America didn't do much in World War II (in Europe)

Originally posted by Old77
Europe only Exists because of America. You think Stalin would have stopped at Berlin if the USA was not there to say uhm I think we'll take this half so there?

I bet next your going to say America is a murderer country because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I bet you going to try and convince me that Japan was not themselves months away from detonating a bomb and would have had we not them.

I think its sad how many people the public education system has failed and more so the garbage people believe that there hippie # professors are telling them in school. The damage is clearly showing.

Yet you posted complete garbage about how you think Stalin would have conquered Europe if not for hero America conquering Western Germany from the Nazis

Fact is that the US supported the Nazis because it produced profit. They were playing the Nazis in order to fund their own military buildup to fight the Japanese for Pacific supremacy. The whole point of WWII was to establish a new era of empires that could grasp the world; the Nazis wanted it, the Soviets wanted it, the Japanese wanted it, and the US certainly wanted it. Britain's imperial reign was already over and they fought for survival, which is why we Canadians jumped in and gave those Nazis a good ass beating.

By the time the US had already joined in, it was at the climax. I would even say that the US was watching which side was winning or losing so it could jump in and crush one side in order to take over its geopolitical reigns.

Let me ask you, what do you think the US would have done if the Nazis had smashed the politburo and used Soviet resources to bomb Britain into submission? Do you think the US would have fought the Nazis at this point? I think the US would have acquired all of the brain trust from the fallen USSR and UK and established fortress America while doing nothing, IF NOT even allying directly with Nazi Germany.

If you are above "garbage public education" then you might actually realize how well the Von Hayek's Nazi economy worked in terms with neo-liberal economic developed in 1970s America. Whether you like it or not, the world is driven by economic growth and a polarized world with competition between American free trade and the Nazi fascist industrial complex would produce massive booms in technology and industrial power.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by ChrisF231

 

You demand respect from Japanese tourists in Hawaii after dropping the A-Bomb over Japan? Have you gone completely mad?

Oh... You misunderstand.

Dropping TWO A-bombs on Japan was MERCY. If the US had been forced to invade, there would have been no mercy, and there would now be no Japan. And the world would not shed a tear for the loss of them.

Because Japan was shown mercy, and the US then offered them a hand up, the Japanese, taking that hand, have managed to crawl out of their own slime and become human beings. Allowing that culture to survive and helping them to rebuild their culture is a risk still worth doing.

The US shows mercy to the merciless and are hated for it. That makes it all the more awe inspiring.

Russians suffering in desperation, but surviving and finding the inner will to do what it took to repulse an enemy.
The British valour and courage.
The Australians, Canadians, Chinese... and then the many who were not equipped for war of that type who none the less fought-- it is all heroism.

And when it was over (and the US did end it, but the Russians would have) there were some who offered dignity to the defeated. Russia was not among those offering dignity-- and the world, for the next four decades, pivoted on that point. The former enemies of the US grew, while Russia's Soviet Union formed and then quickly disintegrated. Mercy, you see, comes from strength.

And, by the way, the hate of Americans from the Arab nations is a Nazi hate. That is where it began. And as I am fond of asking, rhetorically, of the foolish, "How is that working for you?"

Post Script: I know it is no fun to confront reality when it opposes your ideology, but I can't help but point it out. You see, I share with you my secret: I read books. Take that as the insult that I intend to you and your ilk.

Tell that to My grandfather.


Officer in the US Army. Made his way all over Europe as one of the people that LED America (AND THE REST OF THE ALLIES.....) to victory.

He may be 92 now but I promise you he will set you straight...

And then he will punish you several hours of manual labor for saying something so stupid.

All of the morons come out of the woodwork in WW2 discussions. I am so sick of hearing "if [X country] didn't do [A], then [F] would have happened". That may be true, but what if [Y country] didn't do [B]?

An Allied victory in World War 2. There are some clues in there somewhere.

Almost as bad, is all of this "we did [A]" and "we did [B]" bollocks; what did you do exactly? I wish that people wouldn't try to take credit for other peoples' sacrifices.

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by anumohi
we should have stayed out of the war and let the germans kick the crap out of england and russia and only focused on the bomb, then if germany had started any crap with us we would have erased them from the history books.

if we had not got into the war the russians and the brits would be speaking german right now

You do remember there was this little Pearl Harbor thing, yes? Japan and Germany were officially allies at that point.

Did you just sleep through history class?

Our government let japan attack us, even provoked them attacking us, so we would start the second half of WW2 this was totally achieved by the rich bastards who wanted in for the money, thus creating the military industrial complex, or maybe you slept through history and you're still asleep

Originally posted by Soshh

Almost as bad, is all of this "we did [A]" and "we did [B]" bollocks; what did you do exactly? I wish that people wouldn't try to take credit for other peoples' sacrifices.

When people say we, it is because it is much easier than listing every US soldier who fought in the war, so we generalize and refer to the entire US....A.K.A we.

Originally posted by Soshh
All of the morons come out of the woodwork in WW2 discussions. I am so sick of hearing "if [X country] didn't do [A], then [F] would have happened". That may be true, but what if [Y country] didn't do [B]?

An Allied victory in World War 2. There are some clues in there somewhere.

Almost as bad, is all of this "we did [A]" and "we did [B]" bollocks; what did you do exactly? I wish that people wouldn't try to take credit for other peoples' sacrifices.

Hey, guess what? If you're examples of 'moronic' discussion were not present here, then there would be no discussion.

WWII is history. It is both impossible and naive to think we have a clear understanding of the reality of the war. The perception changes between nationalities and cultures. The historical facts differ between individuals.

There are really only three ways to discuss world war II:
1) to portray the "official" history of it as described by the victorious allies;
2) to discuss what we individually know, made up of what we have learned within our own cultural limits;
3) to be critical of everything that we think we know of it so that we can come up with a much more rational explanation of the actual history through linguistic constructivism (thesis + antithesis = synthesis).

I've not yet seen any mention of the Flying Tigers, possibly I missed it. They were helping China defend herself shortly after Pearl Harbor. It was a massive effort by all allied countries to contain Germany,Italy and Japan. No one country could do it alone as others have stated, but to say America did almost nothing is just silly.



www.flyingtigersavg.com...

Missed the op's edit. Now were just talking about Europe. O.K. then

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by Soshh
Almost as bad, is all of this "we did [A]" and "we did [B]" bollocks; what did you do exactly? I wish that people wouldn't try to take credit for other peoples' sacrifices.

When people say we, it is because it is much easier than listing every US soldier who fought in the war, so we generalize and refer to the entire US....A.K.A we.

My point was that some write "we" instead of "US" (or wherever they're from) because they are keen on associating themselves with the statement. I don't expect people to list every individual of a particular nationality that fought in WW2 and I'm sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by Soshh
All of the morons come out of the woodwork in WW2 discussions. I am so sick of hearing "if [X country] didn't do [A], then [F] would have happened". That may be true, but what if [Y country] didn't do [B]?

An Allied victory in World War 2. There are some clues in there somewhere.

Almost as bad, is all of this "we did [A]" and "we did [B]" bollocks; what did you do exactly? I wish that people wouldn't try to take credit for other peoples' sacrifices.

Hey, guess what? If you're examples of 'moronic' discussion were not present here, then there would be no discussion.

What a load of arse. It is possible to discuss the war without presenting ridiculous arguments along the lines of "my country won the war because...".

Originally posted by michael1983l
America didn't win the war single handed but all the allies contributed to the success. USSR lost 1.3 million souls defending the eastern front, The UK entered the war very early on and stood up to a threat of which it was out numbered, out equiped and was behind in technology. The USA had a great navy fleet and supplied loans to the UK enabling it to fight the war before the USA joined. When the USA joined it threw everything it had at it and was eventually the catylist to tip the balance of power, however the USA lost the least men out of all of the allies. It could be said that the USA brought the greatest resourses, the ussr the greatest army and the UK the greatest courage. It may also be of note that the UK cracked the Enigma code at Bletchly that swung the war in the allies favour and invented the radar that beat the luftwaffe over the iles of Britian.

Just accept that we all needed each other FFS [/quote
mate, (buddy americanism) friend, you just nailed it. Totally, without russia and american( and whoever else i havnt mentioned) wed have been up #e creak without the necessary rowing apparantice. who did what and at what date, so what? we allies lost a lot of our men, every ally is a hero, and im so so so proud of our vets, and find it quite sad that on rememberence sunday when we have the military march by to the royal family each year the the group of ww1 wheel chair ridden guys gets smaller and smaller, i reckon its about six now, this is what angers me about the behaviour of the youth of today, we had real men who were possibly just 18 fighting for us, hell my gran lost about 9 brothers in burma and such other places . Im proud and prou
d of all of our allies, and yanks(just joking) thanks for the nylons hersheys and unwanted pregnancies lol.
I wish the abhorrant youth of today could just see for one minute what this world would be like if that austrian nutter had won the war,

reply to post by misterbananas


Nice thread to get everybody worked up. All the allies contributed greatly to the defeat of the Nazi's. The US, UK and Australia were the ones getting the job done in the Pacific, with the US providing the bulk of the force. The biggest thing the US did was be the Arsenal of Democracy (actually any anti- Axis country). Without all of the weapons, ships and planes produced by the U.S. both the UK and Russia would have had a much harder time withstanding the hits the Germans put on them at the start of the war and Australia would have had a lot harder fight at their doorstep. No one should diminish the role of any country in WWII. They all played a vital part, without any of them, the War goes in a much different direction.

As people are discussing the role of the Soviet Union during World War II, the following questions must be raised as to the actual numbers of dead as a result of Stalin’s decisions during that time fame.

Stalin was an ally of Hitler, allying the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic and Germany at the start of World War II, to include the invasion and partitioning of Poland. It is only until after that Germany attacked the USSR, that the 2 became enemies. According to all tactical and battle information, there was clearly a lack of battle strategy that the USSR had blundered, all under the command of Stalin.
The USSR had the greater numbers on its side to meet and possibly defeat Germany in a land battle, but its troops were clearly outgunned, as they did not have the modern equipment.

According to most information, the main strategy that the USSR was to delay and retreat back slowly, to hinder and slow the advance of the German troops to rely off of the winter to counter attack. It was in June of 1941 that Hitler order the first attack against Russia, staring a major offensive, sending 3 million soldiers, catching the USSR off guard at that time frame. In an attempt to gather support and equipment, the USSR did purchase equipment under the Lend Lease act from the USA. The counter offensive on the part of the USSR did not start until the winter. Most historians agree, in not only the USSR, but also in general that the military losses on the part of the USSR was the fault of Stalin, who like Hitler, took more of a direct control over his military forces, ignoring the advice of his generals.

Let's assume that you are correct and 'America' (I presume you mean the U.S.A.?) didn't do much in WWII. It sure looks like they did enough to enable the tide of change in the Allies favour.

Now, note that I am not a fanboi of the American (U.S.A.) regime, but I am sure that they enabled an earlier end of the war than if they weren't involved.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


uh i did use the search function i couldn't find anything. i think i did state that btw

To all posts refraining to Respect, History, Education, Ignorance.

I actually DO have Respect for 'American' Veterans and i'm sure any one of them would agree that they did not do most of World War 2 in Europe, what I am saying is not to how hard they fought, Its what percentage of it actually contributed to a full halt of World War 2, and I do not believe that the Americans contributed much to World War 2 now what I am about to type is NOT talking about War Veterans but actually the Government of the USA.
During the time that the war started the government was sitting there saying "ah screw it it's not affecting us so why should we be at war" but then suddenly Japan bombed pearl harbor and they declared war on Japan then Germany declared war on the USA. at that point they had been involved in the war, I am not disrespecting the work done by War Veterans because I do know how hard they fought. but there were alot of battles in Japan and not so many in Europe, Cause if I was there I would bomb Germany before Japan, I could make a whole new thread about how much they actually did in Japan which I am now thinking that I should do, along with a thread about Vietnam, which was a Civil War but they thought that communism there would spread through the world and to the USA (by the way vietnam was a brutal war) back on topic, Ignorance - Lack of knowledge or information, well the fact is that I actually happen to have the knowledge and information but the way that I write is so f##cked up (had to do that so you could know what word it was) that everything that I think when I type comes out in weird ways and I act like i'm thinking the thoughts to myself but in the process of doing that I don't think of the details in-between because I write it how I think it but when I think while writing well there it goes again it came out messed up, I meant think as in just putting the bare details because I already know the bare details and I'm pretty lazy when I'm not in college so I don't think of rewriting it or writing it using proper techniques.


I stand my postion saying the USA did not do much in Europe in the years from 1941 - 1945 and that the only people who think that USA is the best country is people from there and a small percentage of everyone else. no offence, I actually like going to the USA because they have better drinks and stores and alot of landmarks but politically Mister George that the USA elected twice in a row screwed it up.



OH and i hate people who say "we did [blank]" well guess what, NO you and whatever other buffoons you are talking about didn't do that, your veterans did that and you should thank them.

Originally posted by Frira
Absolutely! the Americans should never have bothered... well...

... there were those North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France liberation things, but other than that the US didn't do anything. Oh, there was also that Japan thing, yeah they did that, too, but other than that, nothing. Oh, and maybe we should mention China, just to be fair? - actually china was an allie..... so that half should be removed

The only people on that Continent who put up any fight and who didn't get the tails kicked were the Brits. And I do believe that the Brits would tell you that [part of] Russia would be a part of Germany today had the other allies not all created the western front, which is, after all, what collapsed the German resources-- along with the bombings.

Then there is also the matter of conquest. Let' see...

Who helped the defeated nations to recover whether liberated by the western allies or conquered by them verses who just kept those defeated nations as the "spoils of war" for forty years? Yes, the Americans had to airdrop food to the civilians because that "other" country was willing to starve them. - yea cause they are 2nd world countries not 1st world countries

But other than those things, the Americans have no bragging rights concerning WWII. -

This thread reminds me of the report I saw on the 50th anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima. They were at the Hiroshima memorial, and going through some sort of "Book of Remembrance" for people to write in. Many anti-US sentiments were inscribed by the Japanese public. Several American ex-patriots living there had written in the book, in Japanese, "Remember Pearl Harbor!" When asked, virtually no Japanese person had ever heard of Pearl Harbor. - that has absolutely no correlation to my post at all.

And they say the victors get to write history. - okay, a SWC quote, he was a warmonger....

Oh, that's Right, real history has only just begun to reach the former Soviet Union. How is that working out for you?

i edited it to make more sense

reply to post by misterbananas


We fought Japan and then we went to north africa and fought by the time we got to germany we said screw it well let Russia deal with it

By the way Russia got their asses handed to them, why would USA risk the lives of their soldiers when someone else is going to do it

Now, americans always talk about fighting nazis in World War 2 but if you try to find them actually doing so on a search engine you will not find barely anything about the USA in Germany inbetween 1941-1945 except Omaha and Utah squadrons on the beach in Normandy being the only times i could find records of the USA fighting Germany...

reply to post by misterbananas


As you will notice from my last post we started fighting the Nazi's in North Africa we pushed them all the way back up into Europe, seriously what are you talking about

Go on youtube and watch World War 2 in HD to get educated

reply to post by misterbananas


Part of the reason so many russians died was because they were ill-equipped. If you are serious about your post do some research...there not only is alot of things America did but there were alot of things other little countries did that you probably didn't even about. WWII is amazing to read about....nobody held anything back. Read "Body of Secrets" if you get a chance. It is about the NSA but it talks about all kinds of crazy unclassified stuff from WWII.