Riots in Tottenham, London

So apparently the best answer to police violence (just or unjust) is MORE violence? My oh my, humanity has learned so much in the last century. It's alright folks, we'll most likely all die by the hands of another human being, and this planet left a barren wasteland. Why not start riots today and have a head start?

reply to post by NadaCambia


I did. Also a white person making an observation of a majoritively black crowd of rioters is not allowed to make such an observation, since that is also racist.

Despite what the tv screens show us - of black rioters attacking police, buildings, thieving, robbing, burning, mugging - we should not be allowed to make such observations, because it is politically incorrect.

So: If you're white and you don't like these events, shut up, keep quiet - you are NOT allowed to comment. No matter what your political affiliations, whether left, right or centre - you WILL be called a racist, you will be accused of being a BNP supporter and you have no right to comment on such issues.

(Am I doing it right yet?)

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

That's surprising. I'm originally from Lancashire and I know of a few people who voted BNP in the last general election because they were so tired of the 'Big 3' parties. A couple are friends of mine who are absolutely not racist at all. I also know of an asian immigrant family who, somewhat bizarrely, voted BNP for the same reason.

They didn't vote for UKIP because that wouldn't make the same statement as voting for the BNP.

A vote can be used for more than supporting your own party.

But even if what you say is true, while it doesn't make them racists I'd say it makes them idiots.

I don't understand why voting UKIP wouldn't make the same statement as the BNP. If they're against voting for the Big 3 parties the statement is the same, surely? The only difference in statement I can find is one says "I don't like immigration and I'm patriotic" and the other says "I don't like immigration and I'm patriotic and I'm racist"

If you say your friends aren't racist then they aren't racist but I'm confused as to why they'd vote BNP over UKIP given their intentions were just to give a message to the government that they're tired of the current establishment?

Blacks riot in London but liberal press won't mention it

cofcc.org...

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

I did. Also a white person making an observation of a majoritively black crowd of rioters is not allowed to make such an observation, since that is also racist.

Despite what the tv screens show us - of black rioters attacking police, buildings, thieving, robbing, burning, mugging - we should not be allowed to make such observations, because it is politically incorrect.

So: If you're white and you don't like these events, shut up, keep quiet - you are NOT allowed to comment. No matter what your political affiliations, whether left, right or centre - you WILL be called a racist, you will be accused of being a BNP supporter and you have no right to comment on such issues.

(Am I doing it right yet?)

I asked you who in this thread said that only white people are capable of racism.

And there is no reason to make the observation as the observation says nothing. What purpose does pointing out their race have? I can't see why anyone other than a racist would even make the observation. It'd be like female posters saying "Notice they're all male"

Or me as a proud Northerner saying "They're all Southerners, I see". Yes, in Tottenham of course most of them are Southerners. Just as in Tottenham in areas with such a large ethnic community, the rioters will be largely represented by people who aren't white. Just like when they protest and riot in Scotland they're usually all white.

Why make such a pointless observation? That's what I ask. And I also asked who in this thread said only white people are capable of racism... But we know the answer is nobody so I expect more sarcasm.

reply to post by mr-lizard


An army of black thugs burned historical building down, beat white pedestrians, send eight police officers to the hospital, torch police cars, and looted stores. An entire double decker public bus was reduced to ashed.

reply to post by Sicul2012




How was it a race riot though?

I haven't seen anyone mention it being a race riot?


It was whites, asians, blacks... jews ALL races.

Mostly young guys.... but a mix of people.

Funny if it was racist, why weren't the different races attacking each other?? Instead they all attacked the police... ironically, it was multiculturalism at work, disgusting behaviour and behaviour that cannot be condoned, but NOT racially motivated.

reply to post by Firefly_


So True! The people who rioted over the weekend don't stand for anything, as they are nothing but thugs and criminals and are only in servitude to themselves. The people I feel sorry for are those good decent people who had their property and cars set on fire by these thugs and also the police officers who got injured trying to do their job.

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by mr-lizard
No - It's only racist if a white person does it. Or if a white person was to comment on such a situation as described above. There is no such thing as a racist black person or a racist asian / muslim etc.

Only white people can be racist. If you disagree then you're obviously a BNP supporter.

Who said that?

Quote them for me.

Fortunately, we have the social scientific and anti-racist understanding of racism to help us with this: racism = discrimination + power + oppressive group effects. This means that racism concerns institutional and, more broadly, structural power and outcomes that systematically benefit one group to the disadvantage of another or other groups.

Well here is some typical leftist gobbledyook for you, that devolves everything to 'power relationships'

ie people who are not 'in power' cannot by definition be racist. - they are allways the 'oppressed victims' and therfore allways 'justified'

wwsword.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by NadaCambia
But even if what you say is true, while it doesn't make them racists I'd say it makes them idiots.

Thank you. We finally got there, to the original point I made three or four pages back. "It doesn't make them racist". Was that difficult to say? You still had to insult them of course ("idiots"), but at least we got there.

I don't know why they didn't vote UKIP. That's a good point you make. Perhaps if they were better informed, they would.

reply to post by yourmaker


There may be a few rotten eggs, but they are not all rotten. If it wasn't for the police, the violence & crime in this country would be a lot worse, so give them some credit where it's due.

The problem I am having is that some people are making the assumption that rioting is a black only activity. That the root cause is the blackness of ones skin. There are a lot of social and cultural factors that are at the heart of this issue. Society creates thugs not your genetic make up. If you want to ignore the social and cultural factors involved then you are going to miss a large part of the picture.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood


Well here is some typical leftist gobbledyook for you, that devolves everything to 'power relationships'

ie people who are not 'in power' cannot by definition be racist. - they are allways the 'oppressed victims' and therfore allways 'justified'

wwsword.blogspot.com...

That's not from this forum though and that person is an idiot, as most people on the left would acknowledge.

Stating that only one race can be racist is by definition racist.

So how many of you think there will be more rioting this evening? I understand there are areas the police have closed off whilst they investigate, could be interesting if the rioters return to the same areas again tonight.

Also I wonder if they have achieved what they wanted by doing this? If they wanted to cause mayhem they did a fairly good job, but if they wanted 'justice' for the guy that was shot I can't help thinking their efforts are in vain! (That's if he didn't deserve to be shot in the first place)

Peace

Originally posted by definity
Well from what i can work out the protest was a peacful one, the people walked to the police station and asked for someone who order the go for the shot to be taken to come out and answer why they shot him instead of send in a negotiator or even attempt to open up a link of comunication before opening fire. but the police stood there and said nothing, and they keept saying nothing, and nothing.... and eventualy this wound people up, so much to the point where a 16 year old girl walked upto the police line and started to asked the police we want to speak to the officer that gave the go for the lethal shot to be fired, next thing is 4/5 police surrounded her and started beating her with battons!, 16 year old girl. 4/5 grown men attacking her with battons? she was un armed! and that from what i can work out this started the roits and violence. it wasnt so much the shooting, it was the police just acting instead of trying to actualy talk to people.

The BBC has another unconfirmed report of policing approaches being a factor in things kicking off...
_________________________________________________________________________________

20:20 BST - The violence begins as bottles are thrown at two patrol cars close to the police station. One of the vehicles is set alight, while the other is pushed into the middle of the road before also being torched.

Unconfirmed reports say the incident was sparked off by a confrontation between a teenage protester and a police officer.

Riot officers from the Territorial Support Group and police on horseback are deployed to disperse the crowds but come under attack from bottles, fireworks and other missiles.

www.bbc.co.uk...
_________________________________________________________________________________

I'm not saying there weren't people around who were 'up for it' from the start and would have used any excuse, but the example above (should it be confirmed) would be enough to set off a riot in any similar community in a lot of countries I can think of...

The police are not the law, they are the servants of the law. They should never be allowed to forget this, and good police people don't. Many moons ago I was employed by the Crown Prosecution Service to carry files about relating the prosecution of bad police personnel. That is why, from a young age, I have always been ready to question authority when it acts illegally or unjustly.

A uniform doesn't intimidate me - neither does the human in it if they are behaving in line with their duty. I respect the police have a very hard job and I don't agree with condemning them 'en masse'. I can only confirm that bad elements do exist and they can be incredibly hard to prosecute successfully due to 'closing ranks' phenomenon.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by NadaCambia
But even if what you say is true, while it doesn't make them racists I'd say it makes them idiots.

Thank you. We finally got there, to the original point I made three or four pages back. "It doesn't make them racist". Was that difficult to say? You still had to insult them of course ("idiots"), but at least we got there.

I don't know why they didn't vote UKIP. That's a good point you make. Perhaps if they were better informed, they would.

The reason I didn't say so earlier is because I didn't believe people were stupid enough to vote for what is quite clearly a racist party, for reasons other than racism.

You said you have friends who definitely aren't racist so it's only decent to take you at your word rather than slandering you a liar. But I still feel, given your earlier post is true, that such excuses or reasoning are readily abused by people who are quite clearly racist but for w/e reason don't want to be seen or recognised as such. I know so many blatant racists who claim not to be, for reasons I can't work out.

Look at it from my perspective though. If I was a Muslim and said I supported Al Qaeda or some other far-right extremist group(not to say BNP are as bad as Al Qaeda) to protest the political system in Britain and the treatment me and my fellow Muslims receive(I'm not Muslim, just a hypothetical) I think you'd be reluctant to accept such a notion. I don't think you'd accept or tolerate protest support in this way. Not to say you wouldn't hypothetically believe me, but that you'd think of me as an idiot and lunatic

What have the police/papers said;

Mark duggan was a 'gangster' who shot at police.
He was shot and killed.
They tried to revive him, but it was too late.
The police have passed it on to the IPCC
His friends, family, and the wider community protested.
Thugs joined in, and started burning down shops and vehicles.
They then started looting.

What witnesses, and people who were involved say;
Mark duggan was not a gangster.
His partner said he'd been paranoid, and struggling to 'get a grip' since the fatal stabbing of his cousin, in march.
He was pulled over as part of Operation Trident. An operation which specifically investigates the black community.
He had surrendered his weapon, and himself, and was on the floor, when police shot him twice, in the face, with an mp5.
The community gathered to try and get some answers from the police.
A girl came forwards and approached police lines, and demanded that a senior police officer come and speak to those that had gathered for the protest.
The police 'set upon her' with batons.
The crowd went nuts.
After a few hours of rocks being hurled at police, and police cars being burned out, people who had got wind of what was happening spread the message on twitter/facebook, and that's when the looting and burning down of shops began.

My questions would be;

CAN the IPCC be trusted to do a proper investigation?

SHOULD a 16 year old girl, have been batoned, for demanding to see a police officer?

Because those combined things are what sparked this off.. and unfortunately those issues have now been buried by the actions of a bunch of bandwagon jumping greedy violent thugs.

Video, where witness describes what happened to the girl.

reply to post by welshbeliever


Sorry but I think you are missing the point. Most people in this country would have absolutely nothing to do with the trash involved in these violent riots, if anything most would be on the side the police.

reply to post by Dystopiaphiliac


Yeah, so lets use the democratic process, where idiots in fancy dress just sit around endlessly discussing things, people with their own agenda veto things, and nothing gets done. Look at the state of the country. Peace has clearly failed, most humans don't work that way.

reply to post by kindred


I remember the days when I had your mindset, however witnessing police corruption, and some of the outright evil acts they get up to kind of scars you for life. This country is getting worse because of thugs who abuse their power and antagonise people. Nothing is ever done about the worst offenders, only scapegoats are ever made to make it appear like something is being done. The police have too much power and do not work on behalf of the people.