Riots in Tottenham, London

www.enfieldindependent.co.uk...

RIOT police have arrived in Enfield Town as small groups of hooded youngsters arrive in cars and on buses and trains.

After messages on social networking sites Twitter and Facebook that rioting that started in Tottenham would spread to Enfield at 4pm, there is no large-scale disorder, but police are using stop-and-search on people arriving in the area.

Around 100 people are waiting in small groups of 4 or 5 around Enfield Town Station in Southbury Road, as police in riot vans continue to arrive.

Just to quote the first few lines of that story EvanB mentions from the Guardian:

Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands.

In other words all those apologists who have come here to support police action, instead of waiting to see the results of various reports, didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Yes, its great to quote the Daily Mail - also known as the daily hate, or Murdoch's gutter press mouthpiece The Sun, but most people who are more rational know by experience to not trust the initial police line.

How about thinking a little bit before making judgements both about police, rioters and Duggan?

Originally posted by Surreptitious

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by The X

 

perfect example of the media protraying what the government or police wants. the only picture they showed on the guy that got shot was a picture of him making a gun sign with his hand!
They say he wouldnt have been involved in any gun crimes, yet the news portray him already as a gun criminal

Mark Duggan WAS a gun criminal,

Get over it.

Stop living in denial.

Criminal or not,It doesnt justify a police state,and the use of excessive force. BTW,The rioters are using the situation to loot,and create mayhem. MHO

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by The X

My point is that there have been so many miscarriages of justice and the police have been seen so many times recently to be out to cover each others arse that they will not be believed.

And that is justification for destroying peoples homes and businesses?

Sorry, but these scum need to be shot. There is NO justification for their actions. They are evil scum and I will happily pull the trigger.

They're not evil and they don't deserve death. They're idiots and thugs who are misdirecting their anger.

You sound no better than they are.

reply to post by Essan


I never said it was justification, it is a proposition as to why possibly they are rioting. i make no apologies for them or myself. If they want to riot let them, it will blow over, they will lie as much as the police do in the coming weeks, in statements, and in court, and those people who are law abiding citizens get to sit on the sidelines and wait for the next critical spark they have no control over but the supposed PTB do.
The law abiding citizen has most to lose when you have a corrupted and inept police force.
Flame them, they give them the perceived "justification", not me, if the police dont want to see it, then they should be more honest, upfront, professional.

This is going to cause soo much trouble when it gets out

Looks like a genuine cover-up

When you are wrong you are wrong, so i was wrong

7.35pm: Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports The revelation will fuel the fury

The revelation will fuel the fury in tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers. It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died. before he died. The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet. These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object.

source

Originally posted by EvanB
Looks like there is a lot more to this than meets the eye.

The bullet found in the radio is apparantly police issue


guardian.co.uk

Now that is interesting. Especially hearing some of the claims(I'm not sure where they originate) that he was shot unarmed and face down on the floor.

Of course that's conjecture but the news that "Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands." would suggest the original media implications could well be inaccurate. And would go a long way to explaining local anger, however misdirected(regarding burning peoples stores and homes).

But then again we know nothing at the moment.

How would that happen btw, I'm not familiar with guns and shoot-outs. How would Cop A end up with Cop B's bullet in his radio.

Or are "police issue bullets" common in the criminal underworld?

It's funny, the comparative reactions to this sort of thing with Americans and Brits.

For Americans, it's nothing demonstrative of the state of things, but for Brits, it shows how zoo-like the nation has become, how the country is an overcrowded #hole, how everything and everyone, is wrong.

More on the right track, but still, stop the damned over the top moaning already. Thats why our convict cousins call the ex-pats there the "moaning poms".

reply to post by NadaCambia


Maybe cop B fired on suspect, with cop A being in the line of fire.................

Originally posted by The X
The law abiding citizen has most to lose when .....

.... you turn against law and order and accept that it's okay to have no social responsibllity

Our police are holding a very fragile line. It's breaking ...... and many on places like ATS seem to want it. Maybe they'll think differently when it's their house that is burnt down, their granny mugged for £10, and they who are destitute and on the streets because of the mob .....

The time has come to fight back. Because the police alone cannot hold back the tide

Originally posted by Morg234
It's funny, the comparative reactions to this sort of thing with Americans and Brits.

For Americans, it's nothing demonstrative of the state of things, but for Brits, it shows how zoo-like the nation has become, how the country is an overcrowded #hole, how everything and everyone, is wrong.

More on the right track, but still, stop the damned over the top moaning already. Thats why our convict cousins call the ex-pats there the "moaning poms".

Whinging poms*

Never heard "moaning poms" before

These are my thoughts
1. Do they not realise that the rioters are trashing their own neighbourhood not really doing themselves any favours

2. What do you think is going to happen when you shoot at the police

3. Ok so people are saying the guy was a nice man and had four children. Yet he was still walking around with a loaded gun. Also what would of happened if the policeman was shot and killed there wouldn't of been uproar. If the shooter was ever caught he wouldnt of even got a life sentence

reply to post by EvanB


That sentence about the bullet type MetPol use explained something I was wondering about myself, and that is if a police radio would even stop a bullet!

I have held a police radio and whilst they are pretty hefty, I though a bullet would bust through one no problem.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

Maybe cop B fired on suspect, with cop A being in the line of fire.................

Maybe - Is that common? Would seem a bit amateurish.

Certainly though this news will pass from word of mouth, probably get exaggerated some and only serve to fuel the anger. If there wasn't going to be trouble tonight there will be with that news release

2. What do you think is going to happen when you shoot at the police

reply to post by ThePeaceMaker


I'm not condoning the rioting, but what happens if it turns out he didn't shoot a police officer? They believed a bullet found in a Police radio was possibly shot from the offender, but, it turns out it was a police bullet. Make of that what you will

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

Maybe cop B fired on suspect, with cop A being in the line of fire.................

Maybe - Is that common? Would seem a bit amateurish.

Certainly though this news will pass from word of mouth, probably get exaggerated some and only serve to fuel the anger. If there wasn't going to be trouble tonight there will be with that news release

Only possible if cop A was stood facing cop B because they wear the radios on their chests! Either that or some dozey cop put his vest on back-to-front that morning!

reply to post by Essan


But if the Law is willing to coverup excessive force,and mistakes,regardless of criminal activity or not,what rights do you really think law abiding citizens have? The world is a dangerous place,even more if those in power,with the weapons,use those weapons,like the criminals they are chasing.

Who police's the police?

Anger at high unemployment and cuts in public services, coupled with resentment of the police, contributed to an explosion of violence and looting in a deprived London neighborhood, residents said Sunday.

Rioters set police patrol cars, buildings and a double-decker bus on fire. Others took advantage of the police being occupied to loot a nearby retail park, smashing shop windows and hauling away televisions, computers and sports shoes.

www.reuters.com...

Yeah, that's really gonna make a different and indeed justifies their actions .......

What do you call people who # in their own beds? Morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is good to have a riot every once in a while.
Was it based on a misunderstanding? Was it based on truth? Was it based on children gone wrong from being raised by a socialist gov?
It does not really matter which one.
The only thing I know is any police officer is going to think really really hard next time they use a weapon against a human being.

I'm actually quite gutted that it is so easy to be right about a police force that is stereotyped for miscarriages of justice, extra judicial killings, and cover ups.
I have said all along that the kids on the streets would know what the truth is, they wouldn't be reacting to something like this if he was caught on a blag, they would see that as just plain bad luck, but when the police kill one of their own in less than honest circumstances and try to launch a cover up, of course anger is going to be overwhelming for an "Elder" of the estate.

They want to see "Justice", they know they wont get it, he wont get it, best kick off and let all that anger and frustration vent. not a justification either, this is probably how they are really feeling.
And to say others are just using the situation for their own ends is unfair.
Whatever happens is the result of potentially the worst kind of police misconduct, this isnt the first time it has happened, their have been a few high profile deaths in police custody in the last few months.
Maybe they really do feel they have to fight back now, and enough is enough, trust me, this could really spiral out of control, the police need to be very careful now about handling this, the rest of the uk is impoverished and feeling the pain of benefit cutbacks, no jobs, no futures. what have they to loose?.