Ron Paul votes against the "Cut, Cap, and Balance Act". Why?

the bill was never meant to be passed

it is campaigning

they will bring this up come campaign season, count on it

Honestly. what's w/ all this voting. The majority of the citizens want the people controlling this country out. What's the point of voting?

let us pick up what George Washington left off and overthrow the damn government. The government is supposed to be by the people and for the people. When that statement cease to ring true, it's time to turn the ship around and overthrow whichever power that's plaguing the country and our world.

People don't revolt now because we are civilized. Civilized rule is ideal, but when people are starving, nature destroyed, families perished, there is no civilization. If this was a company, and the CEO was f-ing around, we'd veto him out. We'd make sure he's out.

The govt is diff obviously. there's the military. So there needs to be a movement big and convincing enough to persuade the permission to take over.

Just thoughts. details can be discussed over.

Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by robyn

 

U.S. Debt Clock

US National Debt: $14,522,977,000,000+

US Debt Held By Foreign Countries: $4,636,914,000,000+
US Trade Deficit (Owed to China): $346,226,553,600,000+
US Unfunded Liabilities: $114,766,570,000,000+

(+ Rounded Up)

If we do not do something drastically, the United States will be owned by foreign countries. At some point in our history, we will have a president who will surrender the US to a foreign entity.

edit on 7/21/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

This is why I support Ron Paul. With age has come a certain degree of discernment. There can be no more business as usual in Washington because the business as usual is killing us as a nation and eroding our freedoms. We live under an ever evolving and expanding level of tyrrany. One can feel it and it's stifling.

The cabal of politicians, megacorporations and big banks is killing us. Mr. Obama is their stooge. Mr. O is also an extremely convincing liar. The once noble fourth estate has become nothing more than pitchmen and spokespuppets for the corrupt power structure.
The Debt Ceiling Drama - Ron Paul

The debt ceiling debate is providing plenty of opportunity for political theater in Washington. Proponents of raising the debt ceiling are throwing around the usual scare tactics and misinformation in order to intimidate opponents into accepting more debt and taxes. It is important to distinguish the truth from the propaganda.

We are headed for rough economic times either way, but the longer we put it off, the greater the pain will be when the system implodes. We need to stop adding more programs and entitlements to the problem. We need to stop expensive bombing campaigns against people on the other side of the globe and bring our troops home. We need to stop allowing secretive banking cartels to endlessly enslave us through monetary policy trickery. And we need to drastically rethink government's role in our lives so we can get it out of the way and get back to work.

for full text:
paul.house.gov...:debt-ceiling-drama&catid=62:texas-straight-talk&Itemid=69

The man is honest, and he cherishes our liberty and sovereignty. I trust him to do what's right..

reply to post by grahag

Again, check your numbers. You're wrong. That's BILLION. Not trillion.

You are correct although I am talking only ONE year.

(That is what I get for trying to do math when I am tired and my eyes are crossing)

However I will be darned if I know of how you came up with a loss of 2.74 trillion - $2,740,000,000,000 that is equivalent to the revenue for the ENTIRE year of 2008.

Number of zeros U.S. & scientific community Other countries
3................................................ thousand ................................thousand
6 .............................................. million .................................million
9 .............................................. billion .................................1000 million (1 milliard)
12.............................................. trillion............................billion

www.jimloy.com...

* In 2008 the federal government collected $2.5 trillion, an amount equal to 17.7 percent of GDP. Federal revenue has ranged from 14.4 to 20.9 percent of GDP over the past five decades, averaging 18.2 percent.

* The individual income tax has been the largest single source of federal revenue since 1950, averaging just over 8 percent of GDP.

* Payroll taxes swelled following the creation of Medicare in 1965. Taxes for Medicare, combined with periodic increases in Social Security taxes, caused payroll tax revenue to grow from 1.6 percent of GDP in 1950 to more than 6 percent since 1990. Payroll taxes also include railroad retirement, unemployment insurance, and federal workers’ pension contributions.

* Revenue from the corporate income tax fell from between 5 and 6 percent of GDP in the early 1950s to 2.1 percent of GDP in 2008.

* Excise taxes fell steadily throughout the same period, from nearly 3 percent of GDP in 1950 to 0.5 percent in recent years.

www.taxpolicycenter.org...

reply to post by grahag

The wars aren't even in the budget, which to me is unconscionable. Our leaders get an urge to go to war and they don't think twice about whether we should due to JUST the cost. We can't afford them and the longer we wait to get out, the more in the hole we'll be. Wouldn't hurt to close about 400 military bases around the world as well and bring all those people home and set them up at the airports, harbors, and borders. They're trained and motivated to protect our country and with enough discipline to follow through. Mix that with ending the Bush tax cuts and we could end up out of debt in less than 20 years.

OK I will bite.

IF you get rid of foreign interference - Military AND foreign aid
IF you get rid of all the idiotic pork barrel spending - ie 2 billion to study cross-eyed cats
IF you get rid of a lot of the blasted regulations (and petty Hitlers)
IF you get rid of the FED or at least make the fraction in "fractional reserve" 75% instead of 3%
IF you get rid of all the free trade agreements
IF you get rid of all the "employ foreigners but not US citizen programs"
AND you increase tariffs/excise tax/ import duties or whatever name you wish to 3 to 5%

THEN I could see a bit of an increase in taxes but as long as much of my tax dollar goes into the FED I ain't interested.

Unfortunately the deal is always raise taxes and spend it all PLUS more. That type of deal I am not interested in and I think a lot of other Americans agree.

OH, I forgot to add

Make drugs and prostitution legal and tax the heck out of it! Why should the CIA get all the profit

Heck if you make the "Sins" - drugs, prostitution and gambling - legal and tax them you will not NEED to raise taxes.

reply to post by crimvelvet

The value for imports to the USA for the year 2008 was $1,987,000,000,000 a 1% tax on that is $19,870,000,000 that is $19.87 TRILLION

My math is different than yours,

1% of 1.987 Trillion =

1,987,000,000,000 x .01 = 19.87 BILLION

(Remove 2 zeros from the total)

That would not put much of a dent in the deficit....

None of this matters. Raising the taxes on the rich will not effect the deficit or pay down the debt. It is all a dog and pony show folks BECAUSE ALL YOUR TAXES PAY THE INTEREST ON THE DEBT ONLY!!! They do not pay for any government services. These idiots are going to raise the debt ceiling so they can obligate us to paying even more interest. YOUR ARE BEING SCREWED BLUED AND TATTOOED AND you all are arguing over whether they do it to you doggy style or missionary.... SIGH!

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Much of that deficit was caused by the wars in iraq and afghanistan and low taxes. Now that the wars had ended and scaled back and spending expected to be less, the deficit CAN BE CUT, along with a raise in taxes on the super rich, so that the economy can finally grow its legs through tech innovation along with better management and harvesting of US resources with the increased loans.

To deny such loans will only lead to untold sufferings and miss opportunities. We all stand in a critical time. It's NOT about partisan politics anymore. Its doing what is right, not only for america, but for mankind as well, for the ramifications of default is APPALLING when case studies of relevant and pertinent historical events are used!!!!!

edit on 20-7-2011 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)

Much of the deficit was not created by recent wars. You would also be astonished by how much the defense off sets the amount it spends by selling military technology to nato countries.

I thank the many who contributed their valuable insights and links, a matter of utter seriousness there is no words to describe.

Although much had concentrated on the taxation aspect, either to cut or not to cut and had given valid points, it is not the only solution out of our woes. It is only part of it, for there is a bigger picture involved and only in comprehending it fully can we find the necessary solution out of our predicaments. We are not a mainstream site, but a conspiracy site whereby we take pride in looking at EVERY angle of an issue, over the bigger picture, leaving no stone unturned so that solutions or at least better awareness be found.

Many wish they can foretell the future, and had depended on crystal ball gazers, horoscopes, statisticians, economists, etc so as to avoid the pitfalls. But there is no need for such. Within our current civilisation of 5000 known years, much of what we are going through had already been gone through by our ancestors. We only need to study it in detail and in depth, apply it within rational and logical bounds into our current woes and we will know how it will eventually end. As the saying goes 'History often repeats itself. Those who fail to learn from it are only doomed to repeat it'.

The closest relevant history applicable would be Germany after WW1. I would recommend the book by Willam Shirer's ' The rise and fall of the 3rd Reich'. This scholarly masterpiece may be heavy reading, but if faithfully recreates through every document left behind by the germans to show the economics, policial and sociological path the germans took that lead not only to their suffering, but to the rest of the world as well.

Currently, we are at the same position that the germans, a big and powerful nation of 1918 were, with massive debts and uncertainties. What is logically missing now would be a lead actor that will surely arise that will promise with a fork tongue salvation to the masses - elities, military, middle class and poor, but will only lead them to annihilation.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Seeker thank you.

With luck and an open mind we can avoid the fate that has been planned for us by those who do not have our true well being in mind.

....We are not a mainstream site, but a conspiracy site whereby we take pride in looking at EVERY angle of an issue, over the bigger picture, leaving no stone unturned so that solutions or at least better awareness be found.....

The number cited, a loss of 2,2 trillion in revenue, stirred my curiosity bump. This led to the Tax Policy Center and then to Brookings Institute.

The number seems to come from the percentage of the GNP. ...generally fluctuated between 17 and 19 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). By 2000, however, total federal tax receipts had reached 20.9 percent of GDP Under bush it fell to 16.3 percent of GDP.

So it would seem the number comes from a simple calculation of the change in the percent of the gross national product without the whole mess of economic factors, like the free trade agreements added in.

In looking further I found an article where their numbers do not add up. In one chart they claim total US tax burden is 28 percent of GDP While in another article they claim Federal, state, and local revenues totaled nearly $5.2 trillion in 2007. Federal revenue made up almost half of that total, states collected about 30 percent, and local governments brought in 20 percent. I know I have proved my math is bad but the last time I checked 16.3% X 2 = 32.6% not 28%. (I am correct in thinking "almost" means less than aren't I) The first article was trying to show that Americans are not taxed as heavily as other countries. (average = 36.2%) so the USA ranking would have shifted towards the middle.


As usual we find the Elite holding the purse strings of those coming up with this "information" that is then fed as "unbiased" to the public.

Brookings Institute FUNDING: it includes these selected names:

...Brookings, in a joint venture with the Urban Institute, created the Tax Policy Center....

# Ford Foundation
# Carnegie Corporation of New York
# The Rockefeller Foundation
# United Nations

And a long list of Corporations:
# Exxon Mobil Corporation
# State Farm Insurance Companies
# Tel Aviv University
# Tokyo Club Foundation for Global Studies
# Visa USA, Inc.
# Allstate Foundation
# Chevron Corporation
# Government of Denmark
# Johnson & Johnson Family of Companies
# J.P. Morgan Chase Foundation
# Shell Oil Company
# Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
# World Economic Forum
# Alcoa Foundation
# Altria Group, Inc.
# American Express Foundation
# Bank of America Foundation
# The Boeing Company
# BP America Inc.
# Cato Institute
# Coca-Cola Company
# Eli Lilly and Company Foundation
# Ford Motor Company Fund
# GE Foundation
# General Dynamics Corporation
# W.K. Kellogg Foundation
# Lockheed Martin
# MassMutual
# Microsoft Corporation
# Pfizer, Inc.
# Raytheon
# BellSouth Corporation
# Bristol-Myers Squibb Foundation
# Caterpillar Foundation
# CIGNA Foundation
# Citigroup Foundation
# ConocoPhillips
# The Dow Chemical Company
# GlaxoSmithKline
# Goldman, Sachs & Co.
# Honda North America, Inc.
# Marathon Oil Company Foundation
# Merrill Lynch & Co., Inc.
# Mitsubishi International Corporation

www.sourcewatch.org...

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama 41%, Ron Paul 37%

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely Voters shows Paul picking up 37% of the vote, while the president earns 41%. The Texas congressman joins Mitt Romney, Michelle Bachmann, and Rick Perry as candidates within hailing distance of the president at this time.

www.rasmussenreports.com...

America's starting to wake from her slumber. It is a victory everytime Dr. Paul's message reaches the mainstream.


It made DRUDGE. drudgereport.com...

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Currently, we are at the same position that the germans, a big and powerful nation of 1918 were, with massive debts and uncertainties. What is logically missing now would be a lead actor that will surely arise that will promise with a fork tongue salvation to the masses - elities, military, middle class and poor, but will only lead them to annihilation.

It was decided at the 2008 Bildeberg meeting in Virginia. Mr. Obama...

Barack and Bilderberg

Recently, there has been much discussion about Barack Obama having possibly attended the recent Bilderberg conference in Virginia. This speculation arose when Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton sneaked off for a secretive meeting while in Virginia. As the AP reported, "Reporters traveling with Obama sensed something might be happening between the pair when they arrived at Dulles International Airport after an event in Northern Virginia and Obama was not aboard the airplane. Asked at the time about the Illinois senator's whereabouts, [Obama spokesman Robert] Gibbs smiled and declined to comment."7

The press that had been traveling with Obama were not made aware of the secretive meeting until the plane that they assumed Obama would be present on was moving down the runway, prompting many angry questions from the press towards Obama’s spokesman, Robert Gibbs. One reported asked Gibbs, "Why were we not told about this meeting until we were on the plane, the doors were shut and the plane was about to taxi to take off?" to which he responded, "Senator Obama had a desire to do some meetings, others had a desire to meet with him tonight in a private way and that is what we are doing." This preceded another question, "Is there more than one meeting, is there more than one person with whom he is meeting?" Gibbs simply replied, "I am not going to get into all the details of the meeting." He again later repeated that, "There was a desire to do some meetings tonight, he was interested in doing them, others were interested in doing them, and to do them in a way that was private."8

www.globalresearch.ca...

Hillary & Obama In Secret Bilderberg Rendezvous

The neo-liberal website Wonkette, which had previously ridiculed "conspiracy theorists" for ascribing power to Bilderberg, seemed to take a somewhat different tone when it made the connection between Obama and Hillary's meeting and the Bilderberg Group.

"Guess who had a very private talky-talk in (maybe) romantic Northern Virginia tonight, probably at the Bilderberg Group meeting in Chantilly? Your Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton!," states the blog. "They really met and talked, in private, Thursday night. And really, it sounds like they did this at that creepy Bilderberg Group meeting, which is happening now, and which is so secret that nobody will admit they’re going, even though everybody who is anybody goes to Bilderberg."

www.prisonplanet.com...

If Mr. O.'s reelection appears uncertain, Bildeberg has their next "saviour" in the wings... Rick Perry.

reply to post by crimvelvet


Just re-read the article I posted and those numbers tally up the loss in revenue from the year the tax cuts were enacted.

reply to post by grahag

Just re-read the article I posted and those numbers tally up the loss in revenue from the year the tax cuts were enacted.

I am not saying that they do not. The tax went from 20% of GNP down to 16% of GNP so you can do the calculation as 4% of GNP per year.

Although that is easily calculated it is very simplistic.

I had one friend at work refuse a promotion because her net take home from the salary increase would be LESS then she was currently earning. Hourly people in the analytical lab refused overtime for the same reason. My Dad, once he reached a certain level of sales, loafed for the rest of the year so he would not go above a certain sales volume.

Those are real life examples of how people react to a "progressive" tax plan. Remember they are also paying state tax on top of the federal.

Historical marginal income tax rates for Married Filing Jointly at stated income levels

Year........$10,001.......$20,001.......$60,001.......$100,001.......$250,001
1962............26%............38%............62%............75%............89%
1964............23%............34%............56%............66%............76%
1966 - 1976...22%...........32% ............53%............62%............70%
1980.............18%...........24%............54%............59%............70%
en.wikipedia.org...

For a two income professional family a combined salary of over $60,000 and probably over $100,000 is not uncommon. That means you are paying 60% to 75% in taxes on that second income. Once you add in the additional expenses of state income tax (about 10%) clothing, transportation AND childcare, the lower income spouse staying home and perhaps home schooling starts to look real attractive.

HECK that is the exact decision my spouse and I made!

Small businesses react the same. Why bust your butt if the State and federal government are going to take 75% or more of what you earn. You are better off staying home raising a garden and canning and freezing the bounty.

These personel decisions by tax payers plus the job loss from the free trade agreements and more reguation is missing from the picture presented by the simple calculation.

If you look at what was done to American citizens in the external image below, you will see that personal income tax and Payroll tax (SS & medicare) was used to REPLACE the revenue lost from getting rid of tariffs (excise tax) and CORPORATE tax!

TAX IMPORTS NOT WAGES!

Tax on imports = excise tax, see graph:

Maybe they wouldn't let the earmark king, Ron Paul, add his pork to this bill which is why he voted against it.

Originally posted by David9176
Maybe they wouldn't let the earmark king, Ron Paul, add his pork to this bill which is why he voted against it.

Please provide evidence for your blanket statement. Thanks!

reply to post by robyn


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by robyn

 

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thank you for the info. I read your thread and it has been titled and worded to mislead.

Your own referenced article explains that earmarking funds has nothing to do with actually spending the funds. It is Congress' job to earmark funds for spending otherwise it goes to the administration to allocate.

No S+F for trying to mislead.