Pennsylvania Restaurant Bans Children Under 6

Originally posted by Adyta
I like how you highlighted part of my post in an effort to make me look stupid. Allow me to do the same.

Originally posted by jonibelle
People causing disturbances are often asked to leave.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

If a kid is causing a disturbance, ask the parents and child to leave. Don't ban the entire age group.

edit on 7/11/2011 by Adyta because: (no reason given)

Easily offended much? I wasn't trying to make you look stupid.
Noisy children is a foreseen nuisance.
Immature adults? Not so much.....

As someone who has worked in restaurants for many years, I'd say this is a great idea.

Last placed I worked, when we put together the menu, we purposely didn't add any childrens menu/dishes as we didn't want any kids. It was a conscious business decision that the owners and I made together and it worked out fantastic.

We were the busiest place in the downtown core for a long while and we rarely saw kids.

And before the comments come, I am a father, worked in family restaurants and have seen the atrocious behaviour of kids allowed by parents. A very small percentage of parents control their kids while dining out.

reply to post by GAOTU789


Shows what blatant and relentless capatalists you are...shame! Now that said, that ganpa over there is giving me the creeps - can we get rid of him too? Please? Don't know what any of that means, but yeah, it's a free country (ohhh supposedly) and you should be able to enforce your rules...it's like giving states their due...let's decentralize a bit and let US vote on what we care about...STATES, like businesses, should be given the opportuinity to make decisions for themselves...where did that come from? Yea for me!

CJ

reply to post by jonibelle


Noisy children are NOT a foreseen nuisance. I went out to eat the other day with my sister and niece, and IMMEDIATELY upon sitting down, I heard some guy say to his wife "Here come the tantrums"... and he was wrong. She sat quietly, smiled, and ate without issue. She's 1 year old.

Originally posted by Adyta
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

But kick the kids out, because they *sometimes* cry and throw tantrums, as children do.

Going out in public has it's downsides... if you can't deal with that, I suggest you don't go out in public.

yes going out in public has it's downsides. if your kids can't behave, don't take them out until they can learn to behave. respect others, something quite a lot of parents seem to forget. it is a parents choice to have kids, you made the choice deal with it. if your kids can't behave in public, then don't take them out in public, really simple.

you mention kicking out someone who has a visible catheter bag. that is NOT the same thing. a person can't help needing one, but in all honesty normally it wouldn't be visible as most people would be embarrassed that anyone could see it. on the other hand a good parent CAN stop misbehavior, they just need the will to do it. but sadly a lot of parents out there don't care what miserable brats they have and only care about themselves.

reply to post by NuroSlam


It's that kind of logic that let the Jim Crow era laws exist for so long. All I'm saying is that I can understand where you're coming from, but the reality of it is pretty dark.

reply to post by Laokin


"This is just as much a problem with the restaurant as it is with the parents. They should remove them from the venue and deny service. It's completely justifiable if your kids are screwing up other peoples meals and/or damaging and causing danger to the people in the work place.

Derp. They restaurant allowed it to happen."


The reason a restaurant doesn't remove them during the incident is probably because they would be percieved as the "bad guy" by the other customers, and they don't want to lose more patrons in the process...

Most restaurants don't intervene unless its absolutely necessary for that reason, unless they are responding to a customer complaint,... or the owner is a tyrant...

reply to post by nunya13


Think thats pushing it a little, Sandals beach resorts dont allow children either, they (from my understanding) dont have an anti-gay rule. (thats the only bit related to your post)

I have a child, he wouldnt be allowed in this restraunt, i am a business owner too... i understand his reasoning, if he doesnt want to allow young children in his establishment i see no problem.

in the uk if you are pub that serves lunch you dont have to allow children in infact alot of places dont, i feel he is entitled.

Sometimes i go places and a screeming child annoys me, i know he/she cant help themselves so i blame the parents, people may frown on that scenario but its like your responsability to not take your child to a public place if they cant either sit quietly or behave, im not saying family orientated restraunts and play places of anything like that, just if you take you child to a restraunt/cinema/theatre/ museam/ gallery/ science centre and they cant behave, shouting (excessivley) crying (due to being spoiled) etc. and people request you to leave that is your fault, and you should not feel hard done to as you are responisble for ruining other peoples day and that is not justified.

just my thoughts though

Originally posted by Adyta
reply to post by jonibelle

 

Noisy children are NOT a foreseen nuisance. I went out to eat the other day with my sister and niece, and IMMEDIATELY upon sitting down, I heard some guy say to his wife "Here come the tantrums"... and he was wrong. She sat quietly, smiled, and ate without issue. She's 1 year old.

It's not? Then why has this owner has banned children?
Sometimes kids misbehave and sometimes they don't. If he doesn't want to take the chance of a kid acting out in his restaurant it's completely up to him.

Going out to eat is not a necessity, and should you choose to eat out you must follow the rules. Take your children elsewhere if you think this rule is unfair. There a countless places that would love [their] business.

reply to post by Adyta


wonderful! you happened to have seen what we call "an exception to the rule". the rule of course, being that children are loud, and energetic, and at times quite unruly. noisy kids are absolutely a "foreseen nuisance". for every 1 child i've seen behave at a restaurant, there are probably 10 that act up. but of course that's only my personal observations and opinions

i cant seem to stress enough how often i see kids misbehaving in restaurants. its so rare that i see small children behaving themselves. i would definitely want to have a "child free" place to go and enjoy a quiet dinner with my family or friends!

and for those people who seem to think that this could cause him to lose business, just look at the replies in this thread alone! plenty of people here think this is a good idea and would love to dine in an atmosphere free of small children. i think his business will be fine

What if we turned this around and decided that it was "unfair" for adults to only drink or be in adult situations sometimes? How about even in children friendly places? What if someone wanted to watch topless dancers at McDonald's? But couldn't because of all the "kids"?

Why isn't there a wine list at Burger King or a stripper pole next to the play area? How is that not discrimination?

We can turn this anyway we want and make everyone seem like a victim, all that we can say for a fact is that there are more children that act up then not, and if a private business man wants to make this his rule, then he should have the right, and so should those that agree. Now if someone is unhappy with it, they dont have to eat there.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by Adyta


This is true. It does not infringe upon the rights of the owners to ask they not come. Simply don't go to that establishment.

CJ

Originally posted by jonibelle
It's not? Then why has this owner has banned children?
Sometimes kids misbehave and sometimes they don't. If he doesn't want to take the chance of a kid acting out in his restaurant it's completely up to him.

Going out to eat is not a necessity, and should you choose to eat out you must follow the rules. Take your children elsewhere if you think this rule is unfair. There a countless places that would love [their] business.

Why did owners ban blacks or Jews from entering their restaurants? Because they didn't like them. Now, it's against the law (Civil Rights Act of 1964) to refuse service to someone because of their race, color, religion, or national origin. Children aren't "protected", but how is this ANY different? There are people out there that will tell you black people are a "foreseeable nuisance". To say you can foresee anything is laughable.

reply to post by devilishlyangelic23


It's not an exception to the rule. Kids getting unruly IS the exception to the rule. People that claim they see unruly kids everywhere are generally the people that go out in public SEARCHING for such behavior. Next time you go out, instead of counting the unruly kids (if any), count the kids that are sitting there quietly and politely.

reply to post by Adyta


I was having dinner in a popular steakhouse in my neighborhood where they have old whiskey barrels full of dry roasted peanuts spaced around the dining area. They have a large scoop in them for customers to scoop some out for snacks at no charge.
That night there was a woman at a table near me that was obviously done eating when we were seated at our table (after waiting 20 minutes for an open table). She was sitting at an empty booth,,,table covered with empty dishes and half full sodas, blabbing loudly on her cellphone.
I was kinda upset that we had waited so long for a table while she sat there and Blabbed on her cell and then I noticed her two kids. They were standing at the peanut barrel while she watched them scoop handfuls of peanuts up into their mouths, suck the salt off, and spit the peanuts back into the barrel.
She absolutely saw what they were doing and did nothing about it while still loudly blabbing on her cell.
We got up and left. It was disgusting. Some people think that they and their kids are all that matters.

Control kids people or let them control you.

As a mother of 6 children, I personally have no problem with this. I have seen many times where parents don't take their children out when they should. When a child is screaming, yelling, up and running about, it's annoying. My children don't act in that manner, I sure don't want to listen to someone else's child act like that. I have been complimented by so many patrons, stopping by my table to tell me how much the appreciated how well my children behaved. A few even confessed when we walked in and were seated near their table, they thought "oh man, look at all those kids, there goes dinner." From the time my children are seated at a table they were taught how to act, be it home or out to eat. And if I happened to have an infant who got fussy, right out the door I would go. Respect to others goes a long way.

Personally had situations where I had a night out with out the kids and had to endure some one else's kid(s) who were out of control. Talk about ruining a nice dinner.

reply to post by Adyta


i do, all the time. i enjoy people watching, and i see so many misbehaving children that im always shocked and highly impressed when i see young children with manners. perhaps you're lucky enough to live in an area that has more responsible parents or something. because i hardly ever see children that have good manners and know how to behave properly in public.

Your arguments are so flawed it's beginning to be comical.

1. It's his private property - So I guess you would have no problem if the owner sat down next to you and started masturbating? After all, it is HIS private property, he can "do what he wants".

2. Kids are ALL unruly - Anyone can be unruly and annoying, so why are you singling out a specific group? Why not just say "Black people are criminals and Mexicans are border jumpers"?

3. Just don't go to this restaurant - You fail to see my point. I am not arguing this because I wanna take kids to this place... I'm saying it is BLATANT discrimination no different that if he was to say no blacks, cripples, or Asians.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
reply to post by NuroSlam

 

It's that kind of logic that let the Jim Crow era laws exist for so long. All I'm saying is that I can understand where you're coming from, but the reality of it is pretty dark.

Discrimination laws should ONLY apply to government, discrimination leads to as many opportunities and it gets in the way of in the private sector.

The jim crow laws were government enforced laws, and thats the rub, government has no right to interfere with business unless that business is actually causing harm and damage to another's life, liberty or property. If government had every actually did its job at protecting the individuals life liberty and property instead of the collective, slavery would have ended in the south as it had in the north. Slavery was no longer productive with the introduction of the cotton gin and was a dead issue. Since Lincoln's stated goal was to preserve the union and later changed to free the blacks in the southern controlled territories, it was far more damaging then just allowing it to die like it was doing all over the rest of the world, and led to the the jim crow laws to begin with.

If i want to be an idiot and deign service to an entire class of people, that should be my right, and I would end up out of business for being an idiot. But to insist that I don't have the right to decide how my property is used is in short communism/socialism/fascism

Originally posted by Adyta

Originally posted by jonibelle
It's not? Then why has this owner has banned children?
Sometimes kids misbehave and sometimes they don't. If he doesn't want to take the chance of a kid acting out in his restaurant it's completely up to him.

Going out to eat is not a necessity, and should you choose to eat out you must follow the rules. Take your children elsewhere if you think this rule is unfair. There a countless places that would love [their] business.

Why did owners ban blacks or Jews from entering their restaurants? Because they didn't like them. Now, it's against the law (Civil Rights Act of 1964) to refuse service to someone because of their race, color, religion, or national origin. Children aren't "protected", but how is this ANY different? There are people out there that will tell you black people are a "foreseeable nuisance". To say you can foresee anything is laughable.

reply to post by devilishlyangelic23

 

It's not an exception to the rule. Kids getting unruly IS the exception to the rule. People that claim they see unruly kids everywhere are generally the people that go out in public SEARCHING for such behavior. Next time you go out, instead of counting the unruly kids (if any), count the kids that are sitting there quietly and politely.

Kids play up and when you've paid to eat a romantic meal with your wife/gf/both you don't want it disturbed by the kids playing up next to you. Or what about the parent that brings there kids to a movie they shouldn;t be watching and the kids starts crying You paid for a ticket. you deserve to eat your meal in peace or be able to watch that movie and actually hear. I think you making a bigger deal out of this then is needed. kids are not a race.

reply to post by Adyta


as rare as that would be, to ask people to leave by the mgmt, it is not a good biz practice.

no rest owner or mgr wants to do that as they would be the ones loosing.

in high end places, they would have private rooms, i always asked reservations if they had young kids so as to have a heads up. it is not discriminatory at all, it is in the benefit of all involved, from the kitchen to the other patrons and especially the kids and parents.


(some of my rests were reservation only)

besides, most places would have to move tables to accommodate a 6 top and if they don't know that 4 are kids then the other 2 tops will be affected.

err..walk-ins are obvious.

if they knew before hand, the dinning room would be set up for max comfort for all.

restaurants are more complicated than anyone thinks. this guy weighed the fact that kids under 6, DON"T order their own meal and usually eat off mom and dads plate or the kids split a dinner. (split plate charge, pisses them off) lol.

seats cost money and unless you have an unlimited flow of people going by, like truck stops, stuckey's, HJ, you need return customer biz.


i could get more involved in that side of the biz but he has the right to not accept children under 6.


hell, i've been places with dress codes! i've been surprised and had to wear a house jacket and tie! no biggie, at least they had that option and i got to spend my money and not look out of place.

private clubs are tough, even though you pay big bucks there are things you can't do, kids, dress codes, reservations, on time, etc.

actually worse than a regular restaurant.



"no shirt no shoes no service" ring a bell?