them to behave the way they do. Do you?

The whole Elenin thing was riding on the earthquake correlation. That was the only strong line of evidence. The experiment indicates this correlation was a staggering coincidence so far. It doesn't mean the EU theory is wrong. It means Elenin didn't cause the earthquakes.

No, all the evidence indicates that it was a completely predictable and mundane coincidence. In fact, what is statistically striking is the complete absence of M6+ earthquakes this week! As for proving the EU theory wrong, had there been an M8 earthquake on the 28th, would you not have claimed that the EU theory has been proven? It's a very convenient theory that can be proven but not disproven. At least we are in agreement on one thing: Elenin didn't cause the earthquakes.

Regarding EU, If you have been watching Nasa, you would know that the Aurora Australis is glowing like the atmosphere is on green fire and Nasa says its because the Earth is electromagnetically connected to the sun. What theory does this support?

Conventional solar electrohydrodynamics. If it didn't, wouldn't NASA censor it to keep McKinney in his place?

Regarding Newton. Yes, his work did provide for somewhat accurate predictions, but these predictions do not work well enough to be used to calculate satellite orbits today. GR is used because the results better match the observations. This indicates that Newton's work has limits and that his predictions are no longer valid for modern day use. His equations are obsolete.

Simply wrong. It is drag from the Earth's atmosphere and the solar wind that make it difficult to predict satellites orbits accurately in the real world. Newton's laws assume idealized conditions. They work well enough to loft a satellite into the proper orbit or send a probe on the correct trajectory, but the real world is full of non-relativistic bumps. Mid-course corrections are necessary, but it is Newton's equations that are used, not Einstein's. Newton's equations are far from obsolete, unless one is dealing with phenomena with velocities approaching the speed of light.

And one day, Einstein's equations may be obsolete as well. It's just a matter of time until something better comes along. This is true for all theories even the dirty snow ball.

The latest mysterious findings from Gran Sasso notwithstanding, Einstein's theories, like Newton's before him, are more likely to be refined in the future, rather than discarded.

Where are all the ELENIN conspiracy theorists now?

Crazy how people would come up with conspiracies surrounding these events..

Asteroid YU55 0.00217 near miss 8/9th November

First ever national EAS test is planned for 9th November (emergency transmission across radio/tv all networks)

A German satellite due to crash down 9th November. ROSAT - While slightly smaller than UARS, the German satellite is expected to have more pieces survive re-entry. The German space agency estimated that it has a 1-in-2000 chance of hitting someone - higher than the 1-in-3,200 odds NASA gave for UARS.


Increase in Solar activity.
Power cuts threat as sun storm hits earth

Sun spots: charged particles
head for earth :A huge mass of electrically-charged particles thrown out by a gigantic eruption on the Sun is due to strike the Earth tonight.
Scientists expect it to trigger one of the most violent geomagnetic storms ever recorded.
The result could be widespread power surges and even blackouts, disrupted TV and mobile phone signals, and broken down communication satellites.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

I live in the UK, it is the October 1st, we are having the hottest day on record for this time of year +12 degrees above normal ! Would be interested to know if any other countries that would normally be stepping into winter are having a strange balmy episode !

reply to post by mockrock


Can I also add..

After NASA has sent warnings to all it's staff to have a disaster plan.

And the recent bizarre news conference on near earth objects.

Whilst a dramatic increase in seismic activity has occurred and a huge increase in volcano activity www.volcanolive.com...

And the naming of a comet with Leonid Elenin.. a more sensitive name may have been appropriate ! E L E N I N
Constellation LEO extinction level event nibiru in november.

Stock market crashes to lowest in 9 years.

The president keeps hanging around Denver, where it is the airport is a military bunker. He stays in this area despite the occupy wall street protest.. and he stays there, when usually these stops are brief to cover more ground in the run up to election campaign.





Crazy how we conspiracy nuts are concerned there is something we have not be told about..

reply to post by mockrock

And the naming of a comet with Leonid Elenin.. a more sensitive name may have been appropriate ! E L E N I N
Constellation LEO extinction level event nibiru in november.

I can see you're a busy man. At least now you don't have to worry about connecting this dot any more.
(Interesting... due to the margin setting and the spacing, ELENIN turned into E-LENIN and I thought: Why hasn't anyone thought to claim it was named E. Lenin, after Vladimir's useless brother who played clarinet in a klezmer band?)

reply to post by mockrock


You managed to make a list without mentioning a conspiracy.

You had a hot day and I had a cold day. You say tomato and I say ...

reply to post by mockrock

And the recent bizarre news conference on near earth objects.

You think it is bizarre that the threat is lower than previous thought?

Whilst a dramatic increase in seismic activity has occurred and a huge increase in volcano activity

Actually volcanic activity is fairly constant over the last 50 years.

Stock market crashes to lowest in 9 years.

Wow. 9 years is like an eternity.

reply to post by DJW001


I am a busy man.. Google Mock rock climbing I own one of the most successful climbing companies in the world.. I work 12 hours a day every day ! Much easier to attempt a personal insult than deal with any of the facts I mentioned. If something bad is to happen, I would want to help as many people as possible.. Would our governments want the same? The contempt they treat us with from using our taxes for the bank bailouts to manipulating us into agreeing to illegal wars.. I suspect they would just protect themselves. Of course I don't want anything bad to happen! Life has never been better, I love my job and have never been the type to search for doom.. A friend asked me to look into all this 2012 stuff, my plan was to debunk it! But I couldn't. I would really like someone to ! So reply with some info to help me do this.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by mockrock

 

And the recent bizarre news conference on near earth objects.

You think it is bizarre that the threat is lower than previous thought?

They say it is lower than previously thought.. and that we should just relax, but they keep missing them and only announce as they whizz by.. I argue that they wouldn't tells us. Do you really have trust in NASA!? Can you explain why they issued warnings to all of their staff?

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by mockrock

 

Whilst a dramatic increase in seismic activity has occurred and a huge increase in volcano activity

Actually volcanic activity is fairly constant over the last 50 years.

How do you define 'fairly constant'
www.earth.webecs.co.uk...

If you add the figures from what has happened this year so far.. dramatic increase is no exaggeration.

reply to post by mockrock


I would also say instead of going on sites that list all volcano activity collectively, search individually the news on the top 10.. This is the problem, news can only handle one disaster at a time and of course Google filters to what it thinks will be relevant to you locally.

For example if you search 'Mount Tambora news' you will get an article from fox news saying 'not likely to repeat killing blast'

But search 'mount tambora indonesia news' you will get 'stories such as 'Tambora volcano in Indonesia has been raised to level 3 alert (out of maximum 4)'

Fox plays down the danger.. But read this www.google.com...

reply to post by mockrock


No offense, but since March, this BBS has been crammed with very hard scientific fact that explains why comet Elenin was never a menace. Had you paid attention to that, you would not have been surprised that there were no catastrophes last week. There is a similar amount of research available here and elsewhere online to help you weight the merits of the various other doomsday prophecies, including 2012. This might be a good place to start:

yowcrooks.wordpress.com...

reply to post by DJW001


If Nasa is issuing warnings to it's workers for their families you should take note.

Just have a plan and if nothing happens party time !!

www.nasa.gov...

www.youtube.com...

beers on me and full humble apology on November 9th !