Pentagon Deploying 20,000 Troops In U.S.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I was merely adding that since the actions in Libya they have been flying more of them and more often. They fly their jets supersonic over the university all the time. I am well aware of the Davis Monthan Air Base, I got my motorcycle safety certification there (yay 40% off my insrance) and used to school a bunch of them in B-Jiu-Jitsu.

The national guard is here for national disasters. They are not full time soldiers. And I will say that most of the soldiers I have met (many many many) tend to be missing more than a few screws, especially the ones that have seen action so I don't trust them much.

They should say they are deploying Army Core of Engineers or Red Cross if you want them ready to deal with WMD or chemical biological as they actually are trained in repairing the type of attacks you are mentioning. Soldiers are the ones who use these weapons on people (well them or terrorist, depends what kool aid you drink).

There is no reason for 20,000 disaster troops as we have soo much already designed and trained to deal with said situation.

Oh and what kind of terrorists are we going to need 20k troops to battle?

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Deebo
Federal or not, what does Posse Commitatus do to make any difference? They are still just as armed and well funded. Same toys and uniforms. Who pays the bill when guard troops go over sea's, the state of that unit still does?

Man your all over the place with this. It makes a huge difference. If Federal troops were to enter a state outside of its mandate it could be construed as an invasion by the Federal government. This would be why states have guard units. We are 50 individual nations wrapped up under a federal government.

As far as this topic goes, the fearmongering revolves around the assumption that 20k troops will be on city streets tomrrow, which is not true. The assumption is this is a first step for the government to declare martial law, which is not true.

Based on your argument, If I am working as a city police officer, and am requested by County to take a call outside of my city, you would consider me an occupying force acting outside of my authority, which simply is not true.

This is the same case with the 20k troops. If they are deployed its because of a massive incident resulting in a massive amount of life.

Originally posted by RevRay
No. The national guard can be an excuse/loophole to override posse commitatus.

State guard units are not subject to Posses Commitatus. I dont know how else to get this through peoples heads. State Guard units answer to their commander in chief, which would be the Govenor. Each state has an adjutant general who oversees the state military units. They are also used as a liason between state and federal commands for training, deployment etc.

Because state guard units answer to the Govenor, they are not subject to Posses Commitatus.

Please, quit fear mongering.

Also if you read my 1st post..

Yea, how many major cities do we have, divided by 20k.. That isn't squat. Now for one city yes, but it wont be mine, will be one of the big 5. And then, you also have 20,000 families of those 20,000 troops, which if you include brothers/sisters cousins baby mamas will be more like 100-150k. What happens when they cannot be guaranteed safety, what will the 20k do? Me thinks the troops may wake up, id hope.


That is far from fear mongering. The exact opposite actually. And if I am not mistaken, your a police officer yes? Covering big brothers butt, like a typical one.

Deebo

reply to post by jaycen420

It is openly admitted that the internal force will be used to quail civil unrest due to massive large scale terror attacks and/or economic purposes.

This part truly scared me. With the way politicians have been acting, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they were intentionally trying to drive the economy into the ground.

If there were to be some form of distraction from the war on drugs and a flood of idiots came flying over our borders, that would be good cause right?

I think this is more about preps for an eventual disaster scenario in which case the troops would be welcome.

I think the difference here could possibly be that if we did run into some terrible invasion situation where troops were sent in, many Americans would also come to the aid of those 20k troops.

This may be old news but the plans continue to evolve as time goes by and no event happens. what it will evolve into before any disaster natural or manmade will only make the preps more solid and well thought out.

Something is up, we all know it.

reply to post by Sek82


I think it is great they have nothing for 20k troops to do. How about they fire them and save us tax payers money as we already have organizations set up to deal with this.

This just reminds me of Obama talking about wanting another million man militia
www.usacarry.com... (has links to sources)

Originally posted by Deebo
I am not fear mongering at all,

Using an article a few years old that describe a setup designed to protect civilians, and twisting the intent to suggest its a fake plot in order to declare martial law is fear mongering. As we have seen, some people in these threads dont take the time to do research. They just se something and go with the flow.

That is fearmongering. Scaring the bajesus out of people by misusing information in an effort to paint a picture that is not real.

Its one thing to be distructful of the Government. I have no issues with that at all. However, when a person issue with the government goes into the realm of manipulation of others to come around to a person point of view, I have issues with that.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
I am just saying, if the federal gov wants troops on the ground, they can and have used NG troops.

The full time military, all branches, has about 1.4 million members. There is an additional 1.2 million in reserve / guard units. They are already on the ground being we have bases all over the US. In case people didnt notice this was the same prior to 9/11.

Why use 9/11 as a ruse when they could have just declared martial law and taken over the us? The only answer to that question btw is the government couldnt be sure they could count on all members of the military and federal government. If they couldnt then, what makes you think they could now? Especially when patriotism and support of our troops are at all time highs?

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
Sure its "up to" the governor, but name one governor or AG that has denied the feds their ng troops?

Well, Govenor Blanko of Louisiana for one. She refused the federalization of her natioanl guard units. During katrina they had a dual military command that had to coordinate with each other, instead of being under 1 unfied command.

In order for Bush to federalize her troops after her refusal, he would have had to declare the State of Louisiana and the City of New Orleans in a state of rebellion, which his lawyers said would not fly.

Aside from that it goes back to the civil rights movement, starting with Brown Vs. Board of Education. In 1957 in Little Rock Arkansas 9 black students were going to attend Central High School. At the time the Govenor of Arkansas deployed national guard units to prevent them from attending school.

Preisdent Eisenhower federalised the troops and ordered them to protect the students. This is not a violation of posses commitatus since the State of Arkansas was actually willfully violating a Supreme Court ruling.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
GWB activated my guard unit.. The federal gov has an easy out, since it's called the "national" guard. They still have control over it if and when they want.

And here in Joplin the Govenor activated guard units to assist local law enforcement. Last I check outside my window, the guard units were pretty much gone, along with law enforcement from 4 different states and Federal law enforcement from a multitude of agencies, including the Postal Police.

I am writing this from Joplin, and as of yet no one is knocking or kicking in my door to arrest me for having a difference of opinion with the government.

My question for people who fear the government I ask this -
What makes you so special that you think the Government cares about who you are or what your opinion is?

in the event of a nuke / bio / chem atack, what makes you think their primary focus is going to be the coup, and then think about how to deal with radiation fall out or typohid mary in the populace?

reply to post by Xcathdra


Thank you for that much needed dose of sanity. I was beginning to think I was the only one whose fear-monger-detector went off reading the first few pages of this thread.

Originally posted by BarmyBilly
reply to post by Nobama

 

A few shots are enough to disperse a crowd of thousands, regardless if half of you are armed, a few handguns is no match for a professionally trained army.

Finally some one else gets it...if America starts a revolution we won't be shooting @ congress it will be our armed forces

Oh this whole topic is ridiculous. I don't mean the original user who posted it. but the Government leadership actually doing this. They are openly stating their full intention to violate Posse Comitatus right out in the open for everyone to see. Well that IS a problem in what this says about the state of our nation in 2011.

However, 20,000 troops? In America?? Are they clinically INSANE?? At the height of things, we had nearly 200,000 American combat forces and various support personnel in Iraq with a contractor 'army' of perhaps 50,000-100,000 more (depends on what statistic you pull to look at.) Okay.. that is 250,000 to 300,000 U.S., Allied and private contractor forces in a nation with a SMALL FRACTION of the U.S. population. With all that force and power, we still couldn't even drive from one end of town to the other without probable IED or other attacks upon any convoy that wasn't a rolling armory.

So.... 20,000 troops is supposed to do...what again? Oh, it's pushed Americans even further from a Government out of control and totally beyond the limits of Constitutional power as our system has it, but in real terms? Well.. Okay, those troops can respond to a city (small city) single point disturbance. A one-off and localized event.

I hate to mention this to the power that be, but a terrorist attack is all Northern Command can effectively BE used for. Anything beyond outsiders pulling an attack will mean America is already hitting a point where civil unrest is in the open, violent, and so threatening that U.S. Active Duty Combat forces would even cross someone's mind to send in. In my view, by the time that point is reached, if it ever is (God Forbid), 20,000 troops will find themselves outnumbered at dozens if not HUNDREDS to 1...If they don't just AWOL before going against an American citizen on American soil in the first place.

Basically..... I wouldn't worry about this. It's nothing but more ammunition down the road to feed the very dramatic changes our system is crying out for. Changes are coming to the U.S. system. They must come. Either by planning or in the wake of financial collapse. Either way, they're coming. I just don't view the Military as having any role, either way, to those changes. Its scary that our political leadership is so anxious to show that wrong for their own reasons and political careers.

reply to post by Pseudonaut


Well said, Pseudonaut / Xcathdra. My personal opinion is that this is all hot air. To those baying
for change, ( And they may well be justified, in some respects..) whatever you think of the way
your government / big business interests run America, does anyone REALLY want civil unrest
across America ? Think about the consequences...

Be careful what you wish for, it may come true. I hope if I'm wrong the police / national guard /
army can maintain control, for everybodys sake.

reply to post by Deebo

That is far from fear mongering. The exact opposite actually. And if I am not mistaken, your a police officer yes? Covering big brothers butt, like a typical one. Deebo

If I may interject...

Speaking from past experience, and contrary to popular belief, police officers are not in cahoots with the State or the Feds to carry out some agenda. Now, when we're talking major cities like New York, you might have some exceptions. Overall, most police officers just go to work everyday and think about doing their best to get home that night in one piece.

People act like the police are actively plotting against citizens with the Feds, the State, and the NWO. This is a complete myth. Sure, sometimes local cops are updated on new laws, or changes to old laws, that require them to do different things in their job, such as the DUI checkpoints. Police officers weren't responsible for the implementation of DUI checkpoints. Trust me, most cops probably aren't even aware of how DUI checkpoints even came into existence, they just know that their department now asks them to conduct them on occasion. This is only one example.

I know people are skeptical about our troops and how they will ultimately react if placed in a situation where they have to take action against a civilian. I can understand why, to a certain degree, because of the known psychological conditioning that takes place within the military in order to prepare troops for battle. However, police training is quite different in this regard. There is no instruction suggesting that you are expected to act on behalf of the government for any purpose other than to uphold the laws that are in place.

My point is, cops, in general, are not in on any type of conspiracy with the government. They could unwittingly be used as a tool by the government through the various laws that might be put in place, but that's not the same as intentionally carrying out a hidden agenda that they had prior knowledge of.

Whoa, that's insane. 20,000 is a big number as well. Maybe TPTb are planning another false flag, considering these troops are used to quall civil unrest/terrorism

Originally posted by ElectricWizard
Wouldn't we be noticing a lot a lot a lot more mil presence in those areas? Or am I just ignorant to it? It would be nice to have a website / thread that monitors that sort of activity

Good ole Americans too used to being spoon fed everything.

Even when it comes to someone or something that is going to be a threat to them, they gotta have a twitter or facebook feed to tell them.

Originally posted by daaskapital
Whoa, that's insane. 20,000 is a big number as well. Maybe TPTb are planning another false flag, considering these troops are used to quall civil unrest/terrorism

20k is not a large number.

New York City Police department has about 40k officers working for them.

Who are "tptb"
Where are "tptb"
What is the false flag attack coming?
Whee will it hit?

How do you know, before it even happens, thats its a flas flag attack?

reply to post by Xcathdra


Again why do yo want soldiers with guns there instead of aid workers or engineers that can address any other problems?

Are you claiming that the wmd or chemcal attack would destroy an entire state? if that was the case then they would need more than 20k troops to repopulate the disaster area.

(I feel there is a high chance of something occurring around 11/9/11/) there now you can rub it in my face when it doesn't happen lol.

reply to post by NightGypsy


In the government's eyes, the police is pretty much like the TSA. Just stupid pawns to do their bidding without question.

Barry: Go forth and raid and plunder all homes! You can keep what you find and get a nice bonus on your paychecks!
Cops: Yes Sir!

Get them in in a small capacity to start with. Nothing too big just a few here a few there that is the start. next thing you know it will be "oh we need to increase to 25,000" then "oh well lets go 30,000" all the while the american people are starting to get used to it and accepting it as common place, then before we know it there is enough troops stationed here cloe enough to our communities to swiftly come in and take us over and squash all who resist. then they will have martial law and rule us just like other countrys. It is time for the people to stand up and tell the Obama administration ENOUGH IS ENOUGH we WILL NOT let you take away our rights!!! lets see it for what it is, I mean look at the details, they are already trying everything they can to limit and eventually completly do away with our second amendment rights which will leave us unable to properly defend ourselves which will make it that much easier for them to take over. time to wake up folks take a stand for our rights FEAR THE GOVERNMENT THAT FEARS YOUR GUNS!!! we need to support the NRA more than ever now. Thank you for this post
.
TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA IF WE WANT TO REMAIN A FREE NATION IT IS TIME TO STAND UP AND DEFEND OUR RIGHTS. TELL WASHINGTON NO!!!!!!! OUR CURRENT LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES ARE DOING JUST FINE

reply to post by Xcathdra


Wait don't tell me that you actually think police officers really serve and protect the people? Oh boy....
Sorry to break this to you but they only serve and protect their own paychecks and pensions.

Originally posted by MasterGemini
Again why do yo want soldiers with guns there instead of aid workers or engineers that can address any other problems?

Care to point out where it states all 20k would be dispatched....
Care to point out where it says engineers and aid workers wont be present or assisting.
Care to point out where it says everything becomes subordinate to the troops present?
Care to point out where it says they will take over sole rsponsibility for Law Enforcement.

Originally posted by MasterGemini
Are you claiming that the wmd or chemcal attack would destroy an entire state? if that was the case then they would need more than 20k troops to repopulate the disaster area.

Of course not. However, please do some research into radiation spread, or how chemical / biological agents can spread. The intial assumption in that scenario is going to assume anyone within a certain radious is infected / contaminated. Its going to take some time to filter people out of those affected areas. Its done to ensure we dont let a typhoid mary into unaffected population.

The troop numbers and training is designed to augment an support, not invade an occupy. As I said, if you have a large portion of a state affected, you cant rely on any emergency servies in that area, since they are affected. Attempting to pull up civilian law enforcement and move them into the area is time consuming and a nightmare to boot since they would be prohibitied intially from operating in that state until mutual aid agreements are reached or emergency authroization is given by the Govenor.

Operating under Federal credentials removes / streamlines that process. The same will also hold true for medical personell as well. During Katrina medical people were actually Federalized os they could practice medicine while using out of state credentials.

All you guys are seeing and fixating on is the troop numbers while failing to place it into context or apply common sense.

Originally posted by MasterGemini
(I feel there is a high chance of something occurring around 11/9/11/) there now you can rub it in my face when it doesn't happen lol.

edit on 25-7-2011 by MasterGemini because: (no reason given)

Thats the point.... Its easier to train the troops nd have this plan in place and not ever need it, rather than have something massive occur and not have the resources to deal with it.

Its always easier to have 20k troops respond, and send 18k of them away than having only 2k troops arrive, and needing an additional 18k.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

You guys have thourougly scared the crap out of yourselves through misinformation and a lack of understanding and knowledge on how all this works. Instead of asking questions, you guys just assume, and that is the major issue you guys have.

Quit assuming and ask...

Call up your rep and ask questions.