New ATS Survey: UFOs and Extraterrestrials

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
What a sad excuse for a poll - most researchers view aliens as interdimensional and not extraterrestrial at all!

How do we define "inter-dimensional"?

This is a very complex problem.

What are "dimensions"?

Review all the definitions of the term "dimension"

I have elaborated on this various times in depth, and there are many contradictions and inconsistencies within the over-generalizations and vague terminology employed by calling it "inter-dimensional".

There could be hundreds of problems with this 'misnomer' in common lexicon, as it is a term being misapplied or applied or designated inappropriately. It's like calling a whale a fish.
It's very poor terminology.

If a dimension is locality, that means I am in a dimension. Actually 3 dimensions I can measure, length width and height. So therefore I am inter-dimensional. I translate through 3 dimensions. Many will also add that Time, would be a 4th dimension of which we can measure. I agree.

If something appears before you, and you exclaim " it is inter-dimensional" , you are not describing anything at all about locality of origination, and are in fact akin to calling it a specter. Hell call it demons or whatever, you might as well. You have given me absolutely no information in relation to locality, therefore I have learned only that you saw something, but you have no clue where it's from and it is innocuous.

What significance can I gain when someone informs me that magic is the answer? I have no reply, other than to just pull out the dictionary and begin to really try to dig into the roots of this problem.

Shall I dig up my arsenal ? There are some really good ones. It will take a few hours possibly, as it is buried deep in the ATS mountain. It's just those nagging questions that don't seem to have logical answers that don't allow for linear solutions.

But suffice to say, it is correct in English language to NOT apply the term "inter-dimensional" to any object unless you are willing to apply that same term to EVERY object that has locality.

Please don't take it personally. I mean no harm to any human being or their worth, as all humans are valued beyond any numerical limitations. I just wanna kill that word, I'm sorry I get that way sometimes.

Basically, if the "alien" came thru a "dimensional portal" , than it HAD to have come from either :
1) This Universe
or
2) Another Universe

The portal's originating location was either:
1) Earth
or
2) Not Earth

The Terminology "Extra-Terrestrial" encompasses all non-Earth lifeforms or intelligent constructs. If the portal originated from not Earth, than it is E.T.

If the portal originated from Earth, it HAS to be from our Universe. Otherwise it Has to be another Earth in Another Universe.

E.T is 100% consistent however and explains locality of origination. Not Earth.

If it is from Earth in this Universe, it is Terrestrial.

So rather than ET vs Military vs Hoax, you could better say ET vs Terrestrial non-human vs Military vs Hoax.

That could cover the whole gamut. But it doesn't really matter, most people will just throw in Terrestrial non-human UFO sources with ET anyways.

Oh and I suppose technically some people may decide to label it "God". In that technical explanation we would be suggesting the source is all localities simultaneously in all possible variations.

Also, the suggestion that it is "mental projections by humans", this would go under hoax in relation to proof of aliens, but would go under 'fact' as proof of telekinetic or other psychic capabilities.

I am sure we could chop this whole forest down by the end of the day, but cmon' really why? There's no point to it.

I kinda wanna get something to eat and go check out some new topic threads and see whats going on.
Now let us await the results to see what everyone thinks.

reply to post by muzzleflash

If a dimension is locality, that means I am in a dimension. Actually 3 dimensions I can measure, length width and height. So therefore I am inter-dimensional. I translate through 3 dimensions. Many will also add that Time, would be a 4th dimension of which we can measure. I agree.

The "constants" of Physics are changing, thus as the article in "Scientific American", June 2005 ("The Constancy of Constants") contends: "that if these constants are indeed changing, it implies that our reality is but a mere shadow of a larger reality."

(That's what the Bible has maintained all along)

Our universe is digital, not analog. There are limits in the macrocosm, the universe is finite, and there are limits in the microcosm, no particle can be smaller than 10^ -35 centimeters. If a particle becomes smaller than that is loses locality and is everywhere simultaneously. (Quantum Physics)

It's my contention that these entities are demonic, and inter-dimensional, not extraterrestrial. I'm not here to harp on the belief that these craft and creatures are demonic in nature, but to affirm that Jaques Vallee Ph.D. and Dr. J. Allen Hynek both conclude that these craft and phenomena are inter-dimensional and not extraterrestrial and I was dismayed there was no survey option available for this contention.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Than answer this question.

Where is that magical "dimension" at ?

You can't. Therefore the terminology fails.

(Also, please understand that since the constants are changing, than quantum physics is still merely our primitive understanding due to limited technological capability to investigate. This proves true every day in modern science, as new advances come, so too new discoveries.

Your absolutist statement about something which remains unknown, such as the Plank Unit, is short-sighted in my opinion. There is always more to find, and it is unlikely that there is any limitation to measurement through the micro or macrocosms.

Also it is highly unlikely that the Multiverse is finite, as per definition there cannot be a 'wall' without the exception that something remains on the other side. Therefore it must be infinite in space.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Than answer this question.

Where is that magical "dimension" at ?

You can't. Therefore the terminology fails.

Everywhere. We are the ones limited to 4 dimensional perception. The current understanding is the universe is comprised of 10 dimensions. Inter-dimensional means entities can appear in our 4 dimensions, and disappear at will. So the question IMHO is silly, we live in 10 dimensions, we can only perceive 4.

Also it is highly unlikely that the Multiverse is finite, as per definition there cannot be a 'wall' without the exception that something remains on the other side. Therefore it must be infinite in space.

What? The great discovery of the 20th century was that the universe is finite. That's not seriously questioned today.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Than answer this question.

Where is that magical "dimension" at ?

You can't. Therefore the terminology fails.

Everywhere. We are the ones limited to 4 dimensional perception. The current understanding is the universe is comprised of 10 dimensions. Inter-dimensional means entities can appear in our 4 dimensions, and disappear at will. So the question IMHO is silly, we live in 10 dimensions, we can only perceive 4.

You have no actual proof of that, and at best it is a silly theory.

By definition "everywhere" is God, because "God" is defined through qualities such as ever-presence.

So what you really mean is, God opened the portal and his angels appeared unto us?

reply to post by Springer


I chose this too........

Dr Greer and merry book band.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

What? The great discovery of the 20th century was that the universe is finite. That's not seriously questioned today.

edit on 9-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Impossible to prove, you are just passing off theories as facts.

You can't prove or disprove something like that. All we can do is speculate.

reply to post by muzzleflash


unless you seriously concider at least 2 options...
1 ) "interdimensional" in relation to time travel :

you stated that you agree that time is indeed a 4th dimension, so what of the possiblity that some of these "craft" are not "dimensional" windows between a different time either past or present?

or 2) It has been "theorised" through string and M theory that there exists at least 11 different "dimesions.

Being that we cannot currently prove or disprove these theories, is it not at least plausable that within one of these "dimensions" there could exist a lifeform or concience with capabilities we do not yet comprehend?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Now it's time to shift gears away from current events

Indeed, good timing with this. There is a lot to be distracted with and being distracted, one may not see something occurring right under ones nose.

radar 07/22/11

reply to post by muzzleflash

 

You have no actual proof of that, and at best it is a silly theory.

By definition "everywhere" is God, because "God" is defined through qualities such as ever-presence.

So what you really mean is, God opened the portal and his angels appeared unto us?

As I said earlier, I'm not here to make this about fallen angels/God, but to offer dismay that there was no option to affirm that these entities/craft do exist but are inter-dimensional and not extraterrestrial. Two of the most world-renowned UFO researchers make this same conclusion.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

What? The great discovery of the 20th century was that the universe is finite. That's not seriously questioned today.

edit on 9-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Impossible to prove, you are just passing off theories as facts.

You can't prove or disprove something like that. All we can do is speculate.

Not so fast, the current understanding of Physics is that this is the reality we live in. You can disagree that's fine, but that's NOT a vaild a counter-argument unless you offer an alternate explanation with your scientific methodology.

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
This already starts off incorrectly. The creator of the survey assumes that these things are extraterrestrial in nature. There are so many other explanations that are much more viable.

Hi TheOneElectric, just curious, but are you willing to tell me which many other explanations do you think are much more viable than the extraterrestrial one?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

What? The great discovery of the 20th century was that the universe is finite. That's not seriously questioned today.

edit on 9-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Impossible to prove, you are just passing off theories as facts.

You can't prove or disprove something like that. All we can do is speculate.

Not so fast, the current understanding of Physics is that this is the reality we live in. You can disagree that's fine, but that's NOT a vaild a counter-argument unless you offer an alternate explanation with your scientific methodology.

I did offer a valid explanation, that there must be something on the other side of every wall. Thus infinite.

Also, I was not saying that the "God" explanation was illogical, it isn't actually, it could happen.

However I was calling M-Theory silly, which is just today's fad in astrophysics.

I am just dismayed that you cannot look ahead 250,000 years into the future and realize that humans will have to have figured out a better theory than that by then. Hell even in the next 50 years...

Like you said before, the constants keep changing. I am just using this pattern to get ahead of the curve.

Also; to the poster who brought up time-traveler, than terrestrial or ET will also suffice for those but with the additional adjective "time-traveler" to the nouns "terrestrial" or "extra-terrestrial". Thus indicating locality of origination sufficiently.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Ive looked into this alot and the Theory is flawed and has no real evidence to back it up.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I hear what you're saying, but I for one do not wish to project "demonic" upon any sentient extraterrestrial lifeform. If anything, it's probably the other way around, and we, here on Earth, are the source of demonic energies, inluding judgement employing black and white absolutes ie: thinking and acting from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

And if certain races from other planets have mastered higher laws of physics, then surely they also possess higher levels of understanding of the very nature of reality and existence, and here I'm thinking along the lines of a morality of quantum gravity, that kind of thing.

Also, if they've made it here, why has Earth not been invaded? Therefore, if anything, perhaps they are like cosmic farmers or farm-hands overseeing the crop of Civilization and human evolution..

Projecting the devil is not very helpful, or healthy imo and experience.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I'm not trying to disrespect you in any way, but you're offering conjectures, that's it. "Could be", "must be" is language of conjecture.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Jaques Vallee Ph.D. and Dr. J. Allen Hynek both conclude that these craft and phenomena are inter-dimensional and not extraterrestrial and I was dismayed there was no survey option available for this contention.

I concur.
My answers were based on my agreement with Vallee's conclusions.
The sole use of the word "extra-terrestrial" in the poll renders most of my answers moot.

And Skeptic Overlord, I'm still awaiting the day you change that terrible avatar.

This will help get the Galactic Federation of Light's Advertising Department on board when/if they show up.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I hear what you're saying, but I for one do not wish to project "demonic" upon any sentient extraterrestrial lifeform.

I don;t think they are extraterrestrial for one thing, neither do the top researchers in the field. Jacques Vallee Ph.D. and Dr. J. Allen Hynek also contend that these entities and phenomena appear inter-dimensional in nature and not extraterrestrial. So I'm certainly not offering an objection from left field. They consider them "demonic" in nature because the abduction experiences are horrifying and traumatic, as well as they are very deceptive in their nature. Biblically speaking that tells us what "team" they are on.

There is also hush-hushed evidence that during abduction experiences people have been able to immediately stop the abduction by invoking the name of Jesus which again goes to give credibility that if these are inter-dimensional angelic appearances they are of the fallen angel variety.

UFO Researcher Discovers That the Name of Jesus Stops Alien Abductions

If anything, it's probably the other way around, and we, here on Earth, are the source of demonic energies, inluding judgement employing black and white absolutes ie: thinking and acting from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Perhaps demonic energies yes, but not fallen angel ones. Angels are portrayed as inter-dimensional entities, not demons per se. But again, i didn't get into this thread to discuss the angel theory for UFOs other than to offer dismay that there was no selection for people to choose that denied these UFOs and Aliens are extraterrestrial in nature. A great segment of the people who believe in these entities and craft are on the side of them being inter-dimensional.

Projecting the devil is not very helpful, or healthy imo and experience.

It's a possible explanation based on the received evidence. Its a valid conjecture on the part of many. Of course, no one knows for sure.