The Coming War With China: Evidence!

reply to post by Ryanp5555


There is no doubt China has these issues but unlike the USA they choose identify their problems and try to solve it. If anybody here bothered to look at China's 12th, 5 year plan, some of the things they would like to tackle are the income disparities, energy issues, lowering growth expectations (so that it isn't artificial) and so on, so forth. Yes, we all know there are 'humanitarian' issues that need to be worked out but the CCP obviously acknowledged that this is what they want and are open about it.

But this thread is still about a possible WW3 with China and Russia as aggressors, which I still believe isn't going to happen. Like MANY have already stated in this thread, China and Russia can't take on the whole world, nor do they want to, it doesn't serve any purpose because the next world war could leave the earth WASTED. Chinese may be loud, frugal, over-calculating, book worms, bad drivers, make fake products, and in some cases, communist but the Chinese are not stupid.

In pure militaristic terms, China will easily initially defeat the United States and invade it. Also, in pure technological and weaponry terms, China will be at least equal. All the info that is stated to the contrary by the US think tanks, media, government, and military are just the typical US lies and propaganda.

As far as the American people being able to defend against this - they cannot. They would be quickly overwhelmed by the ground invasion.

However, there is a very special ace that the US holds in any such war. All of this would really just be a big show for the military industrial complex and the New World Order that wants population reduction.

At the most opportune moment, HAARP and scalar technology, like Project Blue Beam, would be used, likely by both sides (USA and Russia/China). This would be the actual objective and agenda of any such "war". The allowance of a final martial law police state within the North American Union "free trade zone".

The Chinese and Russian troops would eventually be cut off by the new continental US inland sea ports of NAFTA. And then, logistically, they would eventually have no choice but to leave the US.

Did nobody actually read what I said. I had actual news about this. You guys are too busy bickering with your own egos to recognize news when it hits you on your forehead.

I think this retired old General was just sabre rattling. Im not sure about the accuracy of these figures but it reminds me of some cold war data. Nato always made themselves look to have much less than they actually had.. If the US is still doing this.. then you dont have a thing in the world to worry about...

Country United States of America / China

CURRENT GFP RANK 1 3


Total Population 313,232,044 1,336,718,015
Military Manpower Available 145,212,012 749,610,775
Fit for Military Service 120,022,084 618,588,627
Reaching Military Age Yearly 4,217,412 19,538,534
Active Military Personnel 1,477,896 2,285,000
Active Military Reserves 1,458,500 800,000
Total Aircraft 18,234 4,092
Total Land-Based Weapons 56,269 22,795
Total Naval Units 2,384 562
Towed Artillery 2,163 2,950
Merchant Marine Strength 418 2,010
Major Ports and Terminals 21 8
Aircraft Carriers 11 0
Destroyers 59 26
Frigates 30 58
Submarines 75 55
Patrol Coastal Craft 12 937
Mine Warfare Craft 14 391
Amphibious Operations Craft 30 544
Defense Budget / Expenditure $692,000,000,000 $100,000,000,000
Foreign Reserves $150,000,000,000 $2,662,000,000,000
Purchasing Power $14,660,000,000,000 $10,090,000,000,000
Oil Production 9,056,000 bbl 3,991,000 bbl
Oil Consumption 18,690,000 bbl 8,200,000 bbl
Proven Oil Reserves 19,120,000,000 bbl 20,350,000,000 bbl
Total Labor Force 154,900,000 780,000,000
Roadway Coverage 6,506,204 km 3,860,800 km
Railway Coverage 226,427 km 86,000 km
Waterway Coverage 41,009 km 110,000 km
Coastline Coverage 19,924 km 14,500 km
Major Serviceable Airports 15,097 502
Square Land Area 9,826,675 km 9,596,961 km

Source

In just about every case, the US vastly outnumbers China in its heavy equipment. Id say its possible that China does have some new gen stealth tech, but this doesn't mean the US doesn't have it, or didn't have it 20 years ago.. it just may be something that is not detectable fullstop with any tech.

The missile of LA and the Submarine in the south china sea may have just been China bragging that they have it too.

Their equipment that out numbers the US appears to be totally defensive naval. They don't even have a single air craft carrier and they have 14,000 less aircraft than the US.

Its also rumored as we all know that the US has been developing Race Specific Bio weapons, where there is smoke there is fire so wouldn't surprise me. Unless China has this, i cant see any value in releasing a killer disease, these things travel the world in a few hours and would probably be much more dangerous to over populated countries like China and India. If a bio first strike was actually made on the US, i expect that it would be using tech sold by the US and probably traceable in the same way that nuclear weapons are traceable.

reply to post by Gravity215


All fair, but if the Chinese general is to be believed (and i too agree its most likely sabre rattling), then the Chinese did not invest in carrier group doctrine and production in order to concentrate specifically on race specific bio-warfare.

And they have also recently announced that they have developed and tested a carrier killer missile.

Imagine the damage caused by one well placed missile into a carrier group? China spends a fraction on R+D compared to the US, and with one missile makes their carrier groups obsolete. Im sure thats an exaggeration, but it makes you think. So does a caucasian targetting supervirus.

Click here for more information.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by hawkiye


lol. This is laughable. China and Russian military combined is dwarfed in comparison to United States spending and technology. My opinion, bring it on!.


Proof that China and Russia have no chance against a dominant and powerful US military.
www.rickety.us...

reply to post by Gravity215


I just added a graph showing the defense spending between countries. I agree with you. Nothing to worry about.

www.rickety.us...

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

is amazing how completely hoodwinked you are about China's economy.

No, China does not heavily regulate their industry, they have no labor laws, no environmental laws. China's communist style of capitalism is the closest thing to a free market that exists, except there in no freedom at all when the policies are put into place.

China has very few regulations in their industry. If I said Chinese industry was highly regulated, I was mistaken. But, China has heavy regulations in their economy overall. Like the US economy it rests on a foundation of a monopoly-controlled banking system. Its fairly standard to have your business owned 51% by the Chinese if you want to start an independent corporation in China. Certainly there is very little free-market economics going on in China. But, their overall economic policies have become comparatively much much more friendly and much more free-market over the past few decades.

My point was not to say the Chinese have very little regulations. My point was that regulations and economic control vastly loosened up over the past few decades. Unsurprisingly and predictably, their economy has grown as a result.

The most free-market place is Hong Kong.

Yep, there you got is, the most free market economy is communism.

And the free market people in the U.S. are eager to bring that communist form of capitalism here in the U.S., and take away our rights and makes us slaves, just like the workers in China.

I don't see how Hong Kong is communist. Hong Kong is a mostly independent political system outside of the Chinese system as a result of being owned by Britain up until the 1990's. Please tell me what Communist systems are in place in Hong Kong.

You just keep drinking that free market cool aid, and see what it gets you.

All I did was read all the studies and look at the results. Anyone can look at the most free-market states and see that those are the states where the very poorest people among everyone else fare the best from a financial standpoint. And if they are more polluted than other places, I'd like to see any evidence of that. So my advice to you is to take a careful look at economics studies as they come out. You'll be a free market proponent within five years.

Originally posted by kellynap43
reply to post by hawkiye

 

lol. This is laughable. China and Russian military combined is dwarfed in comparison to United States spending and technology. My opinion, bring it on!.


Proof that China and Russia have no chance against a dominant and powerful US military.
www.rickety.us...

We spend a trillion a year on military. Half of that is for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The other half maintains troops and bases in over 135 countries. We are not spending more then China on R&D and China does not just open thier books for us to see so what they spend is speculation. The idea that because we go into trillions of debt for our military budget we must be more advanced is what is laughable. Also China steals all our R&D any-ways so even if we were spending more they still trump us. Up until a few months ago we were borrowing most of our military budget from China too.

This thread is a testament to the programming by media sound bytes and government BS. Over and over again I hear how invincible we are while a politicians sell us out give away our hard earned technology and invite the enemy to set up shop on our own soil. We are just like Rome oh who can take us out they were all believing Rome was invincible till the hoards were busting through thier gates. I bet they were saying the same things I hear on this thread... No on can beat the legions they would be fools to try... What a sad commentary...

China has been selling quite a few missiles to countrys on the MTCR list. (www.borntowatch.com...).
If this little Middle East drama escalates, the mighty US, might be without a whole fleet. The US could be at war soon in many locations. Wont be many left defending the home soil.
That Nobel Peace winning President of yours has done nothing but warmonger and spend.

This all sounds just a little to much like Stalin saying the Nazis will never invade my Russia. He wasnt prepared.

I hope its all wrong and all just silly, but I have a sneaky!

reply to post by hawkiye


US does not spend more on R&D? I just proved that they do. Yours is but yet a sad and useless statement with no backing. I will agree that we do give to many secrets away, thanks to Bill Clinton giving secrets to China and Barrack Obama disarming many of our nuclear weapons. However, even with that, are military is decades ahead of any current technology that civilians have. Obviously you have no concept of the current military so I will enlighten. Take all technology away; take every weapon and system ever used. The men and women of the armed forces are the most educated, most highly trained soldiers in the current global environment. Do a search on Seal Team 6, Army Rangers, watch a YouTube video or Discovery channel and see what type of training they have to endure. Believe it, there is no known military to go through such extensive and grueling conditions.
As far as your example with Rome. This is like comparing apples to DVDs. Not even the same field. Rome philosophy was to command and conquer. United States is to survive in a situation such as this. Yamamoto of Japan in WWII was recorded saying (although disputed) that he would not invade mainland US, due to a rifle behind every blade of grass. Although he may/may not have said this, it is true. Think of how many Americans own firearms, rifles, etc. Any attack would be pointless.
Over examples such as location, industry, technology, weaponry, philosophies, mentalities, intelligence agencies such as CIA, NSA, FBI, tactics, etc could be discussed, but would be a waste of my time. Go back to the books and have a great one!

reply to post by civilchallenger


The current oligarchy banking system of the U.S. is a result of three decades of efforts to create a free market economy. It is a good example of how we have moved closer to communism.

The slave wage workers of China are not better off than the poor people in the U.S., and they are fairing far worse in Hong Kong.

China's recent rise is a short term thing, and if they want to develop sustained growth, then they are going to have to regulate their business, apply not only environmental standards, but labor standards, and push for increases in wages. Essentially, break free of the free market scam, and do the right thing, establish a fair set of rules and evenly enforce them. They are smart enough to see this. I wish them luck in their endeavors.

China also recognizes that their economic rise is due to a deal with the devil, that devil being the free market advocates of the ICs. China's rise in economic power has come from cheating the middle class of the U.S., through their pact with the ICs, by cooperating with those ICs. This development of the current situation with global trade has been nothing but a pyramid scheme, where those at the top don't care, as long as they get what they want. What they don't realize is that their gains are only temporary.

The success of this global scam has required fooling enough of the people into buying the whole free market scam, long enough to pull it off. They finally pulled that off with Reagan, who was able to sell the whole scam to the U.S. public. However, the whole scam is finally falling apart. More and more people are waking up and realizing what total BS the whole free market gig has been.

If we were smart, and got our act together, what we should start fighting is a war with the IC's, or more accurately, the global bankers who are cheating everyone at every turn. It is the global bankers who are the real bad guys these days.

reply to post by poet1b

The current oligarchy banking system of the U.S. is a result of three decades of efforts to create a free market economy. It is a good example of how we have moved closer to communism.

This is one of the most absurd statements I have ever heard. I think your heart is in the right place and yes we have moved closer to communism however I am at a loss as to how you can say this was done while trying to create a free market. It makes no sense. Communism and free markets are diametrically opposed.

The current banking system was created in 1913 with the federal reserve act and thus ending the free market in banking and granting a monopoly to the federal Reserve banking cartel on our money system. How anyone can say that was part of creating a free market is amazing. That was in fact a major step in killing the free market. Systematic and subsequent government regulations continued to kill the free market and impose monopolies or near monopolies for politically connected corporations thus effectively stamping out free and fair competition.

You seem to be suffering from the Marxists propaganda that the free market is the cause when it is the exact opposite. Modern Marxist's point to current politically connected corporations who have been given free reign by thier political cronies (who look the other way when they harm people) to have a monopoly on their market because free and fair competition has been regulated out of business by these politicians and call that free market capitalism when it is anything but.

Explain to me how politically connected corporations granted monopoly's on thier respective markets by government regulation is a free market? I'd love hear it because that is what we have today and it is fascism/communism and has nothing to do with the free markets! Without such government protectionism the "to big to fails" would have gone out of business decades ago. Where again is the free market? To act like there was a free market and no government intervention and this led to the current state of things is completely false and ignorant. It is government intervention protecting thier cronies that has led to the current state of things and now people seem to think more it is the solution when it is what created the problems...

reply to post by hawkiye

I am at a loss as to how you can say this was done while trying to create a free market. It makes no sense. Communism and free markets are diametrically opposed.

That is the con, to make you believe they are opposed, when in tact they are the same, in the all ways I have pointed out earlier, and more.

The current banking system was created in 1913 with the federal reserve act and thus ending the free market in banking and granting a monopoly to the federal Reserve banking cartel on our money system.

First of all, the fed res act was pushed by the very people who are the idealistic predecessors to those who currently preach free market economics. The fed res was actually created to stabilize the money supply, because the local controlled banks were to easy to control. Those advocating free markets wanted a fed res so they could do nationally what they were doing so well locally. Notice how Gingriches repeal of Glass-Steagal has lead to a centralization of the banks.

You seem to be suffering from the Marxists propaganda that the free market is the cause when it is the exact opposite. Modern Marxist's point to current politically connected corporations who have been given free reign by thier political cronies (who look the other way when they harm people) to have a monopoly on their market because free and fair competition has been regulated out of business by these politicians and call that free market capitalism when it is anything but.

Close, the first part you got right. What you don't see is that without federal regulations, it is the corporations who eliminate competition, through their wealth and power, and higher level of control over local politicians. The megacorps have destroyed small businesses through corrupt business practices, and us workers wind up financing their corruption by electing politicians preaching the free market scam. While smaller businesses must actually create wealth, the big corporations use the banking and finance system to do it all on borrowed money, and if it all collapses, leave the suckers with the debt.

Corporations are granted monopolies not by government regulations, but by eliminating government regulations that prevent them from pulling their scams.

What we have today is fascist communism, because the con of the free market gimmick has allowed fascism/communism to take over. The bailouts were all part of the scam. Can't you see that all the efforts to create this free market has only lead to greater and greater banker control of our economy?

Just because they call it a free market, doesn't make it a free market, this is just false advertising.. There is no such thing, it is unrealistic idealism, just like communism.

reply to post by poet1b

That is the con, [speaking of communism vs free market] to make you believe they are opposed, when in tact they are the same, in the all ways I have pointed out earlier, and more.

Another absurd statement. It is a fact communism advocates mandated pooling of resources production and profits etc. usually controlled by a central body and at the point of a gun. Where as a free market abhors government intervention and every man is free to keep the fruits of their labors and use as they see fit as long as they are not harming others. One steals the fruits of others labor at threat of harm while one practices freedom. To believe otherwise is the height of ignorance.

First of all, the fed res act was pushed by the very people who are the idealistic predecessors to those who currently preach free market economics. The fed res was actually created to stabilize the money supply, because the local controlled banks were to easy to control.

You need to study some history my friend. First of all you would be hard pressed to find a true free market advocate who pushed for the federal reserve act. I'd love to see some quotes. They had to do it on Christmas break when most congressmen were at home with their families to get it through. You might find some propagandists who claimed it would promote the free market but any fool could see a monopoly on any part of the market is diametrically opposed to FREE markets.

The federal reserve did anything but stabilize the money. We have had the worst depressions and recession in history since its creation. Yeah it was sold as our saviour by it propagandists but that was a lie! The local banks were controlled by the free market if they were corrupt they went out of business and the problem was local and not national. Yes there were some problems but they were extremely minor affairs compared to the problems we have had since the Federal Reserve was given its monopoly.

Those advocating free markets wanted a fed res so they could do nationally what they were doing so well locally. Notice how Gingriches repeal of Glass-Steagal has lead to a centralization of the banks.

What are you talking about we have had a central bank since 1913. Those advocating a free market were opposed to a central bank. Again lets see some historical references? Notice how those who wanted a monopoly nationally needed government intervention to make it happen!!! The free market prevented national monopolies. It was only with government intervention and killing of the free markets that such monopolies like the federal reserve and other politically connected corporations were made possible. You are a victim of propaganda trying to blame the free markets.

Repealing of Glass-Steagal was not an advocation of free markets despite Newt fascist Gingriches claims that it was. It was just a manipulation of the highly regulated system to favor some politically connected cronies period. But of course the Marxists point to that and say see free markets are evil... Sigh! There was no repeal of regulation that killed free and fair competition for these government protected monstrosities.

Close, the first part you got right. What you don't see is that without federal regulations, it is the corporations who eliminate competition, through their wealth and power, and higher level of control over local politicians.

It is always amazing to me when someone repeats this non-sense. You just agreed above that local entities wanted to do nationally what they were doing locally with the federal reserve act? How is it without the federal reserve act (regulation) they we not able to to do it since as you claim there was no regulation preventing it??? It is because free and fair competition prevented them!!! People took their money where they were treated honestly and fairly. Even those local entities that aspired to have a national monopoly were forced to deal fairly with people or go out of business! Don't you see you have it backwards? It is precisely this regulation that eliminates their competition and allows them to ascend to a national monopoly and stop having to treat people fairly since they are the only game in town.

History you are referencing proves it by the very fact they needed government intervention to ascend to a national monopoly with the federal reserve act you claim they could do if there was no regulation. There was no regulation and they could not ascend to a national monopoly. Any time we have had a central bank it was because of government intervention not because of free markets where they had natural competition. Every big corporation that has a monopoly got there the same way they have benefited by government regulation while their competition was put out of business by it killing the free market. Eas of some regulation in the current fascist system is not free markets it is some political faction doing thier benefactors a favor period. There is no free market. if there was I should be able to start and bank and if people want to keep money with me then they should be free to do it. But I can;t do that unless I swear fealty to the Federal reserve bank and use their currency period. Where is the free market??? Please study your history and stop listening to and repeating this Marxists propaganda BS!

reply to post by hawkiye


I have read the history, and what you are writing is nothing but a propagandist version of history. Do your own research, and you will find I am right about everything I say.

The free market can artists claim they are for individual rights, but the only rights they support are the rights of the corporation, and the banking system to screw over the average individual.

Stop listening to the con, and stat paying attention to the results.

It is clear to see that the free market people are communists.

The free market people repealed Glass Steagal, leading to the bankers taking over. This is the historical fact.

They wrote the trade agreements that shipped jobs overseas, and allowed our country to be over ran by illegals.

They are the people we need to fight a war against.

China sound almost exactly the same as the Nazi just before WWII. All this talk of "Living space" and China being considered a lesser country is word-for-word "Hitler-like rhetoric ".

Adolf Hitler was convinced that Nazi Germany was a "have not" power. He adopted the popular idea of Lebensraum (living space) as a justification for German territorial expansion and the seizure of new economic resources.

history.howstuffworks.com...

I wonder where Britain would fall in this WWIII scenario, fighting the Ruskies no doubt.

I fear this war is on the horizon. Perhaps be 2015.

ALS

reply to post by poet1b

I have read the history, and what you are writing is nothing but a propagandist version of history. Do your own research, and you will find I am right about everything I say.

You have done nothing of the kind. You can post no evidence to support you rhetoric. And simply make unsubstantiated claims. Your own words show the fallacy of your thinking. The Federal Reserve had to have government intervention to come about and continue to exist. That is a fact. They had to subvert the free market with government intervention. You refuse to address that fact and then claim i have been conned when that is a matter of recorded history. You are 100% wrong!

I thought maybe you had some sense but were just misled. However it is obvious you are nothing but a blind follower of Marxist BS never having studied any history but just repeating Marxist talking points you read somewhere never having verified the claims... and no sense of logic and reason. I have studied this subject and the history for nearly 30 years...

Just to give you another chance in case I am wrong about you Why didn't the Federal reserve ascend to power during the free market period of the United states from the late 19th century to 1913? if your theory is correct that period is when we had the freest markets in this country../ The Federal reserve never had a chance till the government stepped in at the point of a gun and stole everyones gold and silver and mandated a federal reserve monopoly effectively ending the free market period... According to your logic the federal reserve should have ascended to monetary power during the free market period and it didn't? Why not? Why did it take government intervention if the free market is the alleged cause?

You cannot answer that so your tactic is to avoid it and make more unsubstantiated claims. Prove me wrong!

PS we haven't had free markets since 1913 so just because some modern political hack cloaks themselves in free market rhetoric and advocates one sided foreign trade agreements benefiting thier corporate benefactors does not make them free market people. The Mafia calls themselves business men too but that does not make them any less the murders and thieves they are! This is one of the more ridiculous tenants of your theory.