Is the ET belief the same as the belief in trolls, fairies, goblins, and pixies of the medieval time

Originally posted by xavi1000
No
Belief in trolls, fairies, goblins are not witnessed and documented by millitary pilots ,generals,soldiers,astronauts etc etc ..so you can't compare and make analogy of these.

I think it was a fair assumption by the Op and many people can see the ever growing almost religious fervor of the "belief" in UFOs and ET's. They don't call it the UFO community for nothing!
And whilst the phenomena has been witnessed by military personal and high ranking officials, it is certainly not restricted to them. I don't doubt that millions has been wasted on the never ending search for "ET" funded by the humble tax payer but do not think for one minute they haven't thrown as much money and resources at the occult question of which daemons and fae are closely aligned.
I think the assumption wasn't a great leap and can see many parallels.

cheers

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
It is much more reasonable and logical to believe, without evidence, they are top-secret military technology, although it is quite faulty as that would imply that military scientists have a great deal of knowledge that is unknown to scientists in academia or in the private industry.

military scientists actually do have a plethora of technology unavailable to civilians. Just look at the "stealth" helicopter used by the seals in the Bin Laden operation. It was a stealth chopper that couldn't be heard directly in front or to the sides of the chopper, at any distance, apparently even when grounded only when directly above the target. Thats pretty incredible considering the dBL of a normal helicopter. Thats never been done before and the technology is unavailable to civilians nor the knowledge of it, correct me if im wrong.

Just look at the blackbird, that wasn't even known about for years. I have no doubt in my mind theres tons more where that came from that we have no idea about... the chopper that went down during the operation was blown up on the spot so the technology couldn't be stolen just like any other top secret crafts that go down during military operations, so its obviously unavailable elsewhere.

as for the UFO's being fairytale-esque theres been wayyyy too many credible witnesses to relate it to fantasy characters. Ive never heard if a credible "troll witness", if there ever has been. Although I have heard a story before about a "fairy witness". We've all come to automatically correlate UFO with alien, but just because its unidentified doesn't mean its an alien. I am a believer, however.

nice OP btw

I prefer to make the comparison to Halo or HP Lovecraft, But to Each there own.

if anyone think this vast universe was created for just earth life then sorry you are deluded

Originally posted by adamjagger11
if anyone think this vast universe was created for just earth life then sorry you are deluded

And don't forget blinded! Truthfully, the ETs watching Earth, and watching humanity, are not to intervene in any way not approved from above. They do not like their photo taken, and anything you pick up on a craft or a way station will dissolve upon re-arrival to Earth's atmosphere. The proof is in the pudding. If they were not real, then the Universe is mostly wasted, and that would mean the Creator is an idiot. I don't happen to believe that. There is actually much proof, beginning with the Bible and religious art of the time. I have seen photos scans of most of this art right here in the forum. If it were not real, then millions of people worldwide, including Military personnel, Police Officers, and even Presidents of the United States are involved in a vast conspiracy to perpetrate a lie. Many thousands of photos were doctored, and created with some kind of software we have never seen or heard of. Millions are seeing the same illusions, and experiencing the same hallucinations, and are surely on the same drug. Some links to ponder, for those big egos that thinks humanity is all alone here in this corner of the Galaxy, near this medium grade Star, in orbit with other planets that all show signs of a major disturbance in the distant past.

Spacecraft and Extraterrestrials in the Bible and History

The Nephilim Giants
(Who ever got the idea that a 12 foot Nephlim can breed with a normal human woman, who then can give birth to a Giant baby??)

Sumerian Information of the Annunaki (Sumerian equal to the Genesis Anakim) Erech was founded before 4,000 B.C.

UFO Text Files

Suppressed/secret technology
(A lot of the Technology we have today is back engineered alien technology)

Originally posted by AlienView
reply to post by MasterOfSparkz

 

....Science is an extremely disciplined and defined craft by which the natural physical world is tested and proved, within exacting standards and conditions no less....

Please tell me exactly what you mean by 'the natural physical world'. Can you give a definition of what this is and if you can don't you really mean 'the known' natural physical world. And even an exacting scientific mind such as yours has to admit you can not deny the possibility of and unknown physical world. Much of the physical world now known [nuclear physics for example] and discovered mostly in the 20th Century was hardly, if at all, known in the 18th & 19th Centuries. I say, and call it scientific speculation or speculative philosophy, the 21st Century will open new gates and new dimensions of knowledge and possibly show even you how and maybe why the ET phenomenon.

My friend, I am agreeing with you, not disagreeing with you. One only has to look up the definition of "science" to know what qualifies as a legitimate scientific process. I didn't make up the definition personally, I just used it to determine that this thread was NOT presented on the basis of science.

No, not the "known physical world", but rather the "natural world" (note how this is NOT the supernatural world, or the world of "myth") and all things "physical". "science is the process by which the natural and physical worlds become "known" to humanity, within the confines of the process that is "science".

On last thing, there is, at this time, NO ET phenomenon. There is a UFO phenomenon, an abduction phenomenon and of course there are many paranormal phenomenons, but to this date we really don't know if ET is involved or not. Could be ET (extra terrestrial or temporal), but may not be also. The entirety of the UFO phenomenon may have NOTHING to do with "aliens" from other planets or dimensions. There is a real possibility, and IMO a far more likely possibility, that these hypothetical "craft" may belong to native denizens of the very same environment, that we only share a very small portion of with them. We don't know.

first let me say i see the direction your coming from; (and appologize for this browser not letting me hit enter to break up this text block) though i think sea monsters would be a better analogy (as sea monsters drew some of the same types of anxiety from government, explorers, etc to a poorly understood medium, that being the oceans) but lets not forget, sea monsters where and are very real even today; think (or google) giant squid, giant octopus etc not to mention any other gigantic sea life that may today be extinct --- now as far as your thoughts on space travel i think you are effectively trying to presume you would use a covered wagon to travel between south africa to china (i suppose its vaguely possible over a ridiculous ammount of time but definitely not the best technology for the job) i wont speculate a best case technology for space travel, as those who relied on covered wagon would not speculate space shuttles --- so essentially what im saying is, i wont make a claim as to if your observation is right or wrong, but some of the base arguments don't necesarily apply

Do you people watch history channel? Do you consider their depiction of history as accurate? Well most of the experts they showcase on their alien programs believe in ET's. Infact I've personally seen ufo's and if their being thrown in with fairies and trolls then I am guessing that fairies and trolls exist too.

Originally posted by Seveen
Do you people watch history channel? Do you consider their depiction of history as accurate? Well most of the experts they showcase on their alien programs believe in ET's. Infact I've personally seen ufo's and if their being thrown in with fairies and trolls then I am guessing that fairies and trolls exist too.

The History Channel is a professional entertainment network that caters to those wishing to be entertained. Yes, they have a GREAT deal of excellent and factually based programming. Their shows on UFOs however, are not "history", but rather they are based solely on conjecture. Conjecture is VERY entertaining and helps the History Channel to maintain it's professional status by generating powerful revenue that pays it's bills.

Very few of the "experts" believe in ET. What they do however, is accept the ET Hypothesis as a plausible explanation for issues that they are treating or examining. That does NOT mean that they "believe" ET as if it were a matter of faith or fanaticism. Most great minds will tell you quite frankly, it's utterly unlikely that there is not intelligent life "out there" in abundance, however at this time, we have no proof or regular interactions with ET apart from that which is claimed by the unsubstantiated fringe.

"Astronomers have examined 20 light years of our solar system's radius and can conclude that there is no life on any other star system within 20 light years of us. ". That is not true. I am not sure what scientists claim this, but they do not know that precisely. Theoretical science seems to dictate what may be with the Cosmos, but we here on Earth do not know what lies in the deepest region of our oceans, but we know what is going on 20 light years away?

And this is why some debunkers will never, ever believe in visitation. Because they have the old "secret black projects" theory to fall back on. And of course, since they are secret, and no one knows about them, they cannot be proven wrong. Convenient.

Personally, I don't believe we had or even currently have, technology witnessed in many cases in the past. Yes, there ARE very few actual sightings that are legitimate. They are only more prominent now, with the advent of easily obtainable video, and the hoaxing community being able to take advantage of powerful editing software. The #'s haven't changed. The % of legitimate sightings is probably pretty constant over the decades.

Texas, Illinois, Phoenix, Tehran, JAL, Rendlesham, Roswell... on and on.. there are a slew of excellent cases. Heck, there are many cases where the military reported UFOs, such as Minot, and near other nuclear facilities.

But apparently it's easier for some to just believe that "black projects" are responsible for ALL sightings we can't explain. Seemingly we will fly these super secret aircraft over foreign and enemy soil, risking not only war, but giving away our cutting edge technology. Seemingly our military breaks from the tradition of flying secret aircraft over deserts, in protected airspace, to fly secret and amazingly advanced aircraft over cities.. sometimes for hours.

And the original premise of this thread is ludicrous. I don't even have to explain why.. it's imo, a veiled insult to anyone who claims to have seen UFOs, saying they are willing to believe in fairy tales, than believe in "reality."

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
Although most UFO's have been explained away by either man-made objects (weather balloons, oil rigs, light-houses etc.) or by physical phenomena (celestial bodies, lights shining off birds, auroral phenomena, etc.). Granted, there is a small 5% that cannot be explained by scientific means, that does not imply they are alien controlled space-craft of interstellar origins. It is much more reasonable and logical to believe, without evidence, they are top-secret military technology, although it is quite faulty as that would imply that military scientists have a great deal of knowledge that is unknown to scientists in academia or in the private industry.

Of all millions that have reported to supposedly being abducted by aliens, none have taken the initiative to at the very least a string of evidence? All it would take is one string of DNA and lab testing that is conclusive of
non-earth origins to prove to the masses that we are being visited by aliens.

If you believe they were here to help us build the pyramids and teach us the sciences, then why did they leave or stop making contact right when human civilization began to grow at unimaginable rates? That doesn't add up, I'm afraid.

Astronomers have examined 20 light years of our solar system's radius and can conclude that there is no life on any other star system within 20 light years of us. This implies that the minimum travel time required for an advanced alien civilization to reach us is >20 years. Time dilation only occurs in the traveler's perspective, so tens of thousands of years could pass on their home planet while they are "spying on us", so the coordinators and engineers that bid them farewell would be long dead by the time they return. This does not take into consideration the ENORMOUS energy expenditures and fuel requirement. It takes approximately 5.47 * 10^17 J (547000000000000000 J) to accelerate 1 KG of mass to 99% (0.99c) of the speed of light. With all of Canada's energy expenditure in a year (converted from kilowatt hours to joules), you can only accelerate 3.5 KG of mass to 99% of the speed of light. According to UFO reports, they can range from as small as the size of the 3 combined basketballs and as big as a mile across. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that UFO's that small would carry the fuel requirement needed to accelerate to 99% of the speed of light, and convert it to energy to be used to do work, which contradicts all of our known laws of thermodynamics as during conversion, some energy is lost as heat during every stage of conversion which implies an even greater fuel requirement than was needed with 100% efficient conversion to energy. The larger UFO's (mile across) would require exhausting the resources of entire planets, and other energy needed for "shields" to protect against all forms of space debris that are normally harmless at lower speeds, can collide with the force of a fission nuclear explosion with an object traveling at relativistic speeds. All of that trouble just to spy on us humans?

With no physical evidence of aliens, compounded with the infeasibility of interstellar travel to just spy on humans, along with the millions of abduction reports that heavily correlate with mental health issues, can we not conclude that belief in ET is the modern belief of yesterday's trolls, fairies, goblins, and pixies?

edit on 8-7-2011 by MathematicalPhysicist because: (no reason given)

There are fundamental problems with most of your points, but what stands out as the most obviously bogus assumption is your arguments that scientists have proven no life to exist within at least 20 light years. I'm going to skip past a lot of it to the part where you argue later that we should be able to detect their radio signals.

Humans are moving to directional or guided transmission channels such as electrical cables, optical fibers, narrow-beam microwave and lasers, and conventional radio with non-directional antennas is increasingly reserved for low-power, short-range applications such as cell phones and Wi-Fi networks. These signals are far less detectable from space. Analog television, developed in the mid-twentieth century, contains strong carriers to aid reception and demodulation.

en.wikipedia.org...

The fact is that it is extremely unlikely that a technological civilization would remain detectable by us for very long. We can only detect civilizations in their technological infancy, maybe for 100 to 200 years perhaps less before they move on to more efficient and practical means of wireless communication. What are the odds we happen to be listening during this period?

I'd like to disagree with the Assertion being made that within 20 light years of earth there is no other intelligent life. If there were a civilization equally as advanced as ours, perhaps their space programs would have military relations in a similar fashion as USAF and NASA, seems reasonable. The military does well on our planet to safeguard secrets: if ET's were/are real and they had similar thinking to our military/space programs they may guard any secrets they have.

There are still many unknowns remaining in space exploration, including what's within our solar system as well as without. The absolutist positions held by those scientific minded people who have not observed ALL variables and outcomes are limited and biased and incomplete.

Just because an event hasn't been observed does not mean that it can't happen, it simply means it hasn't been observed. To make an assertion based on incomplete observations or partial data sets is fallacy. Does the phrase Black Swan seem appropriate here?

In response to the OP, I would say that some stories are based on peoples assumptions and some are really delusions, but to lump all accounts of mystical beings, aliens, giants, dwarves as nonsense would be improper. The fact of the matter is that in the origins of these tales or insanity there was some form of influence that took place upon the subjects, there was a communication of the anomaly ( by telling a neighbor or painting something or making a carving) or a recording. And over time we have increased the accuracy and reliability of our recording of events that took/take place. It is only now (past 20 years or so) with this high degree of accuracy in our records that we can begin to form a data set from which valid conclusions can be made. Up to this point, nearly everything is conjecture about intelligent life outside of our own.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

Again, what do you consider intelligent life in this context? What I consider it is intelligent lifeforms capable of interstellar travel, which is the only conclusion that can account for the alleged ET visitation of Earth.

I consider intelligent life intelligent. I consider the idea that we could be completely wrong about every single thing we know about space. I assert that while we continue to find new life and possibilities here on earth that we cant possibly understand the universe like we like to pretend.

Astronomers have observed all sun-life stars (other stars are too hot or cool to sustain life)

So you are now assuming ( or assuming the scientists are correct) the assertion that intelligent life requires earth like environment. This is the pinnacle of assumptions. We may be human, and we may need oxygen, water, and a moderate average temperature to survive. That does not mean other forms of life do. This is apparent on earth (once again).

You stated earlier that we would be able to detect signs of intelligent life. Let me ask you how? Telescopes? Radio imaging? To assume that our technology is superior enough to detect something (for certain) even 2 L.Y. away, meanwhile my cell phone is loosing reception, is a leap of logic in my opinion. I am fairly certain that if there were an equally intelligent (incapable of intergalactic flight) species watching us, they would pick nothing up on our little 22' space craft. And even if they picked up the radio waves they could just assume its a radioactive rock or some thing. Only if they use speculative thinking will they even come close to the conclusion of other life.

It would be near impossible for a civilization capable of interstellar travel to hide all traces of its existence.

Unless according to them, our tech is beyond obsolete as naturally it would have to be.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


No physical evidence?

Look at this video.

www.youtube.com...

Or these
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
Dr. Roger Lier has spent a good part of his life researching alleged alien abductees.

He has found implants in some of the people that can't be easily explained.

They are covered with some sort of chemical coating that causes no rejective or inflamatory responce (unlike normal foriegn bodies). Some have been found with germ sized computer chips in them-many people don't think we could make these today. Los Alamos labs, Univesity of Toronto, New Mexico Tech, University of California, Southwest Labs, York University, and Seal Laboratories have tested these objects and all concluded that these objects have isotopic ratios not found on earth, and appear manufactured.

Isotopes are variants of atoms of a particular chemical element, which have differing numbers of neutrons. (en.wikipedia.org...)
Different planets will have different isotopic ratios. If the isotopic ratios tested by the seven different laboratories above are not from earth, what other explanation can be given to explain them other then alien abduction?

Some implants have emitted radio signals when in the body, and then stopped emitting them when removed. (UFO Hunters: Episode: Abductions)

Thats physical evidence to me.