The 9/11 'jumpers

reply to post by Eirian


has anyone considered that they did not jump , is it not possible that they were hanging out of the windows trying to breathe but passed out due to the lack of oxygen and lost their grip .
the smoke and toxic fumes plus the heat must have been horrendous

Originally posted by hardee2k11
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Disagree for reasons already mentioned in this thread by me and others.

Doesn't matter anyhow even if it is "self murder". As a former christian and with an IQ slightly above a turnip, I do remember a few things.

Jesus died on the cross over 30 years ago to take away all our sins eternally..should we confess and lay our sins on him, we are forgiven.
So, what the churchism is suggesting is that Jesus's ability to take on sins is limited...but that is incorrect. Is suicide (general, not even jumper gray area) a sin? sure...same as lying or stealing, however, all it takes is a request of forgiveness...or rather, the allowance of jesus's salvation and its all washed clean.
so, chances are, if the dudes jumping even gave a half thought about jesus before doing the deed, then jesus took their sin of suicide and gave them their salvation that is already earned through his crusifiction.

Some neat little write ups about suicide:

If Jesus bore that person's sins on the cross 2000 years ago, and if suicide was not covered, then the Christian was never saved in the first place and the one sin of suicide is able to undo the entire work of the cross of Christ. This cannot be. Jesus either saves completely or he does not.

Basically, if the person accepted christ beforehand...then he accepted christ for all time. So, theoretically, even if as a child the person accepted christ to save the person, then ya...the suicide is also covered...you would probably have to reject specificially which sins you want salvation from beforehand..otherwise its covered.

So anyhow...the real question is...
Are the ones that judge the jumpers outside of gods grace? They are clearly becoming judgemental gods themselves and deciding who is and isn't dammed...and that is a clear violation of the bible's first commandment. As a deity, which one would I have more forgivness for...a person whom took their own life due to circumstances that would lead to the end of life anyhow, or someone pretending to be me with all my vast wisdom and judgement and turning many away from me because of what their chimp mouth is saying in my sted...hmm...seems obvious to me, but hey, I digress.

reply to post by flexy123


because people like that wouldnt know reality and 'real' if it hit em in the butts with a big pointy stick. some people well...they do it for the attention, some truly belive what they are debating etc ( those i have no probs with ...too an extent untill it gets fanatical.) the people you should be concerned with are the ones who will not even glance at what opposing posting might say, no matter what kinds 'evidence' or theories etc they put forward, the one who are so far out the box they are out of the solar system near the edge of the universe. its those people that scare me.

reply to post by AllUrChips


You heard wrong.
What shape would the world be in if it wasn't for hypocrits?
There would be no fun.

Why do we even NEED this stupid debate?

How can you even remotely think "they took their own life"?

They would have "taken" their own life by staying....or jumping back in the flames....or staying in the burning room...or trying to inhale the smoke inside etc. NO MATTER WHAT *their life would have been taken* but they did not "take their own life".

If you even remotely think they "took their own life" no matter how they died in 9/11 you should have your head examined.

reply to post by hardee2k11


How about you look at it this way....since you allege you are a believer of God

Catholics, Jews and most Protestants do not believe in cremation

Among these jumpers would had been God fearing people who believe their souls are forever gone if they are cremated

There was no possibility, even a slight one, they would live...that choice was already taken from them

To save their souls at least; it was definate cremation or die with their souls intact

I would had chosen the latter

Originally posted by pshea38
Falling Man Shots Are Faked
(just like most 9/11 shots and most victims).
We have been, and continue to be, suckered!
Happy 10th anniversary!

Whew, glad to hear that
I was worried someone died that day.

Incidentally, I remember watching the live news feed and seeing distance shots of people jumping now and then, was amazed the news team continued to cover it considering it was obviously people that were occasionally leaping out.

Those Photoshop experts must be really fast at scribbling people outlines on live TV. Wonder if they are hiring, granted, I cannot scribble at 35 frames per second, but still...I can maybe do the poster or something.


I would be interested to research into the clear psychological disorder that refuses to accept morbid realization but instead creates a conspiracy to remove that acceptance. such fragile minds...but its probably more comfortable than dealing with the reality of the situation...still...if one of their loved ones die, will they simply think the loved one was abducted by aliens and replaced with a dead husk? that can't be healthy in the long run, though it does make the living with death bit a little more comfortable I guess since you simply dismissed it from being part of your reality.

Originally posted by MajorTom4754
reply to post by toothpastert

 

Have you seen how jet li and other martial artists climb up and down buildings?
2nd Line.

edit on 10-9-2011 by MajorTom4754 because: Added 2nd line.

And Jet Li is harnessed to ropes.

What an appalling species we are if you would turn your back on a person because of religion, especially in this sad situation.

I chatted to a fireman about people who jumped and he explained that it was a choice the brain made for them as for that space of time they would not be burning and in pain so the brain forced them to jump. Apparently during the course of his work he had a chance to ask jumpers who had somehow lived from high falls what made them do it.

But of course, religion just must seen to be playing a part in everything, even in a situation so terrible that you would never wish on anyone, religion gets to 'judge' that person.

More fool those that allow that faith to rule such awful happenings.

How people can justify all their life based up religion disgusts me, to use religion to justify the slaughter of someone, to justify disowning a family member because this innocent person is not in tune with your faith, to justify hurting your own children because of orders from men with no credible backing...

So sad...This is why we will fail as a race, life has become less precious daily, we may as follow the lemmings off a cliff..

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by pshea38


Those Photoshop experts must be really fast at scribbling people outlines on live TV. Wonder if they are hiring, granted, I cannot scribble at 35 frames per second, but still...I can maybe do the poster or something.

Thank you. Thank you. There is simply no way to edit photos or video on a live feed. And it was 29.97 f.p.s. What amazes me by the "Truthers" is that they simply do not know the technology. What they also do not grasp is the videos by witnesses who were on the street and in buildings nearby. They also cannot grasp the idea that these live feeds were not only live for American televions, but British, German, French, Australian and many other news services as their reporters were showing this. To imply a conspiracy by our government and MSM, then that means that Al-Jazeera was also part of the conspiracy.

Live means live. What is so hard to grasp about that?

edit on 9/11/2011 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)

It's not really fully stated to my knowledge in many religious texts on suicide. I imagine God would make an exception if there were.

I really don't think it was a "choice"..watching some of this awful footage it is indeed clear THEY HAD NO CHOICE.

Imagine hanging out there with your arms grabbin on to something (some pictures show people's arms burned/burning while they fall..)..basically one side of the body already burnt to the bones - at one time THERE IS NO CHOICE they need to let go, can't hold on any longer. (I am pretty sure that most/if not all people there needed to let go at some moment, so it was not their "choice"...i am pretty sure that most people tried to hang there as long as they could)

reply to post by flexy123


I agree. I do not think this was suicide. This was an act of desperate measures by people caught in a very horrific situation.

We never call people who run into fires to save people suicides. We never call people who jump in rivers to save people suicides. The people on the towers were not going to be saved, so this is not suicide. The only ones who committed suicide that day were the plane hijackers. They are not martyrs. They were murderers.

Originally posted by pshea38
(just like most 9/11 shots and most victims).
We have been, and continue to be, suckered!
Happy 10th anniversary!

Please don't post anymore links to that forum. It makes people who are really trying to look for the truth of what happened on 9/11 silly and ignorant. But that may have been your point?

I mean that thread(forum) is probably the most idiotic thing I've seen in a long time.

You have 2 or 3 people who don't know crap about the architecture of the WTC towers, and have no idea how low rez video, and image enhancement works/looks. Trying to say no one actually jumped out of the Trade towers.

I hope they are just disinfo agents, and don't actually believe in what they are trying to convince eachother of because if they really do believe what they are trying to say...., then I must stand in awe at the depths of human stupidity displayed by simonshack, and the real deal (or whatever thier user names are).

ANYWAY........

To the point of this thread. None of these people committed suicide. Commiting suicide is when you WANT to die, and you take your own life. None of these people afaik actually went to the top of those building that morning with the intention of jumping out of a window. So really there's no suicides here.

These people were either gonna die by fire, smoke, or building collapse. I believe many of them were disoriented anyway, and not thinking clearly, can you blame them? I mean they're choking on smoke with flames licking thier backside and probably a dozen or more people behind them tring to get to that window; pushing forward for just a breath of clean cool air, many of them probably fell anyway.

I really don't see how anyone can believe that these people commited suicide. I'm pretty sure all of them wanted to live.

It's a choice between burning too death and jumping - id say that isn't suicide, it's choosing the better of two horrible deaths. If it were my family I'd rather they jumped. I bet it was actually a peaceful final 10 seconds.

RIP

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Did you ever think that they weren't committing suicide? It was either certain death or a one in a trillion chance of jumping and some how surviving...


When in a hopeless situation, people search for hope in even the most minute chances....

I agree maybe they were hoping for a miracle. We hear stories of people making it sometimes in parachute mishaps. I think they certainly were not sucidal, as in they decided they wanted to die. I think, really they didn't have the ability in the circumstances to fully cognitively assess what they were doing.

I think some honestly hoped for a miracle.

This was a tragedy, no matter who you believe perpetrated it. Those people faced a horrible, horrible decision that none of us can ever (hopefully) know or understand. I believe that there's an element of morbid curiosity going here, and I will openly admit that I harbored some of that at first. But upon watching this video here again today, it is visceral and gut-wrenching. I honestly believe that the reason that this stuff should not be widely viewed in the media is to spare the feelings of their survivng relatives. The footage should be accessable and available in the event that one should choose to want to see it to better witness the reality of that part of this terrible incident. I have no use for material like the notorious "Faces Of Death"-type stuff. If you're entertained by watching other people suffer and/or die, you should go f*****g check yourself.

First off, the people who jumped were trapped with all escape routes blocked by fire. I'm sure they looked for a way out.
Second, it's the natural instinct of all animals from insects to humans to flee from being burned alive...even if it means falling to your death.
Third, I can accept almost any theory about 9/11, but anyone who thinks the people jumping was somehow faked or makes fun of them really needs their head examined! I'd rather not post what should be done to you!
My Uncle is a Fire Captain who was there and explained to me how when the bodies hit the ground, they literally disintegrated in a ball of red mist! To this day he is still trying to cope with these memories and shame on any of you who try to say this was faked!
It's one thing to be a conspiracy theorist...but some here are just lacking any kind of common sense!

If those people were going to die anyway, I would hardly call it suicide. They were just choosing what they thought was the better way to die. Slow and painful by smoke or fire, or quick by jumping. I don't think God would judge anyone for that.

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by hardee2k11
All the jumpers are betraying the word of God. That is the definition of suicide, a sin. To take ones own life. Sorry that is wrong.

Saying that they are sinners is knowingly hurting their friends and family, knowingly hurting someone is a sin....see you in hell.

mwarrr ha ha haaar

what god?...oh i know!...the god who must have been on vacation when the death camp auschwitz was operating in high gear,burning and gassing men women and children...how could i have ever forgotten about that god?...if there is a god he/she is an evil alien...or...just a "catch all term" to explain the unexplainable...