The 9/11 'jumpers

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by blocula
lots of teenage girls threw themselves to their deaths during the triangle shirt waist factory fire in new york city in 1911 < "notice the 911 number",it is the 3rd worst tragedy in nyc history,who remembers them??? en.wikipedia.org... nobody, thats who...

edit on 11-9-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)

You make it sound like your comparing the two..and we should all remember this tragedy in 1911?

A fire in a factory over 100 years ago is a little different than two airplanes driving themselves into two huge towers,causing the death of 3000.

In 3001..if the world lasts that long..how many will talk or remember 911..? It will be in the history books..but that is about it.

how can i not compare them,they have their similarities,look at the date 1911 < weird or what!?!?, they both involved fire,suicide jumpers,both were in new york city and this and 911 both happened because people are evil and greedy. i dont care if it happened 10,000 yeras ago it still happened and these girls were killed because the greedy owners of the building locked the exits so no one would leave during work and THESE WOMEN ARE FORGOTTEN...and so will we some day....how dare i try to bring the memories of these 146 dead,mostly teenage girls back to our consciousness! whats wrong with me? i don't know what i was thinking?!...people in the usa like their short term memories,thats what gets them out of bed in the morning...

reply to post by Eirian


They were not jumping to Die.

They were jumping to live another 10 seconds.

There is a place in my soul that understands exactly why they did what they did and my throat swells in that understanding.

Godspeed.

I can't believe they still show crap like this on television, it isn't to "help us remember", that's BS. We all remember, we don't have to see people, actual people not TV actors, dieing. They do it for shock value IMO.
And if I did want to "remember" and see the people jumping to their deaths, a quick internet search would reveal tons of videos and photos of this...even going to far as to show the people splatting on the ground and pictures of splattered human remains.
This made me think, when they finish that new WTC tower, who in their right mind would want to work on a high floor? I bet all those high-level rich execs are going to be BEGGING for office space on the lower floors...I would.

When you fall or jump from such a height, you go into shock before you land, or so they say. I'd like to hear from a survivor of a sky diving accident who's parachute never deployed, free fell from the plane to the ground, and miraculously landed in the perfect spot to live through it, albeit injured. I'd like to ask them if they blacked out somewhere along the fall to the ground, or if they were conscious through the entire fall and landing. That would pretty much give us the answer.

Also, carbon monoxide poisoning, or smoke inhalation, is only moderately painful on the lungs until the carbon monoxide gets moving through your bloodstream, at which point it has a drowsy, 'fade out of consciousness' effect and you stop breathing and die relatively peacefully and quickly, without being conscious to experience it.

Now death by fire is extremely painful up the point that the body goes into shock, at which point the person burning has no idea that they are on fire, or even alive.

To sum up, I'll add my personal experience with shock-like states. I suffer from occasional tonic-clonic, grand mal seizures, the kind where your breath is forced out of you in a loud yelp as you fall dead-weight from a standing position to the ground. At this point, my body shakes violently, foam forms at the corners of the mouth, the eyes roll back in the head, and my teeth bite down so hard that I've broken all my bottom molars. This lasts from 3 to 10 minutes, then it takes another 10 to 15 minutes to fully regain consciousness. However, the seizure victim may be partially conscious after the violent shaking ceases, but will spout utter nonsense and do weird things. I tried to "go to my room" by walking into the hallway closet, and have no recollection of it.

Here's the kicker and the point im getting to. Once the seizure begins, its like a black out on your consciousness. You are the equivalent of asleep without dreaming. Just nothingness, no senses, no thoughts, no feeling that you even exist. Just plain nothingness. Once consciousness is regained, there is NO memory whatsoever of having the seizure, falling to the ground upon the start of the seizure, any of the stupid stuff you said/did as you began you regain consciousness, or that anything even happened. The only way I knew anything even happened was that I was surrounded by concerned family members who told me. I disbelieved at first, honestly. I honestly thought it never happened. Then the pain kicked in on my back, as i had a foot-long rugburn from shaking violently on the carpet, looked akin to a scourge mark. And my right hear was deeply echoing, as if clogged with water, and I was concerned I had damaged my eardrum. It went away after two hours, apparently I fell on my right side and in doing so forced pressurized air into my ear cavity, kind if like someone palm striking you in the ear. This has happened to me twice, and started this year.

FYI, I did not go to the ER because the previous time I had a seizure I did go to the ER, that time I had bruised some ribs from my fall and it hurt to even breathe, yet the ER doctor was an arse and said I fainted, that I didnt have a seizure. This was said despite the fact that my Mother, a Registered Nurse of 28 years, was in the ER room with me and had witnessed the entire seizure. He refused to even look at my back much less x-ray it, and put me through some radiation machine to check my brain for damage. I was sent away with no medications whatsoever. I have no insurance, and that one visit cost $2,000. So now I can't even seek medical care in such an emergency, precisely why I didn't go the second time.

As to the 'nothingness', I don't believe this is the 'death state'. I feel that since I never died but my brain overfired temporarily killing my consciousness, it only makes sense that there'd be 'nothingness' during the seizure, as opposed to having some near death experience or hallucination. This is because the heart never stopped, the blood never stopped, the brain never died, thus the 'spirit' remained within the body, as it was known to the spirit that I was not dying or dead. Upon true death, I anticipate a different experience than 'nothingness'.

doesn't matter if they were pushed or jumped. They did what they felt right and we are nobody to judge them. Those who are calling them cowards, try pouring down a few gallons of petrol on you and set yourself on fire. Lets see what you do to survive then. I think they were brave enough to deicde their own death and at least try to survive.

and if somebody doesn't accept them just coz god says they are sinners, then fcuk that god.

heres a link with people that have survived high falls > en.wikipedia.org... and some more amazing high fall survivors > www.popularmechanics.com...

reply to post by Helmkat


Oh hell yes. It might 'psuedo' go against my theology, but if death was certain, it would be nice to experience free-flight for a few seconds. But knowing me, had I been there, I'd probably get myself killed trying to escape, I've been known to disregard personal injury when survival mode kicks in. Running through fire, jumping down flights of steps only to break bones. Probably would've broke my neck trying to get out of there.

It is said that some did not jump, but were pushed, because of hundreds of people in one room and everyone was trying to get near the only open window for fresh air. Remembering those who fell from the towers haunts me more than anything. It was a quick death, and a horrible situation for those who had family members stuck above the impact zone. There was a report from a survivor, as she passed a room on one of the higher floors, it was filled with people in wheelchairs who had absolutely no way down. We could never image the shear horror they must have gone through until the collapse.

If i was there in one of those buildings on that day, i would have tried to save as many people as humanly possible. I would not have thought twice about my own life, as long as i helped others get to safety.

We may also remember the children in the plane that hit the pentagon, who were on a field trip with members from national geographic. It was the first time the got on an airplane. I hope they did not suffer and passed on immediately on impact. There are hundreds of stories that you do not hear about, the ones that make it so personal, it makes you sick just to think about the pain, fear and immense horror they endured right before their death.

Rest in Peace, innocent souls, may the thousands of dead terrorists killed to this day in your name suffered just as you did, if not more. The hand that raises against the united states shall be swiftly cut down, and we cut down plenty of those brain-washed murdering psychopaths.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded

out of everything that i have seen from that day, watching it live, watching those people fallin from the buildings, the towers collapsing and the things i have seen and read since - all these things have never touched me the way that call did, i cant even put into words what that man went through or those others that were trapped. and i cannot imagine the horror felt by that operator who took that call.

i dont care what stance people take on this event, be you a truther, a debunker, debater, an in the middle kinda person, i dont care - show a shred of decency and respect for those that perished, for the family's who's loved ones WILL NEVER be coming home. show a shred of respect and decency for the brave who fought for hours,days,weeks to find someone, anyone in that wreckage - the fire services, police departments, ambulance men etc who lost their colleagues & friends. Be human for once in your lives and show respect and morn nations that lost people. this wasn't just an american thing, this hit many nations. Show some heart - it doesnt matter who done it and why they done it, it doesnt matter who knew about it, before during and after. Hundreds died horrible deaths that day and imo you would have to be a sick sad s.o.b not to have felt somthing................anything.

those people who jumped/were blwon out/ whatever did not CHOOSE to be in that situation, they were scared, confused, blinded by smoke and heat......some made the choice to end it quickly, some held on to a shred of hope that they would survive, some....never knew what hit them. the most poinent thing to remember is that not 1 of those people deserve to be shunned, they deserve respect.....remorse......... and i pray to god that not 1 single one of you on ATS ever have to go through that or even be forced into making those kinds of choices.

It's the one thing that has always troubled me about religion, well, christian religion. How do we KNOW that the words in the bible were inspired by a loving god rather than a malevolent entity pretending to be God ?

If i were to believe in a god then she would understand my state of mind. She would not want me to burn in agony to prove my loyalty.

Bible ? Maybe the ultimate lie by a very conniving being.

Maximum respect for the jumpers (thats a happy face cos they did the very best they could)

All the jumpers are betraying the word of God. That is the definition of suicide, a sin. To take ones own life. Sorry that is wrong.

reply to post by Eirian


I tell you what, If I had been there I'd have jumped too. Fudge all that inhaling deathly chemical smoke and or being buried under rubble slowly dying!!!! I also would be fine if a family member jumped, I wouldn't shun them, I would feel sad for them but happy too because they probably didn't suffer like the others who got buried under rubble for weeks or died of smoke inhalation (which is not a quick death). I would accept them as my family just like I'd expect them to have done if it was the other way around! So sad.

Originally posted by wigit


That wasn't suicide, their feet were on fire, they couldn't breathe, some of them couldn't see they were treading fresh air when they tried to find a comfortable place to wait.

The Daily Mail is an evil rag. I read it every day.

Let them show us these religious people who are ashamed of their dead relative because they suicided themselves on 9/11. Rubbish story.

Most people might deny that's their son or daughter falling because they can't bear to see it.

I completely agree.

Family and friends that had others in the buildings KNOW that they are dead. Plain and simple.

yeah, a few used the situation to "drop out" also.

For those family and friends, would you REALLY want to VISUALLY identify the remains of one you cared for? Why.

Nah. I'll pass.

Most wouldnt be recognizable anyhow. Bury the remains in a common grave yard as individually as possible.

Peace to those that perished and a slow painful death to the bastards that were knowingly responsible.

reply to post by Shamatt


Agreed 110%. I mean, seriously guys. Put aside your differences and remember the people who died this day. Your petty beliefs don't matter.

Back on topic: This just broke my heart. I've seen it once before and like then, I just wanted to cry. I can't imagine the sheer horror these people witnessed. "Hmm, should I choke to death and burn or be free for a few seconds and then die?". I think the choice many of them made were the right one. I can't see why god would punish these people.

Originally posted by hardee2k11
All the jumpers are betraying the word of God. That is the definition of suicide, a sin. To take ones own life. Sorry that is wrong.

Saying that they are sinners is knowingly hurting their friends and family, knowingly hurting someone is a sin....see you in hell.

mwarrr ha ha haaar

That wasn't suicide.

That was simply choosing your form of execution...fire or fall.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Disagree for reasons already mentioned in this thread by me and others.

It was'nt suicide......it was murder committed by the terrorists who destroyed the Twin Towers.

These people knew they were going to die; their choice to live was stolen from them.

Originally posted by hardee2k11
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Disagree for reasons already mentioned in this thread by me and others.

Saying that they are sinners is knowingly hurting their friends and family, knowingly hurting someone is a sin....see you in hell.

mwarrr ha ha haaar


Have i just repeated myself ? Sorry (but at least it's not a sin)

Someone linked to that site where they claim that 9/11 and in particular the jumpers were all "fake" and edited in afterwards.

I have NEVER seen a more cynical/sick web site, and this is why i think that certain kinds of conspiracy theorists are really sick in their mind.

They had pictures of people jumping down and then very sarcastic "pseudo funny" comments on the site...one picture actually seems to show an extremely badly burned person which they compare to big foot etc....and the people applauding the poster of the site for his stupid theory how all the jumpers are just "fake" and CGI etc.

I just don't understand why people are so sick in their heads.