This is how bad it is getting.

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by Americanist
reply to post by hawkiye

 

I'm sure they did... How far would you like to go back? Perhaps the Egyptian culture? How about Sumerian? That's a good 5000-6000 years of organization and laws. You lack the forethought to debate. You ramble on as if you're going to make sense in summary. Not happening...

And here I thought you had a clue... Sigh! You lack the insight and common sense to not under estimate someone you know nothing about. Debate what? Your classlessness? Tell me what was the most sophisticated culture of its time in western Europe that had a thousand years of relative freedom and peace with none of the trappings of government? If you don't know the answer to that then you indeed rushed in like fools often do...

Such a weak barrage at critiquing, but it's understandable... You can't help yourself. Put your words to good use, and chime in with a brief history lesson for us... There's not much chance to debate at this point given you're long on questions/ short on statements.

Referring back to your original post I'd quickly add... Free Enterprise systems are an illusion as they're constantly inundated by extraction leading to monopolies (or monarchies depending on time period).

Can't answer I see. You made the claim I was lacking knowledge to debate gee why I am not surprised you are all talk and no substance... Typical of fools when they challenge someone they know nothing about...

Free enterprise is proven in history as I have stated and you are obviously unaware. It is only when government intervenes the problems you describe arise. Stop repeating marxist rhetoric and do some actual research and you might learn something. I won't be holding my breath though...

You're aware of how free enterprise systems break down outside of an RBE. I also use examples that hit a little closer to home as well as convey modern conveniences to keep the conversation relevant. We could trade bird feathers and dream weavers, but I don't imagine that would afford me the new IPhone 5 soon to be released. What you don't find me responding with is labeling coupled with the spewing of name calling. You see... You've lost your credibility already plus failed to make sense in summary. What I had predicted from the beginning.

These unemployed young British peoples should come to Australia. Although much of the rest of our economy is almost recession-like, in our mining industry you can get a job for 100,000 a year and they are literally screaming for workers.

I sorta roll my eyes everytime someone says "people need to start taking care of themselves"

While I agree with the premise, there's a problem with that: The government won't LET them.

Not sure how it is in England- and least there is healthcare there- but in the US if you get down low enough, it's pretty much just criminal to not have any money in your pocket.

I'm not talking about big business with big brother coming down...I'm talking your average poor person that wants to start a business, sell something, feed himself off his or her own land....

Where I live- and it is rural man, you can't kill your own chicken in your own yard, or sell eggs, or even have a YARDSALE without a permit. You can't put 3 feet on your front porch without a 500.00 permit, how the heck do you think you are supposed to go ask your BROKE neighbor if he needs any work done? lol

Originally posted by hawkiye
....Truly free markets do not need government because people are free to vote with their feet and wallets to patronize a business or not.

yes, in the eternal hunting grounds we're all just funny refugees who have voted with their feet and wallets.. no, seriously, i am beginning to become every more glaringly aware of the reasons why the 'white man' to be ore precise, the Anglos, went to great lengths to exterminate the native population, because they lived off the land and could in both theory and practice walk away.

this walk-out issue is the reason why gov't defends, no, let's be honest here, enforces property claims. it doesn't matter how and if you use it, if you've ever been there or have any other connection to what you own, because if you have the legalese down, the gov't and today, if need be the UN will clear it for you. this extends beyond land it even contains 'waste' food which stores often render inedible on purpose but if locks and detergents fail, there's always the gov't the enterprising mind can fall back on: www.abovetopsecret.com... of course 'we' waste so much food, aren't we all evil, i think 'we' should all do at least 10 hours of community labor a week to compensate....


this concept, whether you admit it or not, makes the state or gov't party to any contract in existence, no it will make it the dominant implicit signatory. can you guess what will happen next? my hint: it ain't utopia, most certainly not pure and untarnished capitalism in its essence, but one world dictatorship.

guess i won't be able to just walk away, because the 'stairway to heaven' is just lyrics, isn't it?! so how will i get to vote? with lead and RDX? or rather with my life? that's the end game you radical right people have all longed for for so long, point fingers on someone to kill, for instant satisfaction, guess you must be running short on natives, what a pity.

We're all talking about free enterprise in a system where governments compete with each other in terms of cost and efficiency. We are also talking about environments where large scale beats small scale, where cost of labour is an issue - you can spend your hours programming/crafting/... - but you are on borrowed time - you've got rents to pay, food to eat etc... etc...

We're talking about systems where much of the people in the same country's jobs are being outsourced for fractions of the cost.

How can people compete with that? Free competition? If you are already a shoe in - you are way ahead - and if you then outsource - miles ahead.

I don't expect governments to change this by spending our hard earned money for us (governments rack up debts by spending and "we" the taxpayer for whom these people work are going to have to pay off the debt at some point in time).

Governments have sold our business to other countries. Add to that a chapter 11 bankruptcy suit - if a foreign company alleges that the local govt did something to quash their competitiveness - and that is lock stock and two smoking barrels.

Monopoly games, which is what we are playing - Essentially you start out with a fixed pile of money to spread profits inequitably across the population. Some people accumulate - and the money, once post-tax accumulated is outside of taxes. If you start printing money - everyone gets lesser value for the money now printed (and the govt is borrowing the money that is privately printed and owned).

If the companies find that there is little to gain by investing, they pull their investments out. (shortage of reasonable value money in exchange for the investments).

You are now a part of the globalized economy and are forced to compete with the global workforce.

Those who are farmers on the other hand - that is a nice thing to be. If you can't work for money - everyone should be able to work for food. At least if everyone who wants to live is able to farm for themselves without paying taxes and without paying mortgages on land - or at least work for a farmer who can afford these things (if they hire workers for no money but keep). Well at least you'll have a means to survive.

I reason that governments will be seriously opposed to these types of people - as opposed to those who lie down on wall street in protest.