America didn't do much in World War II (in Europe)

The alliance, helped solidify and advance the unity of global powers, and pushed us closer to global governance,
enemy created=alliance created, FUNDING SHIFTED, enemy defeated, agenda advanced.
it's the long picture that reveals what the short steps are there for.
All of it run and created by THOSE who controlled the money.
Now who really WON ww2?

I completely agree. Because sending over men and materials definitely qualifies as doing NOTHING.

reply to post by centurion1211

Oh look, another American getting defensive because he can’t comprehend fact over fiction.
What a surprise..

/end sarcasm.

What exactly has your post got ANYTHING to do with WWII? Oh right, nothing.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Big talk from someone living in what is now basically just another pissant little european country.

You don’t need to tell me this, I live here and see it firsthand. Unfortunately, all our MP's are absolutely terrified about capping immigration. Personally, I wouldn’t let a single person in unless they actually have a profession we need.

/end off-topic rant.


/start on-topic rant.

USA did not join allies until 1941. You guys were too busy with Japan at the time causing you to be one of the last to contribute. New Zealand on the other hand were very quick to retaliate, beating the USA to declare war on Germany by over a year.

Do your own research if you want proof. Wiki and multiple books & sites are your friend.

Originally posted by TrixXxtaR

Do your own research if you want proof. Wiki and multiple books & sites are your friend.

edit on 17/8/11 by TrixXxtaR because: (no reason given)

I'm totally a student of history - especially military history.

That's why I asked YOU to provide the proof for your statements - because I already know there isn't any.

reply to post by centurion1211

Then I suggest you study more.

Participants in World War II

Oh and I suppose asking you to read all of that would be to much to ask..

I Hate these threads.....


They are stupid and reveal just how ignorant many on both sides of the argument truly are. It was a WORLD-WAR which was an endeavor conducted by multiple Nations on both sides. For those who play down the US's participation open a damn book. For those who blindly regurgitate the stale old view that "The US saved your butts" I suggest the same thing...!

I noticed how the OP specified Europe.

Typical Euro-centric Trash!

While the Soviets took hell when Germany invaded them on the Eastern Front or Russia's Western front which was their main battlefield. [Western Russia and Eastern Europe] The US on the other hand not only fought in Europe but also North Africa, Italy and throughout the entire Pacific theater etc etc. So did many of the US's Western Allies.

"EUROPE" Was not the only fight in WORLD WAR II.

It was a combined effort by many nations on multiple fronts all throughout the world to bring down a real threat to global peace. Now if people want to downplay the US's role in Europe and do some Half-Ass numbers game, fine so be it. It does not belittle the efforts done by millions of men from many countries who put their lives on the line so people like the OP can freely spew their garbage.

Must be nice hey OP?

To type safely in a secure country spewing your rhetoric while sitting in judgment of men who are [or were rather] ten times the person you are or will ever be eh? US servicemen who joined the fight in whatever year or in whatever theater of operations didn't know if they would live or die.

YET they went.

That alone proves they were worthy of recognition, admiration and the honor of keeping their contribution in a proper historical context. Not to mention those who gave the most! History repeats itself. Those who are ignorant of and fail to learn from it are doomed to repeat it.

Those who are historical revisionist are among the worst of the ignorant.

Semper Fi

Originally posted by TrixXxtaR
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Then I suggest you study more.

Participants in World War II

Oh and I suppose asking you to read all of that would be to much to ask..

It's wiki, but I read it anyway. Nothing new for me. *yawn*

But since you like wiki so much, try this article on the "Arsenal of Democracy" - aka the U.S. Much of it is a period discussion about what would happen if the U.S. were to let the UK fall to the nazis.

The U.S. didn't allow that to happen, which allows you to still be free and able to spout your revisionist history.

reply to post by centurion1211

The first paragraph sums it all up really..

Roosevelt promised to help the United Kingdom fight Nazi Germany by giving them military supplies while the United States stayed out of the actual fighting.

I realise you still contributed to the war but still not as much as other European countries. This is all I have said from the beginning, yet you all still insist otherwise.



Edit:

This also suggests that the U.S only got involved when they realised they would be screwed over if we did fall. True allies, eh!.

1. Look, Hitler was Time's man of the year--good bad or ugly. He was given deference as a world leader until he went too far--and too far was different for each country. As the US was not in the habit of dictating which bsinesses sold what goods to which country, I fully expect Nazi Germany to have recieved goods dirctly from US citizens. Plus, most of the man's attrocities were not really known at the begining of the war. Hindsight is far more clear than foresight.

2. Great Brittain did not oppose everything that Hitler did by bringing the fight to him as soon as he started taking over other countries. They took their time getting in there, too. The reason they were involved way before us is because the war was on their doorstep. As long as Mexico was still iffy about which way they went, there was danger on US soil fo that war comming home...and Mexico was a turbulant country at the time.

Plus, this would not have been the first world war that was seeking to involve Mexico:

WWI Archaeologist Spy against Germany
Mexico's fight in WWII explained some.

For the first time, the US and Mexico worked together against a common enemy and immediately saw the vast benefits of cooperation.
(..)
Even before their official declaration of war, Mexico closed its ports to German ships and submarines: had they not, the effect on US shipping might have been disastrous.

Note that the US had a vaild reason to be paranoid over Mexico, since we were not friendly until post US invovlement in WWII.

3. Since wars are fought by individuals when there are major ideologies backing them, communists and fashists in the United States did not want to go to war with Germany, at first. Overall, the younger hotheads who disliked what was going on in Europe left long before our military did, and joined in Britain. Unity only happened after Pearl Harbor.

4. The question is not: "Did the USA do enough? " but rather "How would the war have ended without US help?" While Hitler's decision to invade Russia was rather silly, would Great Brittian still have been standing by the time he decided to take on the Russians? "When the war finally came to the US, what did we do?" While nothing is ever 100% certain, Britain was pretty well at the end of their rope by the time the US joined.

5. It is amusing to note that there's all this rabid arguments over US involvement, no one here is complaining about NEUTRAL SWITERLAND. If the US had continued doing as the Swiss had, which is what we were trying to do as a Nation (we did not like other countries blocking our exports, so germany was starting to force our hand--yes, our president wanted to join, bur Congress and the American people as a whole were unwilling), we wouldn't have joined the war. Would we have been blamed if we stayed the heck out of it? Not as vitrollically as we are attacked for not joining soon enough. Humanity is that contradictory.

Originally posted by TrixXxtaR
reply to post by centurion1211

 

The first paragraph sums it all up really..

Roosevelt promised to help the United Kingdom fight Nazi Germany by giving them military supplies while the United States stayed out of the actual fighting.

I realise you still contributed to the war but still not as much as other European countries. This is all I have said from the beginning, yet you all still insist otherwise.

Edit:

This also suggests that the U.S only got involved when they realised they would be screwed over if we did fall. True allies, eh!.

edit on 17/8/11 by TrixXxtaR because: (no reason given)

Well, don't forget who started World War II (and World War I for that matter) - Europeans.

So, if Europeans start the wars, it seems quite right that they also bear the brunt of results of those wars even if the U.S. had to come to the rescue twice in the 20th century.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I have to admit I usually disagree with many of your views on things....but not this time.

Amen to that.

Millions of people were killed in World War II: military, civilians, east, west, whatever.

When people cook up these crazy arguments over who "fought better" or whatever, they insult all of those killed.

Shame on the OP for posting such a stupid topic.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Frira

 

You go tell that to the Japanese people!

You have no understanding of their culture and their ancient history; just because their culture does'nt agree with yours, it does'nt make them slime.

I left an expansive video camera on a train while getting off in Tokoyo central many years ago.....I got it back the following day in excellant order. That would'nt happen at Central Station in NYC or LA.

And by the way, a close family member of mine spent 2 years in a Japanese POW camp during WW2 so I'm aware of what the Japanese are capable of doing just as what the Americans were capable of doing in American POW camps for the Japanese military.

None of us know exactly what would had happened had the A-bomb not been dropped on Japan except the war would had lasted alot longer. Japan was used as a testing ground; the A-bomb was originally built to drop over Germany.

You obviously know little of what the Canadians, Australians and NZers did in WW2 (let alone WW1). Among some of Britain's finest airforce pilots & gunners were Kiwis whom were immediately absorbed in to the British Airforce, not just because they were among the best, but because they flew low and always got their target.

You should take a lesson in ANZAC history.

Mom? Is that you?

Goodness! Hop down off my back, you are crowding my ex-wife!

To start with, you make my point-- Japan was an enemy to humanity during the war, and have since become a good nation of good people. That is what I said. Somehow you restate my point as an argument with me. Goodness, get a grip.

You are correct, I know little of the Kiwi's, but a bit more about the Australians and Canadians. But did you think my post was intended as a complete history of World War II? You didn't mention Ethiopia, and I did mention New Zealand (I think) so what is your point? This thread is not about the part New Zealand played in the war.

I didn't start this thread, I responded to it. Go and do likewise.

What a nasty little mood you are in-- and I didn't do it. Nap-time for you.

I agree. If it wasn't for us Canadians the second world war and the first would have been won by the Germans. Simple example, Vimmy Ridge, British lost 100,000 men, French lost 100,000 men, Canadians went in with 25,000 men and we took it!!!! Americans are just WAR PROFITEERING!!!!!!!!!!!
Sincerly,
CPL Sabastian Sears (2347 Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of CANADA)

Originally posted by therealwolf90
I agree. If it wasn't for us Canadians the second world war and the first would have been won by the Germans. Simple example, Vimmy Ridge, British lost 100,000 men, French lost 100,000 men, Canadians went in with 25,000 men and we took it!!!! Americans are just WAR PROFITEERING!!!!!!!!!!!
Sincerly,
CPL Sabastian Sears (2347 Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of CANADA)

World War I you say....
Semper Fi...

2nd Division Arrives:

On June 1, the US 2nd Division, including the 4th Marine Brigade took up positions south of Belleau Wood near Lucy-le-Bocage. As the Marines dug in, a French officer suggested that they withdrawal. To this Captain Lloyd Williams of the 5th Marines famously replied, "Retreat? Hell, we just got here." Two days later elements of the German 347th Division from Army Group Crown Prince occupied the forest. With their attack at Chateau-Thierry stalling, the Germans launched a major assault on June 4. Supported by machine guns and artillery, the Marines were able to hold, effectively ending the German offensive in Aisne.
Marines Move Forward:

The following day, the commander of the French XXI Corps ordered Brigadier General James Harbord's 4th Marine Brigade to retake Belleau Wood. On the morning of June 6, the Marines advanced, capturing Hill 142 to the west of the wood. Twelve hours later, they frontally assaulted the forest itself. To do so, the Marines had to cross a wheat field under heavy German machine gun fire. With his men pinned down, Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly called "Come on ya sons-of-bitches, ya want to live forever?" and got them on the move again. When night fell, only a small section of forest had been captured.

In addition to Hill 142 and the assault on the woods, the Marines attacked into Bouresches to the east. After taking most of the village, the Marines were forced to dig in against German counterattacks. All reinforcements trying to reach Bouresches had to cross a large open area and were subjected to heavy German fire. When night fell, the Marines had suffered 1,087 casualties making it the bloodiest day in the Corps' history to date.

Originally posted by Pervius
Stalin made a Treaty with Hitler to be best buddies.

Hitler ignored the Treaty and decided it would be easy to slaughter Russians.

Be careful who you pick as friends. Always be ready for a fight.


Who killed more Russians, Stalin...or Hitler....I'd say STALIN...hands down.

It was a mutual defense pact. Stalin and Hitler were not buddies; they just wanted time to build up their forces.

I see that there's still a bunch of gung ho Yankees here. I don't think they are able to tell the difference between Germany and Japan. I think it's funny to see them claim that the US let the Soviets take Berlin because they would take heavy casualties (which is a load). I don't think they understand that if Japan didn't surrender, that the US had already begged the USSR to engage in a northern front on Japan. In fact, the possibility of the Soviets acquiring Japanese territory was probably enough to make them surrender.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I see that there's still a bunch of gung ho Yankees here.

Watch who you are insulting there. I'm a southerner, not a damned Yankee.

I don't think they are able to tell the difference between Germany and Japan.

When the two are allies who did not break their agreement with each other like Germany and Russia did, there's no need to worry about diffrentiation--although most of the "yanks" posting in here are both comparing and contrasting them. There's a big diffrence between Japan and Germany. America actually likes the majority what Japan sells to them.

I think it's funny to see them claim that the US let the Soviets take Berlin because they would take heavy casualties (which is a load). I don't think they understand that if Japan didn't surrender, that the US had already begged the USSR to engage in a northern front on Japan. In fact, the possibility of the Soviets acquiring Japanese territory was probably enough to make them surrender.

I really don't have a prefference about any of these statements. I think you ought to win wars as concisely as possible, but you should never have one sole option of doing so if you can help it. Beg Russia to join, but bomb the crap out of Japan so that Russia is not needed. Good policy all around.

WW1! America sat on their asses selling guns to each side. The machine guns the Germans were using? MADE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!! Plus America only entered (then got slotered in their fist battle) after a "note" was dropped by the Mexican ambassador from the Germans asking Mexico to attack America. WW2 the Americans only entered after they got bombed (which if you watch Unsolved History episode Pearl Harbour. Was it a surprise attack? It will prove that a radar station saw the planes comming but the CO toldthe crew it was FRIENDLY) and before that America was selling weapons and raw materials to both sides. Hell America even sold weapons to the guys their fighting now.
Sincerly,
CPL Sabastian Sears (Canadian Armed Fources)

If you look in a HISTORY TEXT BOOK MADE BY AMERICANS hill 142 was captured by THE BRITISH in 1917. It was nicknamed the pimple.
Sincerly,
CPL Sabastian Sears (Canadian Armed Fources)

Originally posted by therealwolf90
WW1! America sat on their asses selling guns to each side. The machine guns the Germans were using? MADE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!

If we had not fought in WWI, Great Britain would be speaking German to this day, and Hitler would never have come to power. We had no reason to be in WWI. Selling ammo to both sides and STAYING OUT would have been the best course. By WWII, we regretted it sincerely, and didn't want to be involved, as a nation, so it took Pearl Harbor to drag us back in. If we had known what we know now about Hitler, we, as a nation would have been involved sooner.

Plus America only entered (then got slotered in their fist battle) after a "note" was dropped by the Mexican ambassador from the Germans asking Mexico to attack America.

America only started to get alon with Mexico during WWII. No surprise there

WW2 the Americans only entered after they got bombed (which if you watch Unsolved History episode Pearl Harbour. Was it a surprise attack? It will prove that a radar station saw the planes comming but the CO toldthe crew it was FRIENDLY) and before that America was selling weapons and raw materials to both sides. Hell America even sold weapons to the guys their fighting now.
Sincerly,
CPL Sabastian Sears (Canadian Armed Fources)

There is no proof, nor does a rational person believe that the majority of the US, or even the overwhelming majority of the US military knew about Pearl Harbor before it happened. It is generally taught that Pearl Harbor was preventable. But without it, we would have still been selling to both sides, sitting on our butts until some of the atrocities Hitler was doing made it into public knowledge.

And yes, e sell weapons to everyone and their mother. What I dislike is when we sell the weapons to Al Quaeda and then won't let the average citizen have the same rights to buy those weapons. That's where it went wrong.