Is the ET belief the same as the belief in trolls, fairies, goblins, and pixies of the medieval time

Originally posted by yeti101astronomers can't tell you if there's any interstellar capable civs within 20ly. they just don't know, they have no way of knowing. Nobody on earth does. Its wrong to say there is and its wrong to say there isn't. There is only one correct factual answer and that is... we don't know. Do you understand?

I disagree. Astronomers do not have sufficient information to conclude that "intelligent life" does not exist within a 20 ly radius, but they do have sufficient information to conclude that no civilization capable of interstellar travel is within a 20 light year radius of Earth. It is not a written scientific fact, as there are no experiments to come to such a conclusion, but based on the observations of the SETI institute, they can logically come to such a conclusion. Unless, of course, you believe that a civilization capable of interstellar travel can hide all traces of its presence in their solar system? We're not even close to accomplishing interstellar travel, and if a civilization that is at our exact level of knowledge and technology observed our solar system, it wouldn't take long for them to conclude that Earth harbors intelligent life.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


the only way seti could detect a civ is from leaked radio signals or a deliberate high powered signal. If our development is anything to go by advanced civs wont leak any and they might not send signals. . So yes they could easily be undetectable and still exist.

Originally posted by yeti101


the only way seti could detect a civ is from leaked radio signals or a deliberate high powered signal.

Actually, electromagnetic waves (radio waves a form of EM ) are the most common type of physical phenomena throughout the universe. Other forms of EM are deadly and I doubt any civilization capable of interstellar travel would emit gamma, ultraviolet, or just plain light EM waves into space for either communications or practical purposes. Therefore, radio waves are the most effective EM waves for communication for any civilization. If there was any interstellar civilization, radio waves would almost always be inevitable for the reasons I explained above, and SETI could easily intercept them and confirm intelligent lifeforms capable of interstellar travel.

Originally posted by yeti101If our development is anything to go by advanced civs wont leak any and they might not send signals. . So yes they could easily be undetectable and still exist.

Actually, any civilization that listens to any of the radio waves emitted by Earth would easily confirm that Earth harbors intelligent life. In fact, the radio waves emitted by us are so common that an alien civilization could learn a thing or two of human culture and civilization. The ET's wouldn't even need to visit us, if they exist, and can just learn everything about humanity by the radio waves we emit into space. As I explained above, ET's would use some form of radio waves which can be intercepted by SETI, as it is the most efficient EM wave to use for communication

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Originally posted by splittheatom
C is the speed of light in a vacuum. We can make EM waves travel faster than C when travelling through different mediums.

Bob Lazar, is that you?

Light is an EM wave and all EM waves have the same velocity, and though they may vary through different mediums, that is the speed limit of that medium and cannot be exceeded. In a vacuum, light travels uninterrupted by matter at its fastest speed (approximately 3.0 x 10^8 m/s) and its speed cannot be exceeded.

I disagree, just by the fact, that I have seen these space alien starcraft flying about in Earths atmosphere; means that the speed of light barrier can be broken squared by the factor of who knows what!!!

My speculation, is that you can break the speed of light barrier by surrounding your starship with a magnetic force shield. Coupled with a power machine, that is attracted to light photons by the means of black hole dust infused ceramic plate on the bottom or your starship, with a starlight projector focused on some distant star.

Dear friend: Comparing the ET's with Trolls, Fairies and Goblins harken's back to the Dark Ages.


Foofighter's

Erno86

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

and SETI could easily intercept them and confirm intelligent lifeforms capable of interstellar travel.

not if advanced ET are sensible and use the stars focal point to send and receive to each star system. This way only they or others with focal point detectors (which we dont have) would be able to detect these transmissions. Using the focal point of the stars would save them billions of times the energy to transmit signals.

I never said ET wouldn't be able to detect us. But our EM leakage is reducing we put more out 30 years ago than we do today. Soon it will be negligible and probably undetectable except for powerfull radar which we rarely use.

And the argument continues but you are all forgetting one simple fact. You are basing all your observations on your scientific but limited view of the universe . How do you know that the math, science and physics you are dealing with reflects the 'actual' universe. In fact I can imagine a science so far advanced over your perspectives so as to make your perspective by comparison to be that of ants in a closed in ant farm. I exaggerate to make a point. How do you know that your science, physics, and math is showing even a small fraction of the actual cosmos?

I personally have not seen them. but I think that they really exist.
they are the guardians of peace. I do not see relations with other civilizations. may suschestvut other worlds. So they come to us from there. have it all.
Elves - (Alva in Germanic mythology) - rodstvennikigmurov (dwarf), but they can not stand the dungeon, because it was difficult to hide from people. They did not like to fight, because no resistance, but fled from the human race. Alva - the wise men and magicians, but own only good magic, can not cause harm.
They say that somewhere in the ocean is a magic island, where they settled, but there is no way for the people. On this island among the eternally blooming gardens are their castles. Here Alva nobody disturbs them, they feed on fruit, and singing songs never get old.

Originally posted by yeti101not if advanced ET are sensible and use the stars focal point to send and receive to each star system. This way only they or others with focal point detectors (which we dont have) would be able to detect these transmissions. Using the focal point of the stars would save them billions of times the energy to transmit signals.

That only works if both the receiver and the sender are stationary. For beings that are involved in multiple round trips of interstellar travel, that method of communication becomes easily obsolete if they are not using EM waves as the message will almost certainly be diminished by the vacuum of space due to a lack of a medium not to mention the vast resources required to establish it if it is theoretically possible in the first place. Why go through all that trouble instead of using cheap and efficient EM radio waves?

Originally posted by yeti101I never said ET wouldn't be able to detect us. But our EM leakage is reducing we put more out 30 years ago than we do today. Soon it will be negligible and probably undetectable except for powerfull radar which we rarely use.

We are not even close to the technology of keeping all of our radio waves from being emitted into space. Perhaps, we may have reduced the frequency at which it escapes into space. Even then, if an Alien species switched to using an undetectable method of communication, the radio waves they once used can still be detectable and would be picked up. Even if we managed to keep all radio waves from emitting into space, an alien species that is on part with our technology would still be able to pick up these radio waves, despite they may become unreadable.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


EM is not efficient doing it without using the focal point would take billions of times more energy. In any case even if they did do that they would transmit a directed beam to their own star system not ours. They may even use lasers.

We are not even close to the technology of keeping all of our radio waves from being emitted into space.

Frank drake from seti disagrees with you.The amount leaked in future will be too weak in power and will not be detectable from the background noise in space from another star system. We will soon be off the air as far as leakage is concerned.

Originally posted by AlienView
And the argument continues but you are all forgetting one simple fact. You are basing all your observations on your scientific but limited view of the universe . How do you know that the math, science and physics you are dealing with reflects the 'actual' universe. In fact I can imagine a science so far advanced over your perspectives so as to make your perspective by comparison to be that of ants in a closed in ant farm. I exaggerate to make a point. How do you know that your science, physics, and math is showing even a small fraction of the actual cosmos?

Because it has been consistent with all of our observations of the physical world and the universe thus far, so it isn't illogical to assume that our understanding so far is at least quite good though not obviously not complete.

Using your logic, when people claim to have seen UFO's instantaneously accelerating perpendicularly to its position to 5x the speed of light, do we throw away all of our established laws of physics that have not be "broken" for hundreds of years and thousands upon thousands of experimentation to confirm them, into the bin and attempt to start over? Or do we call the legitimacy of the claim into account? If these UFO's are really of extraterrestrial origins, then why aren't scientists attempting to investigate as to why and how they "break" the many established laws of physics? Why is it character of the abductee or observer of the UFO is called into question? Is there a cover-up amongst all scientists by the government to keep it hidden from the general public?

I dont compare it to troll fairies etc..because Ive actually seen one I am now complete in my search ) thats all I will say about that. You can only take my word for it, trust me those that are out at night looking for them, they are not wasting their time!

I said it many times- this date 4th october 2009 sunday night, might get a tatooo )

p.s I didnt see a little star move, or a small ball that may be a ballon, just for the record,

I will leave it there!

Luke

Originally posted by yeti101
EM is not efficient doing it without using the focal point would take billions of times more energy. In any case even if they did do that they would transmit a directed beam to their own star system not ours. They may even use lasers.

EM wave would be the best and most efficient form of communication, as it is the only wave that can travel through the vacuum of space without a medium (matter to propagate). Every other form of communication requires a medium, and I truly doubt that an alien civilization would waste and expend vast amount of resources to establish and maintain that medium, which may or may not have 100% communication efficiency, instead of cheap and efficient radio EM waves. Also, lasers are impractical for any form of communication. Creating lasers already require a vast amount of resources and energies (solid-state laser weapons, for example) to be used to solve real-world problems, and to be used as a form of communication is, quite simply, science-fiction. You can't encode a message into a beam of light.

Originally posted by yeti101Frank drake from seti disagrees with you.The amount leaked in future will be too weak in power and will not be detectable from the background noise in space from another star system. We will soon be off the air as far as leakage is concerned

Have any quotes are articles where he stated that? Even if he and he is accurate data to show for it, that may be explained by the decrease of people using radio-based technology and the advent of the internet and satellite based television which uses microwaves rather than radio waves. However, that does not somehow stop the radio waves that were emitted 30 years ago or the ones leaked from that time until today from being detected by some other civilization.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


I'm assuming that you, and alot of other people, including me, believe that we are living in "caveman days," in terms of achieving interstellar space travel. Just look at the trials and tribulations, of such hero's like Galileo and Leonardo Da Vinci; and you know we will probably have a long road ahead of us in the method of achieving interstellar travel.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


its far more efficeint to fly to the focal point and transmit or if they have a colony in another star system they would have a satellite at the focal point. Lasers would be transmitted through a telescope. Watt for Watt more efficient than EM

yes thats right the way we use satellites has dramatically reduced our leakage. So what about radio waves transmitted years ago? they might have detected them and dont want to reply or they might not have been listening to our star system. They could be transmitting through a device at their focal point all this time and we wouldnt know about it. We're not off the air yet but in future the leakage wont be powerfull enough. we used to have huge military, tv & radio transmitters they're all nearly gone with satellite comms replacing them

Earth itself has become a quieter radio object as more efficient, less powerful systems replace previous sources of radio leakage. For example 20th-century terrestrial television transmitters, which sent a megawatt of radio energy into space, are disappearing as low-power digital, cable and satellite TV take over. “Very soon our Earth will be­come undetectable,” says Prof Drake.

www.google.co.uk...

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

Using your logic, when people claim to have seen UFO's instantaneously accelerating perpendicularly to its position to 5x the speed of light, do we throw away all of our established laws of physics that have not be "broken" for hundreds of years and thousands upon thousands of experimentation to confirm them, into the bin and attempt to start over? Or do we call the legitimacy of the claim into account? If these UFO's are really of extraterrestrial origins, then why aren't scientists attempting to investigate as to why and how they "break" the many established laws of physics? Why is it character of the abductee or observer of the UFO is called into question? Is there a cover-up amongst all scientists by the government to keep it hidden from the general public?

Actually many of us believe just that [a cover-up]. And some of the evidence is from otherwise reputable people and that's not to mention all the recorded [filmed] evidence that has stood up to examination as to its reality [not faked]. And the key words "how they "break" the many established laws of physics?" - that is the point I am trying to make: Until Einstein's theories were proven we had one universe [reality], now we have another. How can you be so sure that 'they' [the ETs/aliens] are not functioning in a scientific universe that trumps our knowledge to trite by comparison. You probably do not see this but can you at least accept the possibility?

Originally posted by AlienView
And the argument continues but you are all forgetting one simple fact. You are basing all your observations on your scientific but limited view of the universe . How do you know that the math, science and physics you are dealing with reflects the 'actual' universe. In fact I can imagine a science so far advanced over your perspectives so as to make your perspective by comparison to be that of ants in a closed in ant farm. I exaggerate to make a point. How do you know that your science, physics, and math is showing even a small fraction of the actual cosmos?

Are you familiar with the term Pseudoscience? This thread in NO WAY reflects legit scientific process, or in fact, science. Science is an extremely disciplined and defined craft by which the natural physical world is tested and proved, within exacting standards and conditions no less. Nothing, within the non critical manner that the initial information was presented, related to the original topic within this thread, was obtained or presented as a result of science, nor does it reflect scientific process. It's is however IMO, a genuine and intelligent, yet flawed consideration to begin with.

reply to post by MasterOfSparkz

....Science is an extremely disciplined and defined craft by which the natural physical world is tested and proved, within exacting standards and conditions no less....

Please tell me exactly what you mean by 'the natural physical world'. Can you give a definition of what this is and if you can don't you really mean 'the known' natural physical world. And even an exacting scientific mind such as yours has to admit you can not deny the possibility of and unknown physical world. Much of the physical world now known [nuclear physics for example] and discovered mostly in the 20th Century was hardly, if at all, known in the 18th & 19th Centuries. I say, and call it scientific speculation or speculative philosophy, the 21st Century will open new gates and new dimensions of knowledge and possibly show even you how and maybe why the ET phenomenon.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


And all this knowledge from a normal human being who lives in a 3rd dimension world, and has never been to another planet, or near the Sun, and knows nothing of what is going on out there, anymore than the rest of us novices do. Good luck with that.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

 

And all this knowledge from a normal human being who lives in a 3rd dimension world, and has never been to another planet, or near the Sun, and knows nothing of what is going on out there, anymore than the rest of us novices do. Good luck with that.

Well said.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


No physical evidence? You are very wrong and I hope you change your way of thought before years after you find that you were thinking something false for a very long time, it happens to many please don't let it happen to you.