2/3rds of the Angels Stood by us, do you appreciate that?

I simply don't get the infatuation with angels and all other bible-ish spewings. We are all in this together folks...we are all afraid to die because we don't know what happens after and we have regrets about what we have done. If you REALLY do know what happens after then you are a liar or you have been decieved by people who rode horses or mules or camels who had no more of a clue than you do.

If this loving god (lowercase) does love you and does want you to be the best person you can be, wouldn't you think heorshe would make it so humans wouldn't comprehend/fear thier own death? Or is that not included in "free will"? How many religions do you think there would be if people were ok with death? Myguess is none. As far as I can tell, my cat does not comprehend death at all. She jumps on the roof by jumping on several thin walls and cries to get rescued at any step of the process but at no time do I see her afraid of anything other than being stuck where she is. She is just acting as a cat. That doesn't mean we as humans don't need to observe the very basic, GED rules of any religious text... such as treating others as you want to be treated and generally not being a douche or a murderer.

From what I have learned in life so far, the bible was not required for people to know not to kill one another over the years...although it has been and will continue to be responsible for just that.

You have fellow humans going through the same life that you are going through - please WAKE UP!

Originally posted by HardyWhite
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I think we should be ethical. Do good to others. At least try to!

I think that there is too much lying being done in the world.
I think there's too much injustice.

i think no matter the religion, race, creed, etc.. We as a people should be united and working together to advance ourselves intellectually AND spiritually.

My belief is in a God of all things, who gave simple messages that were misinterpreted by our physical languages.

God may be within us. But I really can't define God.. And I know of none who can.

Dear HardyWhite,

I will go off track for a moment. I cannot describe God to you, only what I know of him and it is as limited as I am of being capable to describe him. I love your beliefs, lets love one another, lets help one another, lets all understand that we are not perfect. I agree, be well.

Originally posted by AQuestion
This is really a thread just for believers, to non-believers consider it my attempt to discuss the morals of a fairy tale if you must.

In the bible it says that 1/3rd of the angels rebelled against God; but, that means that 2/3rds did not and actually care about us and are willing to have us above them, that is pretty amazing considering all the harm we do. Here are my questions, why should they believe in us becoming better and do you appreciate the fact that they trusted in us enough to stick it out and not rebel? What side would you take, or better put, would you do the same for us, do you love your brother that much that you will put up with his mistakes while he grows?

I have never understood this. GOD is all powerful. All knowing. Why allow 1/3 of your angels to rebel and cause chaos on earth influencing MANs decisions? Why not just "not create them in the first place" if you know they are going to kill and maim ...

Sigh.

Beginning page 6. Will eventually get all my answers out, but y'all are all taking off.

Boreas: Dog like angels is good to note.

SaturnFX: Laughing at Stockholm Syndrome. Most Anglo Saxons wouldn't be here without that syndrome, let alone any other nationality. Lots of love comes from that captivity. And the count is a bit skewed. When the conditions it takes for these 2 entities to exist in the first place requires that a spiritual death be more final than a physical one, counting physically dead bodies is irrelevant. The whole setup is that your spiritual death is on your head alone, and you've got only 1 out, so you take the out...even when it means your physical death.

And:

So, if 1/3rd rebelled, then clearly god -is- defeatable, and if this is possible, then he is not omnipotent, therefore not god.

Fallacy to think that eternal life is proof of omnipotence, or even remotely competent thinking. Also false to assume that the Angels were perfect-eternal. They could have no beginning, yet have an end, or have a beginning and have no end, or have neither. There has never been enough information on Angels to determine any of this--after all, the word merely means messenger. There is not even a mention of when exactly time started. Being fully eternal, with all time and place being NOW puts you outside the constraints of time by definition. There is no proof that Angels were ever fully in that state.

daskakik: Satan petitioned God for that assent, not that God merely gave him the power. Basically, God has control, but Satan has power, and will ask for anything he can get out of anyone. Also, most human teachers and parents ask questions of others when they already know the answer, and even sometimes know what the person asked is going to respond. Why can't God?

TheThirdAdam: Sociopath Repentance: It depends on a lot of things, like: Is this condition required for a vessel made for destruction? Is this a being God lets go of for repeated infidelity? (2 separate things.) Or is this an innocent who is not talked about in the scriptures, and is therefore not our concern, but Gods? (As in I don't have to have an opinion...or an answer.) Or are they by definition innocents, such as little children, since they cannot have any knowledge over good and evil? (Remember, not every Christian group out there believes in baby baptism, as they see it as redundant at that moment in time. And knowledge over Good and Evil was what was forbidden--it's still forbidden to a sociopath. Makes it all the more scary when you think that a sociopath is what is closest to Adam and Eve.)

reply to post by TheFrenchPickler


Dear TheFrenchPickler,

Just a thought, could you even make an attempt to respond to the OP or bother reading what has already been cleared out of the way on the thread?

reply to post by AgnarDaGr8


Dear AgnarDaGr8,

I have never understood this. GOD is all powerful. All knowing. Why allow 1/3 of your angels to rebel and cause chaos on earth influencing MANs decisions? Why not just "not create them in the first place" if you know they are going to kill and maim ...

Interesting question, why allow any of your angels to rebel against you; but, you did not supply any attempt at an answer, can you think of no possibilities, if not then you would be unable to understand any answers.

HardyWhite: The question of "why he would take his 'chosen people' with him and leave the rest to waste" is consistently addressed in the Bible, with point blank intent.

studylight.org...:22&t=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&sc=1&l=en

Romans 9:14-24, specifically, 20-21:

20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

Most people are aware of the consistency in scripture of the thought of free will. At the same time, there's certain people obviously not cut from the same cloth. Hitler always comes to mind. That man serves as a warning to everyone on the dangers of superiority complexes, extreme political ideologies, and the dangers of taking away people's rights for religious reasons. I wish he had not happened, but Eugenics would likely have gone mainstream 60 years ago, before we knew how inadequate our understanding still is to this day.

Scale it back: Let's talk about something we know is wrong without all the knee-jerk reactions. Alcoholism. There's nothing admirable about chronically surrendering your control to a chemical. At the same time, there are genetic markers in families for this problem. Is it truly that person's 100% fault that they cannot control themselves around alcohol? No! Is it their fault for walking into a bar when they know that they are an alcoholic? Yes, unfortunately. Has every alcoholic been setup for failure? Only if they drink. God gives you an obstacle to work on, and then He wants you to learn to master it. What is the point of a next life if we can't learn in this one? Why bring those who refuse to make any effort? Their sense of entitlement is just going to ruin the next life anyway.

On angels free will: The difference is we were given free will, Fallen Angels stole free will.

Educating one's self is the purpose and premise of humanity as far as I am concerned.

So, Bible believers, I urge you to go read this and "educate" yourselves in an alternative, although I think way more viable, version of the history of humanity and where "Christianity" and the "Bible" come from.

Happy Enlightenment!

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

T

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
HardyWhite: The question of "why he would take his 'chosen people' with him and leave the rest to waste" is consistently addressed in the Bible, with point blank intent.

Originally posted by HardyWhite
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Maybe he does get there... and thats when Christ returns.. that would explain why he would take his 'chosen people' with him and leave the rest to waste, right?

P.S. I'm not really trolling. I'm very interested in this conversation.

Reread my post.

It is a rhetorical question.

Originally posted by torqpoc
Educating one's self is the purpose and premise of humanity as far as I am concerned.

So, Bible believers, I urge you to go read this and "educate" yourselves in an alternative, although I think way more viable, version of the history of humanity and where "Christianity" and the "Bible" come from.

Happy Enlightenment!

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

T

Dear torqpoc,

So blatently attempting to hijack my thread is moral, you ignore my questions and attempt to prove there is no God, I guess you give me the freedom to hijack your threads and ignore your Ops. Be good with that as I may take you up on that.

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to post by AQuestion

 

What I would like to know is why an all knowing omnipotent god didn`t see it coming .

Riddle me that ....

edit on 10-8-2011 by UmbraSumus because: (no reason given)

God did, and he had a plan already in place. He had a plan to deal with the fallen angels, and to save us. What is amazing is that he had a plan of salvation already in place before he put everything into motion. He cared that much about us.

As far as the 2/3 angles, they choose God over Satan/Lucifer. We will all eventually have to make that decision. Who are you going to choose?

reply to post by Mystery_Lady


Dear Mystery_Lady,

There is nothing that scares me more than women and their mysteries. I will not go off point, trust me. Women, like angels, are a mystery to me, I only understand myself and that took a lot of time. God did not create us all the same and Satan attempts to fool us all into believing that we can be and that it is good that we all be the same. I differ, I appreciate me being me and I appreciate women being ladies and I appreciate God and angels being themselves, I appreciate diversity and eternal change. Be well,

As for the original questions:

Why should they believe in us becoming better and do you appreciate the fact that they trusted in us enough to stick it out and not rebel?

I'm not sure that they do. I do know that we have a crowd of whitnesses watching our every step in this race, and that angels long to look into what is ours. I think most traditons hold to the thought that some angels were disgusted at the thought of having to serve mankind--and so rebelled. As of now, I don't honestly care what the Angels are doing. I'll worry when I get a visit...and probably doubt that it actually happened. Sorry, it is hard enough dealing with 1 relationship that is not even remotely grounded in the physical world.

What side would you take, or better put, would you do the same for us, do you love your brother that much that you will put up with his mistakes while he grows?

Would I do it out of love or practicality? There's no real choice to not support humanity's true growth.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


Cear CynicalDrivel,

Would I do it out of love or practicality? There's no real choice to not support humanity's true growth.

Why could you not make your choice fairly, out of what is best?

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Dear newcovenant,
Please... tell me why you are non-responsive to the questions.

Here are my questions, why should they believe in us becoming better and do you appreciate the fact that they trusted in us enough to stick it out and not rebel? What side would you take, or better put, would you do the same for us, do you love your brother that much that you will put up with his mistakes while he grows?

From what I have heard about angels they are boring and the exciting ones are banned. "Bad Angels" are capable of free thought but put it to no good use. "Good Angels"...do what they are told. Humans however, might surprise you. I give you this to consider...Soldiers will fight and die and stand by one another because their loyalty to each other is learned and over time respect for one another is earned. Angels visit and render news and instruction because they are called upon and asked by God to do so. Sometimes a human will perform an act of such amazing grace, devotion and sacrifice to some fellow humans without ever having been ordered to do it, learned how to do it or even having been asked by God to do it. They just do it. Some had never even heard of God. They were not trained and not asked. They are exquisite creatures of focused self determination and beatific will. They die young. Above Angels... and nearer to Gods.

Dear newcovenant, I am less concerned with excitement than I am with being good to one another. I do agree that humans can surprise you and that is what I am discussing.

And it is all about you... is it not?

I know it seems rude of ME but you asked a question, in fact a few of them, and I gave you very good answers to all of them and you come back with 2 lines ( with the word "I" four times) telling me essentially you are not concerned with "excitement?" You would like to talk about "being good to one another" -you are discussing "humans can surprise".

I thought the question was....
Do you know or appreciate that 2/3 of Angels stood by us?

Which I hoped I finally summed up in the last sentence....BECAUSE

Humans are... Above Angels... and nearer to Gods.

Although I did expect a comment, it wasn't "why am I avoiding the question?"

reply to post by newcovenant


Cool, you have posted something in response. Be well. I will try and figure out your point and what you have said.

reply to post by AQuestion


It isn't about 2/3rds of the Angels standing by us. The answer is that 2/3rds of the Angels stood by God and simply obey Gods command. The Angels know God exists so they had little choice in the matter. For them, it was "obey or not" and face the consequences. 2/3rd of those Angels not only KNOW God, but have witnessed his power and his great love and compassion. I assure you they knew what those consequences would be. We however choose to follow God because unlike the Angels who were made before us cannot live in his presence in our current form. Perhaps that is why God loves us? We (who believe) have not only faith in him, but we choose to do so with faith over fact. And as we were made in Gods image, maybe it is our potential for love and compassion that will win the day for us as a species? Conjecture sure, but I hope as well.

Originally posted by MollyStewart
reply to post by AQuestion

 

It isn't about 2/3rds of the Angels standing by us. The answer is that 2/3rds of the Angels stood by God and simply obey Gods command. The Angels know God exists so they had little choice in the matter. For them, it was "obey or not" and face the consequences. 2/3rd of those Angels not only KNOW God, but have witnessed his power and his great love and compassion. I assure you they knew what those consequences would be. We however choose to follow God because unlike the Angels who were made before us cannot live in his presence in our current form. Perhaps that is why God loves us? We (who believe) have not only faith in him, but we choose to do so with faith over fact. And as we were made in Gods image, maybe it is our potential for love and compassion that will win the day for us as a species? Conjecture sure, but I hope as well.

Dear MollyStewert,

So you believe that God works by duress, by fear. Why would you worship or accept such a god as God? I would deny such a god as you describe and I am a Christian, I do not accept your god and you are not a Christian if you do not believe in true free will.

reply to post by AQuestion


Dear AQuestion,
How exactly am I hijacking your thread or ignoring your OP? Your question is: do we realise 2/3rd of the Angels stood by us.

My response is.. they didn't, it's a fabricated book you're refering to, so here's an alternative to read. (with link in the original post)

There is no God, there were Gods because people believed them to be and they were not divine beings as the book you're refering to depicts.

Is that answer more in line with the way you'd like it laid out?

As for hijacking my threads, please feel free. I do hope you bring an enlightened and educated approach to them though, rather than superstition.

Edit - The real question here though, is .. have YOU actually read the link I posted, I think not since it'd take a lot longer to read than the time you replied to my posting took. I have read all religious texts I could. That is the innate difference between blind faith and educated faith. And don't get your nose bent out of shape so quickly, it just lessens your rhetorical footing i'm afraid.

T

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Dear AQuestion,
How exactly am I hijacking your thread or ignoring your OP? Your question is: do we realise 2/3rd of the Angels stood by us.

My response is.. they didn't, it's a fabricated book you're refering to, so here's an alternative to read. (with link in the original post)

There is no God, there were Gods because people believed them to be and they were not divine beings as the book you're refering to depicts.

Is that answer more in line with the way you'd like it laid out?

As for hijacking my threads, please feel free. I do hope you bring an enlightened and educated approach to them though, rather than superstition.

T

Dear torqpoc,

Others can read your words and decide if you were responsive, I can live with them reading your words and deciding for themselves. Being as you are, I am sure that you can agree with them deciding who is deceiving. Be well.