Pennsylvania Restaurant Bans Children Under 6

This is exactly why people Like Rand Paul have issues with the civil rights act. You cannot force morality on people, it doesn't work and it never will and unless you admit that merely having a belief is a crime then you have to accept the right of a private property owner to admit or exclude whoever they want. There are all black clubs, gay only bars, "natives only" places to eat. Is it moral? no, it shows a bias to one group of people over the other. Is it practical? Sure these places stay in business. Is it legal? Since no one is actually being deprived of life, liberty or property ultimately it is.

Do I go to black only clubs? No, don't care for the music. Do I goto gay only bars? nope, don't swing that way. Do I frequent "native only" eating establishments? No, i don't care for spit in my food. And since I am not willing to put a gun to the heads of these owners in order to be treated as an "equal", I take my business elsewhere.

At what point is discrimination ok?

If you want to pretend that you personally don't discriminate then perhaps you are the one that is the problem, not the bigot that doesn't want to server you.

Originally posted by spolvil
I take it from this rant that you dont have kids yourself?

Is that a bad thing?
I hate children too and would never have one. They're loud, obnoxious and stupid. I think it's a good idea that restaurant had. A restaurant is not a place for children (unless it's McDonalds or other crap kids like so much)
I hate it being a restaurant with stupid loud kids around, that run around screaming and think they own the place.
Kids should be left at home were they belong.
I hope more restaurants follow that idea and i don't ses anything wrong with it.

This one happened to me recently me and my girlfriend were going out for a nice romantic dinner the type of dinner that usually runs a couple $50.00.Well everything was all well and fine until a family showed up with two unruly kids who kept turning around and disrupting our meal.It really burns my a$$ when I work hard for my money and some disruptive child ruins my good time with my girlfriend its actually the parents fault for not being a good disciplinarian.

I would have been better off lighting my money on fire because that meal was a total waste of my money.I absolutely did not enjoy my meal at all. Stressed out because of someones uncontrollable kids.Completely unfair.

Some suggestions:
1. Having a separate sound proofed room.
2. Having no childern under 6 after 7:00 PM.
3. Making parents know that they are responsible for their kids behavior and if disruptive the parents would have to leave the restaurant.

I'm very tired of having my expensive meals ruined by brats!! I also have a 7 year old boy and I would be considerate of others in a restaurant If my child acted up why not others.

Originally posted by ShadowAngel85

Originally posted by spolvil
I take it from this rant that you dont have kids yourself?

Is that a bad thing?
I hate children too and would never have one. They're loud, obnoxious and stupid. I think it's a good idea that restaurant had. A restaurant is not a place for children (unless it's McDonalds or other crap kids like so much)
I hate it being a restaurant with stupid loud kids around, that run around screaming and think they own the place.
Kids should be left at home were they belong.
I hope more restaurants follow that idea and i don't ses anything wrong with it.

So I take it you were always an adult. Lets face it the issue is undisciplined kids and not kids in general. So when and if you were a child you hated yourself?
I defiantly agree that rules should be established to prevent other paying customers from having their meals interrupted by bratty childern.

I dont see the problem to be honest.
Some places are meant to have a family environment for people of all ages including young kids, and some are aimed at a different clientel.
If this restaraunt owner wants to aim at customers who want to enjoy a meal without young kids running around then thats fair enough.
I have 2 kids, one is 6 and the other is 2 before anybody says anything and i would have no problem taking them somewhere that is aimed with kids in mind. Most places near me have indoor play areas aimed at kids under a certain age, so why not have places that are aimed for people who want peace and quiet whilst eating?
I bet he wont lose many customers because of this, and maybe he will gain a few.

If a grown man in a restaurant started screaming at the top of his lungs, the management wouldn't think a thing of removing him for the pleasure of the other diners. Nor would the diners feel bad about asking something to be done.

I don't know why they can't do the same for children. I don't know why children should get a free pass to behave in a disruptive manner, and everyone else is just supposed to accept it. Part of paying to eat at a nice restaurant is for the atmosphere.

Yes, I was a kid once. But my parents NEVER took me to adult restaurants until I was of an age to behave myself. NEVER. Taking babies to restaurants, movies and other public places where adults are meant to gather and enjoy themselves is just really selfish on the part of the parents.

Get a babysitter until the child is old enough to behave or go to McDonald's or Chuck E. Cheese.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
There are restaurants that cater specifically towards young children, so I can't see any problem with this owner doing the reverse of that.

While I don't know whether these restaurants that are aimed at children actually restrict admission to unrelated adults, I can't imagine that these businesses would be overly keen on random grown-ups patronising an eaterie that was marketed and themed towards young children...

Personally speaking, I would certainly welcome a restaurant which barred children. The last thing you want when enjoying a meal is for some obstreperous little brat to ruin it by incessantly screaming and squawking away in the presence of its unconcerned, burger-guzzling parent.

And...I would think children puts you in a whole other insurance liability bracket
Kids spend no money, why would you have to allow them?
They are loiterers.
Seems to me they cannot legally be brought in with your patron unless you allow it.
If the place is not child proof, you would need a liability disclaimer.
They cannot be classified as a possession.
They are a responsibility. Indeed.
Some parents are happy for the waiter or the hostess to watch their kids, sometimes they make it a participation sport where everyone gets to be sitter for a minute on the kids route to the front doors.
We should be charging them baby sitting fees.

I have a kid. When I leave him with a baby sitter to take my lovely wife out to a nice dinner, we aim for places that aren't kid friendly on purpose. If we leave our little man behind, why would we want to hear your clan acting like animals?

And in the same vein, when we take him out, we take him to kid friendly places, e.g. Red Robin. Screaming kids are nothing new there.

Unfortunately, some parents can seem to see that line. It's not discrimination.

For those people that threw down the race card on this...shame on you. Read this. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by ChrisF231

I agree. More up-scale public places should be able to exercise some control over the atmosphere of their establishment. I have often paid very high prices for a meal in a nice restaurant only to be bombarded the entire time by a screaming child or a group of overly loud adults who laugh and talk at such volume that no one else in the room can hold a conversation.

What it all boils down to is that society has disintegrated into a bunch of blathering, loud, self-centered attention freaks who think everyone on the planet needs to know they are around and must hear what they have to say.

I remember going in nice restaurants and could actually hear my companion when the spoke to me from across the table. Sadly, this was 30 years ago. That type of relaxed atmosphere doesn't exist in this society. I don't eat anymore (unless family members insist I go with them on special occasions) because I feel that I could just as well set up a picnic in the center of the freeway and have a more enjoyable meal than what I can experience in today's restaurants.

To those of think this is discrimination, then why is not discrimination on their part against those of us who wish a little respect in restaurants or theaters or malls. Why are we the bad guy? We aren't saying we hate kids. Just saying we don't want to pay 50 bucks for a meal and choke on it every time a kid squeals.

Originally posted by NuroSlam
I'm sure that there will be an outcry about being unfair, that business's should be open to any and everyone that this is unacceptable for a private business owner, who may have worked his whole life to open his restaurant wants to have a nice peaceful atmosphere for his paying customers.

McDain's Restaurant of Monroeville, PA has had it with noisy kids. In an email sent to customers, owner Mike Vuick wrote, "Beginning July 16, 2011, McDain's Restaurant will no longer admit children under six years of age. We feel that McDain's is not a place for young children. Their volume can't be controlled and many, many times, they have disturbed other customers."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I agree with the owner. Its his business. He can refuse business to anyone. Sorry for those that do not agree. Take your kids somewhere else and don't frequent this guy's establishment.

My guess is that age 6, 7, 8 maybe even 9 are about the same. If it were me, I would refuse service to children under the age 12.

Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
I have a kid. When I leave him with a baby sitter to take my lovely wife out to a nice dinner, we aim for places that aren't kid friendly on purpose. If we leave our little man behind, why would we want to hear your clan acting like animals?

And in the same vein, when we take him out, we take him to kid friendly places, e.g. Red Robin. Screaming kids are nothing new there.

Unfortunately, some parents can seem to see that line. It's not discrimination.

For those people that threw down the race card on this...shame on you. Read this. en.wikipedia.org...

I agree 100 percent with you, and most of the other parents i know feel exactly the same. Its nice to have a break from the noise of raising a young family now and again and like you said, there are plenty of places that young children would enjoy being in than just a plain old restaraunt with nothing to offer them.

Unless you cater to children in your place... they are little loiters.
Though they are diminutive they are still spending nothing, running around disrupting the place and need to be thrown out.
You cannot discriminate based on height or even age.
Every other loiterer you ever threw out can claim discrimination of you do not apprehend this annoying little loafer.

Rules clearly posted that everyone must follow. eg
No running, crying or yelling...

Of course I am kidding because we are not allowed to do any of that, though sometimes I think we should.

I used to own a restaurant, we charged an arm and a leg for the child dish and servers were instructed to push the $48 lobster to the children who "loved lobster." Some parents were afraid to deny their spoiled brats whatever they asked for. Soon they weren't bringing them in at all. We simply priced them out.

reply to post by NuroSlam


I am all for this. I have two young and wild children, ages 5 and 2, and I’ll be damned if they are going to act up and disturb someone else at a restaurant. But then again I still believe in discipline for children. I still believe in wearing slacks and a nice shirt and maybe even a coat when dinning out instead of shorts, a tank top and flip flops. I believe you should take your hat off when inside and you should never wear it to the table. I believe in manors and opening doors for ladies and pulling out their chairs. I believe that if you go to a fine dining establishment you should expect a fine dining atmosphere, and not someone’s unruly children running a muck. If that’s how you intend to raise your children then please, Applebee’s has a 20 minute wait.

reply to post by Adyta


um....discrimination by sex, race, religion and sexual orientation ARE different from setting an age limit to enter an eating establishment.

This eating establishment did not dscriminate for sex, race, religion or sexual orientation. They are setting an age limit to enter their eatery. This is like setting a height limit on riding a roller coaster of amusement park ride.

You are making an argument using apples and oranges. It doesn't work.

A 6 year old is a minor in the care of an adult.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You are talking about two completely different age groups. Now if that grown man has mental disabilities, people would not find it so odd.

Now are we going to ban them too?

Children don't have the same emotional and social intelligence as adults. Many adults don't for that matter. So if they had the capabilities to control themselves, they would come out of the womb behaving like adults.

When I go out in public, I get annoyed far more by adults then children. I don't support anything that suddenly makes children second rate citizens and less valued because people simply don't like their volume.

But I have adults who should know better, who walk side by side so you have no room on teh sidewalk, who constantly text and chatter on their cell phones, who stop in the middle of the aisle without thinking who is standing behind them.
How about the adult who thinks that they are the only person in the restaurant and hogs the poor waiter by sending a steak back 4 times till it is perfect?
I think seniors should be eliminated too because they hold tables too long and their walkers take up too much room.
Lets get rid of the family gathering because they are talking too loud and laughing too much.
We also need to get rid of the people who swear, I really don't like that. And the guy with teh plumbers crack because his gut is too big to hold his pants up.
We need to eliminate the parties of people who split a check five ways and all pay with credit cards so we don't see the waiter for 20 minutes.
And lets eliminate the guy who insists on talking to the waiter he just met for the first time and wants to tell his lifestory, and keep the waiter from waiting on everyone else.
Lets eliminate the person who talks too loudly about inappropriate subjects.
All the people who clap when someone drops something and breaks it.
We also need to elminate those loud and annoying birthday songs that we make the poor wait staff do. I also think engagements shouldn't be in a restaurant ever, don't stop the entire restaurant for your life event, leave it at home.

Need I go on about the oh so behaved and civilized adults?

Originally posted by amaster
reply to post by NuroSlam

 

I am all for this. I have two young and wild children, ages 5 and 2, and I’ll be damned if they are going to act up and disturb someone else at a restaurant. But then again I still believe in discipline for children. I still believe in wearing slacks and a nice shirt and maybe even a coat when dinning out instead of shorts, a tank top and flip flops. I believe you should take your hat off when inside and you should never wear it to the table. I believe in manors and opening doors for ladies and pulling out their chairs. I believe that if you go to a fine dining establishment you should expect a fine dining atmosphere, and not someone’s unruly children running a muck. If that’s how you intend to raise your children then please, Applebee’s has a 20 minute wait.

YES!

Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
For those people that threw down the race card on this...shame on you. Read this. en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah, I agree. That race argument is pretty much the slippery slope fallacy. There's absolutely no relevant or cohesive link between a restaurant prohibiting children of a certain age from entering their business and the same establishment restricting entry to people on the grounds of race, gender or sexuality. It's a specious connection.

That's like saying that the government shouldn't legally prohibit children from driving or smoking cigarettes, because they could start making it illegal for black people to do so as well !

The thing I don't like about this is that it discriminates against the families with children who can sit quietly and behave. When I was a kid I was really quiet, and could sit by myself playing with puzzles or blocks for hours.

Why should people with children like that not be able to go and have a good time? I suppose they can always go to a different restaurant, but say that restaurant has very good food, then it really stinks for them.

Civil Rights Act of 1964,

Title II, outlawed discrimination in restaurants.

A Restaurant owner can't ban all children under 6.

He can say bye bye to his restaurant. I actually support what he's doing and think it should be a National Law....

But lawyers are going to have a field day with him.

Originally posted by Xaberz
The thing I don't like about this is that it discriminates against the families with children who can sit quietly and behave. When I was a kid I was really quiet, and could sit by myself playing with puzzles or blocks for hours.

Why should people with children like that not be able to go and have a good time? I suppose they can always go to a different restaurant, but say that restaurant has very good food, then it really stinks for them.

Is this place the only restaurant in town? I seriously doubt children 6 and under are food critics and are going to judge a place by how good the food is.

Everyone does not owe everyone - - everything.