Am i the only one who supports Israel

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

And whats the hate part of Zionism??

Which zionist "scripture" speaks of hate???

You are kidding, right?

A. Judaism is not a monotheistic religion.
B. Judaism is a "Tribal Religion" (according to the experts).
C. The key commandment is something to the effect of "thou shalt not put any other god before me".

That makes it quite clear that there are other gods and that the Hewbrew or Jewish god is just one of those gods.

As you know that ancient people we now call Jews even though they were not called Jews in their time "fell" away from their god many times. That is one reason why experts say every "Jew" is a convert because they had to convert back to standard (which there never really was a standard Judaic religion because they re-wrote the Torah) Judaism. The ancient people we now call Jews believed their were other gods but had their own private god.

This is where the evil comes from.

I know, I know, this is smashing your world to bits but read on.

The Ten Commandments and all of the Jewish laws are not for Gentiles and do not cover Gentiles.

When the Ten Commandments say do not kill that means do not kill another "Jew". Jews are free to kill Gentiles and that includes US sailors on the USS Liberty as well as Christian and Muslim Palestinians.

At the heart of Zionism is the ideology that Jews are superior to Gentiles and they need a "clean" land to keep themselves pure. This is why the Zionists expelled the Palestinians and want to expell all of the non-Jews in Israel.

The Zionist ideology says that Gentiles are evil and so evil in fact that "Jews" should not live near them and should have their own country.

Zionism has failed in many ways but the fact that less than 50% of the world's "Jews" buy the fraud to the extent that they don't wan't to live there is its greatest failure.

It has accomplished alot in the area of promoting what they call anti-Semitism, however.

As you know the early Zionist knew that they had to drum up as much hate against "Jews" as possible to drive the "Jews" like smelly goats to Zion.

Didn't Ze'ev Jabotinsky describe the "smelly goat" strategy in detail in one of his racist books?

At least Ze'ev Jabotinsky is honest. You might be able to describe him as a honest / dishonest radical Zionist of the first order. He is an open racist and is not afraid to call for the murder of non-Jews. Well, I guess it is not really murder.

So there you go. Now you know the ideology behind Zionism.

Knowing what you know now it makes it easier to understand how Israel can use WP against kids, rape young girls and lie about it.

reply to post by dontreally

You people are such ignoramuses....

How nice of you. It's funny how the Israel supporters always seem to resort to petty name calling. Blindly defending all the atrocities Israel commits. Once these crimes get exposed they are quick to defend their Zionist masters.

And OP. I wish you were the only Israel supporter on ATS. It would save us from a lot of pointless debate and devious propaganda.

reply to post by BRAVO949


This site is a sad place when you can say "Judaism is not a monotheistic religion" and your post gets two stars.

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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

This site is a sad place when you can say "Judaism is not a monotheistic religion" and your post gets two stars.

Dear DontReally,

Religions can be studied the same way touth decay can be studied.

You may not like it when the dentist tells you that your precious child has a dental cavity but it is still true.

Experts on religion don't go out and ask the followers of the religion whether they feel their religion is monotheistic or not. Instead they look at the religious documents.

Don't blame me or this forum for the fact that experts on religion say "Judaism is not a monotheistic religion."

As I mentioned above the second sacred Mitzvot mentions the fact from a Judaic point of view that there is more than one god. How much more clear can that be. Virtually right off the bat multiple gods are mentioned.

Officially Judaism claims there is more than one god. Simple as that.

You might conclude that Zionism recognises that other people have other gods and that is the very reason that Jews have to live away from them.

From the Judaic point of view Christians and Muslims are either praying to a god that is totally ignoring them because he / it is the god of the Jews and only of the Jews or they are praying to a different god.

Please correct me if I am wrong but aren't there lots of Jews who are disgusted with Christians and Muslims for claiming the Judaic god as their own?

Really - this is the core of Zionism.

People claim that the early Zionists were not religious but what is religion and where does religion stop and culture start. The early Zionists were culturally Jewish if not religious and cultural Jewishness defined Zionism and Israel is the plant from that seed and it has turned out exactly as one would have expected.

At the heart of Zionism is Talmudism not the Torah. We all know the Torah forbids Jews from making a claim to land they lost because they turned away from G_d.

Some people say that Israel has turned out to be an example of the worst aspects of Jewish culture which links to the OP.

Zionists would like us to think that people codemn Israel because they hate Jews.

No - people condemn Jews because they hate Israel because of what Israel does and what it now represents.

The OP author is not the only person who supports Israel but the important point is the numbers of people who do is diminishing so he or she may feel like the last rabbi to flee the ship.

reply to post by BRAVO949


Youre way too obnoxious a poster to have a conversation with.

Israel was created in 1948, 1984 was written in 1948.

Israel is a police state. You must have your ID on you at all times. You must serve in the military, so it is worse than a police state it is a military state. There is the heaviest use of double think of any other nation, "we must protect ourselves by relentlessly aggravating our enemies." Israel is, just like in 1984, a target of perpetual rocket attacks, which always drives up fear. The mossad is perhaps the most dangerous intelligence outfit on the planet, much like the thought police. And they even have thought-crime, which is assuming they are bad because of their actions, and that is anti-Semitic. Or anti-Jewish as the terminology changes from time to time.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

You're way too obnoxious a poster to have a conversation with.

The discussion was just getting down to the brass tacks.

You can't quit now.

Come on back!

You know I could not care less if anyone calls me names and I hope Big Brother does not erase your message.

Just post a reply.

Originally posted by Immune
May 1948 Israel was formed to provide a "safe" place for Jewish people to call home within the boundaries of Ancient Israel.. Since being reformed in 1948 it was attacked in 1963 in which it destroyed Egypt, Jordan and Syria in 6 days. Then in 1973 they fought off both Egypt and Syria again and since 1978 they have been under constant terrorist attacks killing many of their men women and children.Every time they strike back at the ones attacking them they are called criminals and promptly judged the bad guys The Israeli people live in constant fear of attacks they are surrounded by countries who refuse to even acknowledge their existence as a state. The Palestinians have blatantly said when they achieve statehood they will throw every Jew out of their borders. Wouldn't everyone love to have a neighbor who openly is disgusted with your existence. As for the West bank and Gaza strip if i was Israel i wouldn't give them to the Palestinians the land was won in the 6 day war which they did not start to the victor goes the spoils if not the turkey needs to give back the land in Cyprus that they won in 1974. Israel is in a real bad place they attack the terrorist attacking them and they are the bad guys,they get attacked and they are still the bad guys keep up the fight Israel and stand firm don't negotiate with the terrorist.

I am Israeli.
I'm in agreement with you OP.

reply to post by BRAVO949


Ok, I'll bite.

I was born and raised in a traditional jewish home in Toronto, and I attended private hebrew school for several years before switching to public high school. I can state unequivocally based on personal experience and education that Judaism is absolutely a monotheistic religion (the first monotheistic religion in history as a matter of fact), and is reinforced as such within every sect of modern Judaism. The reason the ten commandments and 613 mitzvot demand that jews should not worship any other gods before the Almighty God is because in ancient times, it was common for people of all faiths to worship several deities, so the commandments had to be worded accordingly. By no means does this justify the belief in other gods within Judaism. In fact, one of the most serious sins in the jewish faith is to worship idols representing deities.

Now, regarding the subject matter of this thread, I have a question for you, as your opinions seem to be based on the fundamental principles of extreme Zionist ideology. I wasn't familiar with Zionist conspiracy theories until I joined ATS. So correct me if I'm wrong...

If you truly subscribe to the Zionist conspiracy theory, you are suggesting that a small group of jewish and non jewish global elites orchestrated or exploited the genocide of 6 million jews among others in the Holocaust in order to garner public sympathy and support for the creation of an independent jewish state at the conclusion of World War II. Subsequently, Israel has been placed in it's biblical homeland, albeit a region where jewish statehood would naturally be met with extreme opposition and animosity. Israel has been the focal point of continuous military and terrorists attacks as a result. In a sense, the jews were nothing but pawns in the grand scheme of the elaborate Zionist conspriracy, victims of circumstance, correct?

Now, considering that the Israeli government has historically been elected by the democratic process, and not unilaterally appointed, is it not fair to assume that by extension, the government of Israel is also a victim of circumstance, placed in a no win situation if you will?

Whether by design or not, given the political climate in the region, I'm not sure Israel could have done anything differently to negotiate peace while simultaneoulsy trying to ensure the security of it's citizens. I understand the settlement issue and I don't agree with it, but the last time settlements were dismantled in Gaza and the West Bank, it backfired on the left wing Israeli government under Ehud Olmert. There are greater obstacles to peace in the region than settlements.

In my opinion, your interpretation of Zionism is not analagous with the principles of Judaism or the true meaning of conventional Zionism.

Oh, and if you plan on responding with your amusing albeit nonsensical rhetoric about evil Zionism, Israel raping young girls, and selling Palestinian human organs on the black market and the like, don't bother.

reply to post by Humanity4Ever


I support Israel,and this is why..God says who ever blesses Israel will be blessed,The Jewish people or Jesus people,Hints Jesus old stomping grounds. We all have are old stomping grounds where we grew up..Being a christian makes the Jewish people who are Christians my brothers and sisters even though im a Gentile. So since Jesus loves Israel and Jerusalem,then I love them as well. Doesn't mean i have to happy about things that are not correct in what some may do there but not all in Israel are bad..Yes i support and pray for Israel and Jerusalem

reply to post by eeks4


So what about those of us that don't believe in your God or believe in other Gods? Land rights are not determined by what is said in a book written by man thousands of years ago.

Jesus loves ALL people, he doesn't hold preference for Jews or for people living in a certain area. Do you think Jesus would support what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinian children?

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

So correct me if I'm wrong...

If you truly subscribe to the Zionist conspiracy theory, you are suggesting that a small group of jewish and non jewish global elites orchestrated or exploited the genocide of 6 million jews among others in the Holocaust in order to garner public sympathy and support for the creation of an independent jewish state at the conclusion of World War II. Subsequently, Israel has been placed in it's biblical homeland, albeit a region where jewish statehood would naturally be met with extreme opposition and animosity. Israel has been the focal point of continuous military and terrorists attacks as a result. In a sense, the jews were nothing but pawns in the grand scheme of the elaborate Zionist conspriracy, victims of circumstance, correct?

edit on 28-9-2011 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

You got that bit right, well done. You didn't mention the part where Hitler worked with zionists to establish a jewish presence in Palestine thereby paving the way for the allies to continue his work after the war.

There's a whole bunch of other stuff your going to learn about but that's maybe enough for one day.

Originally posted by Nammu
reply to post by eeks4

 

So what about those of us that don't believe in your God or believe in other Gods? Land rights are not determined by what is said in a book written by man thousands of years ago.

Jesus loves ALL people, he doesn't hold preference for Jews or for people living in a certain area. Do you think Jesus would support what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinian children?

edit on 28-9-2011 by Nammu because: (no reason given)

Do you think Jesus would support what the Royal Air Force did to a multitude of German children in retaliation for the Nazi rocket attacks on English civilians in WWII?

Do you think Jesus would support what the U.S. did to millions of Japanese children in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in retaliation for the attacks on Pearl Harbor?

Let's get one thing straight. Unlike other nations who faced direct attacks on thier civilians, Israel has never targeted civilians. The IDF has always done everything possible to minimize civilian casualties in response to terror attacks. Palestinian terrorist groups hide behind women and children after launching attacks on Israeli civilians, so if Palestinian children have died, blame Hamas and Hezbollah.

Originally posted by Nammu
reply to post by eeks4

 

So what about those of us that don't believe in your God or believe in other Gods? Land rights are not determined by what is said in a book written by man thousands of years ago.

Jesus loves ALL people, he doesn't hold preference for Jews or for people living in a certain area. Do you think Jesus would support what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinian children?

edit on 28-9-2011 by Nammu because: (no reason given)

You are so correct on what you just said.Absolutely not..I don't think that god likes one bit what is going on with the Israeli government and the children. Makes me wonder if this is why God is so upset with Israel right now..How ever this is Jesus home land no matter how much sin is there..God will take care of it.Nations are already coming against Israel. Ill try to find something to back up my statement..Thanks for the reply..LOL..Oh not sure what i can post from other places here..The bible explains all of this very well..Thats is why the bible was made at least one of the reasons..

reply to post by Humanity4Ever


Dear Humanity4Ever,

I will respond to your post in a few messages just to keep these posts down to a size people will actually read.

So - where do we start to have a real discussion on this topic?

How about this statement?

The real issue with regard to the legitimacy of Israel is not the argument but the premise.

In this case the set of a dozen fundamental premises or so.

If I agreed with your premises then I actually would agree with your argument.

***********

Can we agree that the argument is much more a matter of opinion or interpretation than the set of "facts" we could possibly agree on that are the premises?

I sure hope so, otherwise it just becomes a shouting match.

Here is an important point.

***********

There is another important point to be made.

You have told us that you are Jewish and I think it is fair to conclude that you have an emotional stake in this debate.

The fact is, I don't have an emotional stake in this issue.

My identity does not change one bit if you prove X or Y.

On the other hand for people in your case who identify with Zionism and that includes many Christians not just Jews, accepting certain facts that counter what you now believe about Zionism threatens your identity.

Please tell me if this much makes sense to you?

Humity4Ever

Here is a video of the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields.

IDF using Palestinian as human shield

IDF using Palestinian as human shield

Originally posted by BRAVO949
reply to post by Humanity4Ever

 

Dear Humanity4Ever,

I will respond to your post in a few messages just to keep these posts down to a size people will actually read.

So - where do we start to have a real discussion on this topic?

How about this statement?

The real issue with regard to the legitimacy of Israel is not the argument but the premise.

In this case the set of a dozen fundamental premises or so.

If I agreed with your premises then I actually would agree with your argument.

***********

Can we agree that the argument is much more a matter of opinion or interpretation than the set of "facts" we could possibly agree on that are the premises?

I sure hope so, otherwise it just becomes a shouting match.

Here is an important point.

***********

There is another important point to be made.

You have told us that you are Jewish and I think it is fair to conclude that you have an emotional stake in this debate.

The fact is, I don't have an emotional stake in this issue.

My identity does not change one bit if you prove X or Y.

On the other hand for people in your case who identify with Zionism and that includes many Christians not just Jews, accepting certain facts that counter what you now believe about Zionism threatens your identity.

Please tell me if this much makes sense to you?

I am jewish but I am not religious. I am a secular, spritual, open minded individual, and I am willing to listen to unconventional theories if the opinions presented are based on a reasonable premise as opposed to hateful propaganda.