Communism, Socialism, and Marxism should be declared Treason:

reply to post by WXBackdoor


So is Grease, Italy and Ireland. All bankrupt. Things seem to be going south in UK as well, as evidenced by the civil unrest.
As governments discover they can't sustain their socialist programs, those who became dependent upon gov. get very angry. Those who actually work are taxed at 60-70-% of income. They too are getting very angry. Government then has only one way to respond, and that is with violence against it's own citizens. Socialism eventually reverts to Fascism.
Sorry mate. No thanks.

I agree that Communism, Socialism, and Marxism should be declared Treason as well. They all go against what America stands for And her constitution.
None of these idelogolies would have been tolerated 40 years ago.

reply to post by Gakus


I'm not talking about an economic system. I'm talking about the basic concept of governance. While the two are certainly intertwined, there is a distinction of greater importance.

You do know that ideology opens up a big can of worms that would have unrealized consequenses?

America is part socialism.....

the police are a socialist program

the fire department is a socialist program

interstates and highways are a socialist program

almost all enviromental protection programs are socialist

You see the slippery slope you have created? Now we all have to be tried for treason by your standards!

Damn socialist commies!

The problems in Europe aren't because of "socialist" policies, they are down to the idiotic Friedmanite policies of reducing the tax take from the rich and big business. That's why there is such a crisis, less money coming in from the big boys.

Originally posted by Unvarnished
reply to post by nightstalker46

 

If I work 6 days a week 50-70 hours a week to get the things I want, why should I be forced to donate part of my very life to support those who WILL NOT do the same?

I doubt many would. Unless they did it for some kind of ego boost. Eventually the government has everyone breaking big rocks with a little hammer. Not everyone just the overwhelming majority anyway. Maybe they give a task like building something together, some enormous structure. Some people want to be broke and do nothing but they take them away in a van and never heard from again. Then there is the monochrome jumpsuits everyone has to wear because the fashion designers work for the same wage as the rock breakers. So they are all equal. I would go for a black jumpsuit and work in the cafeteria. Once the line thins out i could read my government pamphlets. One day i may be a supervisor and be able to crack the whip.

reply to post by intrepid


They may be philosophically viable, but are not economically sustainable. The major flaw is human nature itself. Some will be greedy, and many become slothful. The current economic conditions in parts of Europe is the evidence.
The utopian scenario, so hopefully espoused by socialism, completely ignores the differences in each individual. What made America great was the idea that creativity, innovation, and hard work would be rewarded. When we gave in to the welfare state, our decline began. The idea that everyone is equal is nonsense. If that were true, we could all play pro football, or we all could be Bill Gates. The substitution of Government as provider and the relinquishment of personal responsibility (for almost everything) is a recipe for disaster.

Our system provides for equal treatment under the law, and equal opportunity to advance one's station in life, but one's success or failure is solely up to the individual. Why change that?

I know a guy who grew up as a share cropper on a cotton farm in Mississippi. His family was literally "dirt poor". He had to quit school in 8th grade to help buy food. At 19, he hitch-hiked to Memphis and took low paying manual labor jobs for 3 yrs. Later he ended up very well off, owning his own business. I asked him how he was able to do it. His reply;
Son, poverty is one hell of a motivator! Point being, gov. does not have to hold everyone's hand. Take way motivation and you take away one's self respect. A condition we see increasing proportionally to the level of gov,"help".

reply to post by nightstalker46


So...since those of us in America enjoy a constitutional republic dominated by capitalism, why are we in such an economic bind? We have de-regulated most aspects of the money and financing system and money has been easy to obtain for business' and the like.

So why are we in the same boat as Europe?

In my opinion, Europe has tried to model their economics after America and their boat has sunk just as fast as ours. If they were truly a "socialist" region than they would actually probably be better off.

Your story was nice but what it shows is that everyone can succeed in America.....but not everyone will! In fact, there is no guarantee that you will have food, water or shelter unless you can pay money to those who have been successfull. How do the poor make their way from rags to riches when the rags take all the money they do have?

I think it would be in your best interest to do some studying on economics. From my point of view you are regurgitating a particular mantra rooted in a certain political party that benefits from brainwashed mouthpieces who have the silly notion that trickle-down economics actually works. Ever heard of the horse and sparrow?

reply to post by SprocketUK


Sorry, but I disagree. The problem was irresponsible spending, not taxation. If your budget is 90% of your GDP, no amount of taxation will make you solvent. If the governments "were" able to tax the billionaires (before) they committed their treasury to massive government spending, things might be different. But the BIG boys you refer to, ARE the government. Check out the Corporation that owns YOU. The relationship to socialized governments with THE Corp. is an irony in itself. Don't fall for the class warfare dribble. Educate yourself. Only chance we've got.

www.freemanITOBA.COM

www.teamlaw.org/historicaloutline

Originally posted by nightstalker46
But the BIG boys you refer to, ARE the government.

Right and that is why it doesn't matter what they call themselves it's always the same, even capitalism. Because things are never implemented as they should be.

this video always comes in handy


the stockholm syndrome part 1

part 2

real treason is a system that allows a political party to hold the economy hostrage so they can win the white house using an obscure and mostly irrelvant beaurocratic mechanism that has nothing to do with the budget while protecting the interests of the top 2% of the population

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
Another ignorant american.

We have socialism in Europe/Canada..and its doing okay (specially in the Scandinavian nations)

Its sad that the american public perceives socialism/communism in a negative way.

not all of us do. We just have people who lack education here on world issues.

The most fundamental belief in a free society is that every person has the right to make their own choices. This doesn't exclude political, religious or otherwise of the views or ideals a person may hold. That being the case the merits of socialism vs the merits of a true free market society are a continuous and age old debate. However, socialism as we know it in practice and capitalism as it's practiced are both exceedingly poor examples of the systems that they could be. Corruption has won the day and both systems prove to be hurting the majority of the people in contemporary society.

With that being said, to declare any opinion, ideal, philosophy, religious belief and so on as treasonous goes against the very definition of a freedom. It's also going to increase the polarity in the stupid bi partisan system we cling to so blindly. There is so much common ground between people on both sides of the floor and most are frustrated about the same things so why not stop calling each other by political titles and start embracing on the truths that we can all agree on. It's as simple as doing what is right. However simple, it seems to be the biggest stumbling block that political idealists have.

reply to post by nightstalker46


There has been a systematic destruction of most social programs in Europe, and its true that the costs have spiralled...When you look into it a little more closely you can see why.
Since the mid 80s governments have been closing the state run programs and replacing them with privately funded ones, every arm of the NHS is now beholden in some form, to private enterprise, which means that the costs to the state rise (to increase profitability) while the conditions for the workers and the service to the users get worse.
That's just one example, but it goes right across the board, until we have something like 75p in every pound spent ending up in the hands of private companies who inevitably dodge their taxes.

There is a sneaky, hidden Friedmanite cabal trying to stop all government social care so that the very richest can pay even less tax, and if you can't see it, then I'm either utterly useless at explaining it or you choose not to see it.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Socialism and Communism are both antithetical to freedom. Both involve using force to take the fruits of your labor to give to others without compensation. That is also known as slavery.

I thought actual slavery or wage slavery was capitalism.
Stealing the labor of a person and giving it to the capitalist.

Originally posted by RRokkyy

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Socialism and Communism are both antithetical to freedom. Both involve using force to take the fruits of your labor to give to others without compensation. That is also known as slavery.

I thought actual slavery or wage slavery was capitalism.
Stealing the labor of a person and giving it to the capitalist.

Unlike in socialism, no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to work for the evil capitalist. Don't want to work? Don't. Just don't ask me to support you.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Unlike in socialism, no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to work for the evil capitalist. Don't want to work? Don't. Just don't ask me to support you.

Necessity forces you.

They know this that is why they create artificial scarcity.

Originally posted by RRokkyy

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Socialism and Communism are both antithetical to freedom. Both involve using force to take the fruits of your labor to give to others without compensation. That is also known as slavery.

I thought actual slavery or wage slavery was capitalism.
Stealing the labor of a person and giving it to the capitalist.

The main difference is that you are not forced to work for the "capitalist". The issue i see is that in these systems we do see people forced to work...one way or another. Personally i have never been a part of the corporate world and i am low income because i am at the poverty level. From what i know of human nature is that once they give you something they expect something in return. To triple my income by putting on a suit and going to work every day...I would really make a go of it but i have no idea what its like to sit in an office and i would probably have panic attacks.

The inherent problem is within our own human nature...

A completely capitalist society would eventually end up with an ultra rich 1% controlling class and an ultra poor 99%.

Likewise, a completely socialist society would create the same class system, but it would be governments instead of businesses manipulating the flow of money and resources.

Either way - the few control the many, and greed still wins.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by nightstalker46

 

So...since those of us in America enjoy a constitutional republic dominated by capitalism, why are we in such an economic bind? We have de-regulated most aspects of the money and financing system and money has been easy to obtain for business' and the like.

[ We are not a constitutional republic as defined by our original constitution, and if you read my posts you will see the reference to the "original" constitution. America is a corporation called Corp. US. Our presidents are, and have been for a while, the CEO's and our Senate is the acting Board of Directors of Corp US. U.S. citizens have been declared enemies of the corp.and bonded as collateral for the debts created by the corp.]

www,teamlaw.org
www.freemanITOBA.COM]

So why are we in the same boat as Europe?

The same groups we define as the global elite, created this corporate structure in Europe a well. The EU experiment, was a means of consolidating the global monopolies under WTO which basically rigs the system. The World Bank and IMF encouraged massive loans to governments, who by virtue of the corporate relationship, obligated it's citizens as collateral, thru taxation. Problem is, by embracing "global trade" regulated by WTO, it was insured that EU and USA could not compete with cheap third world labor. Thus we all lost jobs, went into greater personal and municipal debt, and could not sustain the level of consumer spending necessary to keep the system working. The scheme of creating fiat money thru the Fed., thus inflating the dollar, propped up the system for a while, and now the money cycle is about to come full circle. The chickens are about to come home to roost.
Because Europe was more inclined towards socialism, the plan was easier to pull off there. We are next.

In my opinion, Europe has tried to model their economics after America and their boat has sunk just as fast as ours. If they were truly a "socialist" region than they would actually probably be better off.

[Actually the opposite is occurring. Our handlers ( corp US.) have been trying to move us toward the European model for a while now. Notice the many attempts to tie our laws to UN led international law. It should be noted that any "treaty" supersedes the national sovereignty of the nation involved.]
www.mulitnationalmonitor.org.

Your story was nice but what it shows is that everyone can succeed in America.....but not everyone will! In fact, there is no guarantee that you will have food, water or shelter unless you can pay money to those who have been successfull. How do the poor make their way from rags to riches when the rags take all the money they do have?

I think it would be in your best interest to do some studying on economics. From my point of view you are regurgitating a particular mantra rooted in a certain political party that benefits from brainwashed mouthpieces who have the silly
notion that trickle-down economics actually works. Ever heard of the horse and sparrow? [/quote

[not even close]]