Communism, Socialism, and Marxism should be declared Treason:

Originally posted by Gannicus
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

I see no evidence that either of those systems works. I'd fight to the death to remove them from my society. You are not nearly as wise as you think you are.

Originally posted by Gannicus
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

I see no evidence that either of those systems works. I'd fight to the death to remove them from my society. You are not nearly as wise as you think you are.

Is this the part were I get scared?

Explain to me why you are so vehemently against socialism? Yet you'll happily live in a corrupt, 'democratic' dystopia, were it's illegal to feed homeless, starving people, you still execute prisoners, you jail people for excessively long times for smoking pot, your cops are allowed to shoot your pets and your health care system is laughable.

Originally posted by Gannicus
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

I see no evidence that either of those systems works. I'd fight to the death to remove them from my society. You are not nearly as wise as you think you are.

Well you better get cracking then, remove it this socialist act where politicans, congress, miltary, police, teachers, argicultural industries, energy companies, transportation (road, air, rail, sea) etc etc are all benefiting from it INSIDE the USA

Originally posted by Gannicus
I'd fight to the death to remove them from my society.

Ironic. Do you know how many parts of the Constitution that violates?

reply to post by Gakus

People have done a great deal of evil in this country for the sake of capitalism as well. No one should be declared a treason for their views on an economic system, that's ignorance.

WHAT CAPITALISM???

We haven't had "Capitalism" in this country since the Rothschilds sent their puppets over here long before the Federal Reserve Act was passed.

The Rothschilds funded the robber barons. I can not find the link, but JP Morgan's(??) showed his fortune was not owned by him but by the Rothschilds, the Morgans(???) only owned 17% of their corporation. Cecil Rhodes, one of the richest men in the world, was also funded by the Rothschilds. His will left the Rothschilds in control of his fortune.

The Fed was not the first US Central Bank but the third!

In 1791, former Morris aide and chief advocate for Northern mercantile interests, Alexander Hamilton, the Secretary of the Treasury, struck a deal with Southern lawmakers to ensure the continuation of Morris's Bank project; in exchange for support by the South for a national bank, Hamilton agreed to ensure sufficient support to have the national or federal capital moved from its temporary Northern location, New York, to a Southern location on the Potomac. As a result, the First Bank of the United States (1791–1811) was chartered by Congress within the year and signed by George Washington soon after. The First Bank of the United States was modeled after the Bank of England....it was partly owned by foreigners, who shared in its profits. Several founding fathers bitterly opposed the Bank. Thomas Jefferson saw it as an engine for speculation, financial manipulation, and corruption..... SOURCE

Capitalism is taking your wealth (labor and resources) and reinvesting it to create more wealth. The only ones who do that are small businesses. (Banks do not make loans to most small businesses.)

With Fractional Reserve Banking, "Wealth" in the form of inflation, is stolen from everyone and used to fund the corporations. However the real owners of the wealth that is invested never see a dime of the profits only devaluation of their savings as it is stolen and used to fund the large corporations.

"Capitalism is EVIL" is a banker diversionary tactic to keep people from see that they are stealing them blind. It is so easy to make "Capitalism" the Scapegoat.

Without Fractional Reserve Banking and Corporate/Government collusion to pass anti-small business legislation, Large Corporations just could not compete. Several layers of management, the Peter Principle, managers with different agendas, reams of paperwork and tons of meetings all make large business inefficient and therefore not competitive.

How important are small businesses to the U.S. economy?

Small firms:

* Have generated 64 percent of net new jobs over the past 15 years.

* Create more than half of the nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).

* Hire 40 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer programmers).

* produced 30.2 percent of the known export value in FY 2007.
* Produce 13 times more patents per employee than large patenting firms; these patents are twice as likely as large firm patents to be among the one percent most cited.
www.sba.gov...

You want to fix the problems???

Get rid of Fractional Reserve Banking that causes inflation and "Bubbles" Get rid of the idiotic regulations that hamper would be entrepreneurship. Do we really need the GOVERNMENT to teach and certify and LICENSE women to braid hair???? Do we need some petty hitler to jerk people around for over a year when they try to comply with all the nit picking laws???

...Today, the Institute for Justice released a series of studies documenting government-imposed barriers to entrepreneurship in eight cities....
Time and again, these reports document how local bureaucrats believe they should dictate every aspect of a person's small business. They want to choose who can go into which business, where, what the business should look like, and what signs will be put in the windows. And if that means that businesses fail, or never open, or can operate only illegally, or waste all their money trying to get permits so they have nothing left for actual operations, that's just too bad.

•In Chicago, Esmeralda Rodriguez tried to open a children's play center, paying rent month after month while she waited in vain for the government permits she needed to open her business. After a full year of bureaucratic red tape, she finally exhausted her life savings and closed down for good.....

When governments actually get rid of barriers to entrepreneurship, new businesses open almost immediately. Indeed, removing even a single law can unleash entrepreneurial energy and create hundreds of jobs. Mississippi finally got rid of its requirement that African hair braiders get government-issued cosmetology licenses to practice or teach. The result? A single entrepreneur — Melony Armstrong — trained dozens of women to braid hair and open their own businesses..... www.usatoday.com...

However if you are a Social Progressive you believe that you have the RIGHT to tell everyone else what to eat and how to breathe.

And the bankers and Big Corporations just LOVE YOU

Communism/socialism is a viable type of govt.?

One that punishes individual know-how and rewards the lazy and weak?

No thanks.

We tried that in the 40s and 50s. It was called McCarthyism. And even after it had ostensibly passed, we saw its effects as late as the 60s and 70s. Its effects saw CIA and other officially sanctioned infiltration of various grassroots organizations, and even domestic surveillance of private citizens exercising their first amendment rights. (Something repeated following 9/11 for different reasons.)

When and if there is proof of treasonous or otherwise illegal activities, then by all means, legal action should be taken by appropriate authorities in my opinion. But to declare holding or articulating ANY political ideology in and of itself as treasonous is a slippery slope we do not need to set foot on in my opinion.

To generally legally declare as treasonous a political ideology - without regard for implementation, organization, intent, or the actual presence of lack of genuinely illegal activity - is, to quote the opening post, in my opinion "contrary to the basic intent of personal freedoms, liberties and sovereignty of the individual, as established by the Constitution."

Originally posted by nightstalker46
Considering that all three philosophies, as forms of governance, are contrary to the basic intent of personal freedoms, liberties and sovereignty of the individual, as established by the Constitution: Why do we allow anyone, who professes or proselytizes those belief's, to become involved in government at any level. And why should those who openly advocate the overthrow of those Constitutional principals, not be charged and prosecuted as traitors. What greater threat to liberty than that from within. This should be interesting

Humans have been communists for more than 198,000 years. It has for many tribes, Many good people lived because of the system that worked. It only stopped working when 1 person felt he did more than someone else and deserved to make another serve him/her. That started somehwere around Mesopotamia/Sumeria, i.e. I lock up the food and make people work for it, I get more power, and I can control people.
COmmunism is often twisted because of dictatorship memories from China/Russia/Cuba. But Communism is actually a nice way for everyone in a society to be taken care of. "If I don't eat no one is eating". It is the selfish mind that thinks he deserves to keep anyone from eating. Ever since Sumeria/Mesopotamia the average homeless/starving population has been about 30%.....
Oh! Everyone is so thick skinned this post will just get me crucified anyhow. I think there isn't a person on this planet that is better than another, I don't give a # how much money you make. Most likely you don't deserve it. every single person on this planet has the right to have their needs met.....FOOD, WATER, SHELTER....when you don't take care of those people you are greedy, selfish...you will say things like I work hard for what I have. No most likely you sat on your ASS and rode on the back of someone that worked their ASS OFF....So get out of here with your self righteous BAG OF BULL#!!! And do something for someone else for a change.

wow nice job. gave u some stars

Originally posted by Shadowed

Originally posted by nightstalker46
Considering that all three philosophies, as forms of governance, are contrary to the basic intent of personal freedoms, liberties and sovereignty of the individual, as established by the Constitution: Why do we allow anyone, who professes or proselytizes those belief's, to become involved in government at any level. And why should those who openly advocate the overthrow of those Constitutional principals, not be charged and prosecuted as traitors. What greater threat to liberty than that from within. This should be interesting

Humans have been communists for more than 198,000 years. It has for many tribes, Many good people lived because of the system that worked. It only stopped working when 1 person felt he did more than someone else and deserved to make another serve him/her. That started somehwere around Mesopotamia/Sumeria, i.e. I lock up the food and make people work for it, I get more power, and I can control people.
COmmunism is often twisted because of dictatorship memories from China/Russia/Cuba. But Communism is actually a nice way for everyone in a society to be taken care of. "If I don't eat no one is eating". It is the selfish mind that thinks he deserves to keep anyone from eating. Ever since Sumeria/Mesopotamia the average homeless/starving population has been about 30%.....
Oh! Everyone is so thick skinned this post will just get me crucified anyhow. I think there isn't a person on this planet that is better than another, I don't give a # how much money you make. Most likely you don't deserve it. every single person on this planet has the right to have their needs met.....FOOD, WATER, SHELTER....when you don't take care of those people you are greedy, selfish...you will say things like I work hard for what I have. No most likely you sat on your ASS and rode on the back of someone that worked their ASS OFF....So get out of here with your self righteous BAG OF BULL#!!! And do something for someone else for a change.

Dead on my man, but how do you establish this again without whoever is responsible for the system, such as mandating who get what jobs, how many recourses each person gets, medications ect, corrupting it? its unestablishable without a dictator who is morally good. theres no way to do it. Short of giving up electricity and forming our own small tribes it cant be done. and if you go make a commune in the woods and do this, your #ed when you have a kid born with cancer or when your brother gets some expensive disease, becauser you have no money to pay for treatments.

Originally posted by Gakus
People have done a great deal of evil in this country for the sake of capitalism as well. No one should be declared a treason for their views on an economic system, that's ignorance.

Here is the conundrum in your statement:
Do we live in a democracy built upon a republic, or do we live in a democracy built upon capitalism. Even though we have a capitalistic economic system, the republic in which our society stands uses democracy. Capitalism is just a term we use to describe our economic system.

Our argument lies with democracy versus socialism.

Socialism and communism are a contradiction to democracy.

Originally posted by illuminatislave

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
Another ignorant american.

We have socialism in Europe/Canada..and its doing okay (specially in the Scandinavian nations)

Its sad that the american public perceives socialism/communism in a negative way.

Not all of us do. We just have people who lack education here on world issues.

And others of us see the BANKSTERS hiding behind the socialism/communism dogma.

Socialism/communism doesn't work. It has never worked because people are selfish and lazy (Survival traits of all animals) It has been tried and tried again. The Plymouth colony of 1620's is a typical FAILED experiment. The official story is nothing like what really happened. It is a fairy tale, a whitewashed and sanitized collection of half-truths which divert attention away from Thanksgiving's real meaning.

HOWEVER socialism/communism is a really great brainwashing tool the Elite can use to convince the people to accept a return to feudalism with us as serfs and them as masters. Equal poverty for ALL, except for the Masters.


The basic difference in philosophies is whether the individual has the RIGHTS vs the "Collective"

If only individuals have rights, not the collective then RIGHTS are intrinsic to each individual, not granted by the state. The corollary is the state CAN NOT do anything beyond what individual citizens also have the right to do.

The other philosophy is:
The RIGHTS of the "Collective" can trounce on the rights of the individual aka "the greater good for the greater number" The largest "Collective" is the State therefore "the greater good" is what is best not for individuals but for the STATE.

This is what we have seen in the USA since FDR threatened to pack the Supreme Court to get his New Deal past the Constitution. Note his Son-in-law states the Bankers were sitting at FDR's Elbow the entire time. Doll portrays FDR as a "quarterback" with little actual power. The "coaching staff" consisted "advisers" like Louis Howe, Bernard Baruch and Harry Hopkins who represented the international banking cartel. FDR: My Exploited Father-in-Law


Collectivists seek political office because it gives them power over others. Bankers and Corporate CEOs like "collectivism" because it gives them power over people. Individualists shun public office because they have no desire to control others. They consider it completely contrary to their beliefs.

"Capitalism" per say never even enters the equation except that capitalism is based on the individual's right to own of private property.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Socialism and Communism are both antithetical to freedom. Both involve using force to take the fruits of your labor to give to others without compensation. That is also known as slavery.

apparently you have not researched the great depression during the 30's...what is most important is what led up to it, what caused it. america is one of the most capitalistic countries in history. what has set us apart is that we were able to combine the best of capitalism and socialism. too much of one, breaks under its own weight, as has been documented throughout economic world history.
representative government was, and is, set up to protect regular people from exploitation by the wealthy and powerful, not the other way around. again, this has been proved from the hard lessons of the past.

reply to post by nightstalker46


Because America should be insular, rigid, close minded and isolationist.

I get it.

Your America is not mine OP. But in mine you are welcome to believe as you wish.

I have to say, i am learning a handful from these posts in this thread

but one thing im curious about: if you support socialism, why not support Obama too? he did have a highly socialist agenda

Originally posted by nightstalker46
Considering that all three philosophies, as forms of governance, are contrary to the basic intent of personal freedoms, liberties and sovereignty of the individual, as established by the Constitution: Why do we allow anyone, who professes or proselytizes those belief's, to become involved in government at any level. And why should those who openly advocate the overthrow of those Constitutional principals, not be charged and prosecuted as traitors. What greater threat to liberty than that from within. This should be interesting

Yeah, Sen. McCarthy had the same idea in the fifties.
It did not work. Those darned commies came out of the woodwork agin!

Thewhole idea sounds good to me...then we can arrest BHO and friends...now

Originally posted by Shadowed

Originally posted by nightstalker46
Considering that all three philosophies, as forms of governance, are contrary to the basic intent of personal freedoms, liberties and sovereignty of the individual, as established by the Constitution: Why do we allow anyone, who professes or proselytizes those belief's, to become involved in government at any level. And why should those who openly advocate the overthrow of those Constitutional principals, not be charged and prosecuted as traitors. What greater threat to liberty than that from within. This should be interesting

Humans have been communists for more than 198,000 years. It has for many tribes, Many good people lived because of the system that worked. It only stopped working when 1 person felt he did more than someone else and deserved to make another serve him/her. That started somehwere around Mesopotamia/Sumeria, i.e. I lock up the food and make people work for it, I get more power, and I can control people.
COmmunism is often twisted because of dictatorship memories from China/Russia/Cuba. But Communism is actually a nice way for everyone in a society to be taken care of. "If I don't eat no one is eating". It is the selfish mind that thinks he deserves to keep anyone from eating. Ever since Sumeria/Mesopotamia the average homeless/starving population has been about 30%.....
Oh! Everyone is so thick skinned this post will just get me crucified anyhow. I think there isn't a person on this planet that is better than another, I don't give a # how much money you make. Most likely you don't deserve it. every single person on this planet has the right to have their needs met.....FOOD, WATER, SHELTER....when you don't take care of those people you are greedy, selfish...you will say things like I work hard for what I have. No most likely you sat on your ASS and rode on the back of someone that worked their ASS OFF....So get out of here with your self righteous BAG OF BULL#!!! And do something for someone else for a change.

How come everyone who brings up this point FORGETS the Rites of Passage where the young had to PROVE they are worthy of being a part of the communities??? No group of people are going to continue to support an able bodied free loader without kicking him out of the community. The idea of "Barter" - true "capitalism" has been around since the first hunter swapped a rabbit for a handful of arrow heads or sex.

The "Tribes" were extended families groups. People are still willing to help family members or members of the local community who fall on hard times. What people are not willing to do is support worthless freeloaders who think "Socialism/Communism" means they get a free lunch.

In a small group an individual's contribution to the group as a whole can be seen by all. In a country the size of the USA there is no way of judging a person's contribution and therefore his "right" to the wealth of the collective group. Therefore the use of Hunter/gatherer "communism" as a defense of the use of nation wide communism is an EPIC FAIL!

You guys are losing site of what is really wrong here. Its not the idea of capitalism or socialism for that matter. Its humanism thats the problem. If capitalism was left the way it was intended then it would be fine. Same thing in even socialism. The problem is that its human nature to be greedy. I don't care who you are, everyone suffers from greed. Some people are able to keep it in check while others let their lives be comsumed by it. It doesn't matter what form of government you have, there will always be corruption. People can't point the finger at America and say capitalism failed without pointing at themselves and saying socialism has failed as well. Look at the riots in Europe. Its not capitalism or socialism in its purest form but what humans has twisted it to be.

Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail.
Benito Mussolini

I take Bennie's word for it.

Originally posted by Libertynotbs
Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail.
Benito Mussolini

I take Bennie's word for it.

Fascist says "what"? In other words, how would he know?