Is the ET belief the same as the belief in trolls, fairies, goblins, and pixies of the medieval time

Although most UFO's have been explained away by either man-made objects (weather balloons, oil rigs, light-houses etc.) or by physical phenomena (celestial bodies, lights shining off birds, auroral phenomena, etc.). Granted, there is a small 5% that cannot be explained by scientific means, that does not imply they are alien controlled space-craft of interstellar origins. It is much more reasonable and logical to believe, without evidence, they are top-secret military technology, although it is quite faulty as that would imply that military scientists have a great deal of knowledge that is unknown to scientists in academia or in the private industry.

Of all millions that have reported to supposedly being abducted by aliens, none have taken the initiative to at the very least a string of evidence? All it would take is one string of DNA and lab testing that is conclusive of
non-earth origins to prove to the masses that we are being visited by aliens.

If you believe they were here to help us build the pyramids and teach us the sciences, then why did they leave or stop making contact right when human civilization began to grow at unimaginable rates? That doesn't add up, I'm afraid.

Astronomers have examined 20 light years of our solar system's radius and can conclude that there is no life on any other star system within 20 light years of us. This implies that the minimum travel time required for an advanced alien civilization to reach us is >20 years. Time dilation only occurs in the traveler's perspective, so tens of thousands of years could pass on their home planet while they are "spying on us", so the coordinators and engineers that bid them farewell would be long dead by the time they return. This does not take into consideration the ENORMOUS energy expenditures and fuel requirement. It takes approximately 5.47 * 10^17 J (547000000000000000 J) to accelerate 1 KG of mass to 99% (0.99c) of the speed of light. With all of Canada's energy expenditure in a year (converted from kilowatt hours to joules), you can only accelerate 3.5 KG of mass to 99% of the speed of light. According to UFO reports, they can range from as small as the size of the 3 combined basketballs and as big as a mile across. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that UFO's that small would carry the fuel requirement needed to accelerate to 99% of the speed of light, and convert it to energy to be used to do work, which contradicts all of our known laws of thermodynamics as during conversion, some energy is lost as heat during every stage of conversion which implies an even greater fuel requirement than was needed with 100% efficient conversion to energy. The larger UFO's (mile across) would require exhausting the resources of entire planets, and other energy needed for "shields" to protect against all forms of space debris that are normally harmless at lower speeds, can collide with the force of a fission nuclear explosion with an object traveling at relativistic speeds. All of that trouble just to spy on us humans?


With no physical evidence of aliens, compounded with the infeasibility of interstellar travel to just spy on humans, along with the millions of abduction reports that heavily correlate with mental health issues, can we not conclude that belief in ET is the modern belief of yesterday's trolls, fairies, goblins, and pixies?

Good post.

Yes, I believe the modern conception of "aliens" and "UFOs" are modern, space-age, versions of the age old fairy tales people use to believe in.

A hundred years ago people saw the Virgin Mother in their farm yard, today they see little grey creatures sneaking into their bedroom. Both are merely figments of the imagination or the result of hallucinations, mental illness, deliberate lying etc..

Centuries ago when people had nightmares and sleep paralysis they use to blame it on demons, spirits or things like the "old hag", today they blame it on alien abduction.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Astronomers have examined 20 light years of our solar system's radius and can conclude that there is no life on any other star system within 20 light years of us. This implies that the minimum travel time required for an advanced alien civilization to reach us is >20 years.

edit on 8-7-2011 by MathematicalPhysicist because: (no reason given)

Can you provide a source?

No you can't because there has been no conclusion on ET life. It could be in our solar system, it could be in a neighbouring one, it could be in a different galaxy or it may not exist at all.

Trolls, goblins ect could be explained by human deformities which were not diagnosed in past history.

When the observable universe is 14 billion light years long, to say aliens don't exist because you personally think that astronomers have examined 20 light years and come to the conclusion that life only exists here is not only very ignorant, but extremely stupid.

Before you make bold claims, make sure you have the evidence to back those claims up.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


you need to delete the whole 4th paragraph. Its easy to dismiss it because you dont know what tech advanced civs could come up with. If they use wormholes they dont need to travel through space at near light speed. Also we dont know if theres any life within 20 years it certainly hasn't been ruled out.

Your just going to get attacked on those points. The rest of your post has merit though

they exist only in the minds of the weak
2nd

No
Belief in trolls, fairies, goblins are not witnessed and documented by millitary pilots ,generals,soldiers,astronauts etc etc ..so you can't compare and make analogy of these.

What seems to me to be incredible is that so many folk dismiss the theory out of hand. It makes me wonder how varied their reading list is.

Pimander pointed me to an ATS members link to an article on gnostic beliefs that have been revealed through manuscripts from the Nag Hamadi library that might be pertinent to this discussion.

If the information in the following article is correct, then the gnostics were describing abductions and interactions with what sound a lot like "greys" and reptoids even B.C.!

The Gnostic Theory of Alien Intrusion

The study of the time in which this "shift" in our perceptions of these entities began to take shape--from "spiritual" or "magical" creatures to "extraterrestrials"--is utterly fascinating in itself.

Theosophy and Crowley(ites) had much to do with this shift and right around 1947 things really went into high gear. A very interesting year 1947.

Good thread.

Originally posted by splittheatom
Can you provide a source?

Source
This is the only planet that can possibly sustain any sort of life within a 20 light year radius of us, and it does not. Astronomers have concluded that no star within 20 light years of us sustains any form of life on their respective planets.

Originally posted by splittheatomNo you can't because there has been no conclusion on ET life. It could be in our solar system, it could be in a neighbouring one, it could be in a different galaxy or it may not exist at all.

Are you implying that planets in our known solar system can harbor ET life, despite all astronomers unanimously agree on the contrary? Such a compelling argument.

Originally posted by splittheatomTrolls, goblins ect could be explained by human deformities which were not diagnosed in past history.

That is only partially true. People still legitimately believed that entire species of trolls, goblins, pixies, and fairies existed and built various legends around them.

Originally posted by splittheatomWhen the observable universe is 14 billion light years long, to say aliens don't exist because you personally think that astronomers have examined 20 light years and come to the conclusion that life only exists here is not only very ignorant, but extremely stupid.

I never said that they do not exist, I just said it is quite irrational to come to the conclusion they'd spend all that time, precious resources, and overcome the many obstacles just to spy on us and return home without making any form of contact. You need to work on your reading comprehension.

Originally posted by splittheatomBefore you make bold claims, make sure you have the evidence to back those claims up.

edit on 8/7/2011 by splittheatom because: (no reason given)

Interestingly enough, it is you who believe in ET without any form of evidence, while we have scientific evidence that there is NO life within 20 light years of us. Logically, we can conclude that no civilization would traverse such distances only to observe us. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, in which you and the many ET believers are lacking a great deal in.

Originally posted by xavi1000
No
Belief in trolls, fairies, goblins are not witnessed and documented by millitary pilots ,generals,soldiers,astronauts etc etc ..so you can't compare and make analogy of these.

Appeal to authority fallacy. Even if Stephen Hawking were to announce tomorrow that aliens exist, without evidence, he would not be taken seriously and would be ridiculed by his colleagues and the skeptic community.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

the infeasibility of interstellar travel to just spy on humans, along with the millions of abduction reports that heavily correlate with mental health issues, can we not conclude that belief in ET is the modern belief of yesterday's trolls, fairies, goblins, and pixies?

We could, but I believe it would be an injustice to reality. You speak of the implausibility of interstellar travel, yet I have to ask what math you are using to determine that? Math that was created here on earth with variables from man's mind? I suppose we could have followed this logic, tho we may have never been able to get wonderful helicopter cam footage, as according to math it was impossible for a helicopter to exist.

As for the mental health correlation, i would like to point out the word correlation, as opposed to causation. Too many people rely on the correlation of things for proof of causation.

Astronomers have examined 20 light years of our solar system's radius and can conclude that there is no life on any other star system within 20 light years of us.

NASA has found life to exist in arsenic. Article Now of course, life was never thought to be able to exist there, as it was never thought to exist in many harsh locales in the world. Yet, here we are, older and wiser, now in the know of these things. Basically, until we have seen first hand what is on other planets, even within our own solar system, we dont know if there is life present.

Sure we can assume, that because the conditions are not adequate for human life, that life cannot be supported on that particular planet. This is where erroneous though comes in, for fish are different, and need vastly different requirements than us, to sustain life. Why is the same not possible on Saturn, for instance?

If you believe they were here to help us build the pyramids and teach us the sciences, then why did they leave or stop making contact right when human civilization began to grow at unimaginable rates? That doesn't add up, I'm afraid.

True, they may have not been around for these ancient time periods, but art and texts seem to at least allude to the idea. I do not see how you are able to say it does not add up, when for all we know, we may be a science experiment that needs to reach maturity (not the emotional term, the scientific) before they check up on us.

Astronomers have examined 20 light years of our solar system's radius and can conclude that there is no life on any other star system within 20 light years of us. This implies that the minimum travel time required for an advanced alien civilization to reach us is >20 years.

This is simply not true. Its apparent, you would know that Gleiss has a exo-planet within the "goldilocks zone" of being able to sustain human life. Once again the key words are "human life".

Of all millions that have reported to supposedly being abducted by aliens, none have taken the initiative to at the very least a string of evidence? All it would take is one string of DNA and lab testing that is conclusive of
non-earth origins to prove to the masses that we are being visited by aliens.

This thread describes a encounter and has had science applied to it. It seemsto allude that the hair is of hominoid origin of an unknown type,

ATS Thread

So in answer to this,

can we not conclude that belief in ET is the modern belief of yesterday's trolls, fairies, goblins, and pixies?

I say we can conclude nothing, on either side of the argument.

Good thread with some great points.

Well done star and flag

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


Really, your source is the daily mail?

Possibly one of the most unintelligible newspapers in the world.

Plus this is from 4 years ago, there has been many more discoveries and theories make since this story.

What I'm saying is that scientists just don't know. I am not making claims that ET's do exist, what I am saying is that they could exist anywhere, we don't have the proof for it yet for or against.

What you are doing, is making claims, backed up by no sources in your OP, and the only source you can throw me is an article from a newspaper which is 4 years old.

You have your right to voice your opinion, but please don't try to pass it off as fact.

Originally posted by yeti101
you need to delete the whole 4th paragraph. Its easy to dismiss it because you dont know what tech advanced civs could come up with. If they use wormholes they dont need to travel through space at near light speed. Also we dont know if theres any life within 20 years it certainly hasn't been ruled out.

Your just going to get attacked on those points. The rest of your post has merit though

Indeed, but we have never observed ANY form of phenomena that contradicts any of our prominent laws of physics. Science is not complete, yes, but the burden of proof is on them to prove that the established laws of physics are faulty and can be breached by means of experimentation and or mathematical proof. If they can't, then there assumptions hold no weight and cannot and should not be taken seriously.

We have found protons traveling at 99.99999999999999999999951% (complete insanity), but never breaking the universal speed limit (c). Now, when you hear these believers say ridiculous things such as observing UFO's traveling at 5x the speed of light, it just makes you wonder...?

"I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that UFO's that small would carry the fuel requirement needed to accelerate to 99% of the speed of light"

I just want to touch on this.
Isn't it theoretically possible to create some sort of constant energetic reaction rather then using fuels?

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Originally posted by yeti101
you need to delete the whole 4th paragraph. Its easy to dismiss it because you dont know what tech advanced civs could come up with. If they use wormholes they dont need to travel through space at near light speed. Also we dont know if theres any life within 20 years it certainly hasn't been ruled out.

Your just going to get attacked on those points. The rest of your post has merit though

Indeed, but we have never observed ANY form of phenomena that contradicts any of our prominent laws of physics. Science is not complete, yes, but the burden of proof is on them to prove that the established laws of physics are faulty and can be breached by means of experimentation and or mathematical proof. If they can't, then there assumptions hold no weight and cannot and should not be taken seriously.

We have found protons traveling at 99.99999999999999999999951% (complete insanity), but never breaking the universal speed limit (c). Now, when you hear these believers say ridiculous things such as observing UFO's traveling at 5x the speed of light, it just makes you wonder...?

C is the speed of light in a vacuum. We can make EM waves travel faster than C when travelling through different mediums.

reply to post by yourmaker


Well fission is a chain reaction, you split one atom, usually Uranium, by firing a neutron at it it splits into smaller atoms and a few more neutrons, which get fired at more uranium thus starting a chain reaction.

You need to maintain this chain reaction, but yeah you only really need energy to start it.

Although I'm not quite sure what reaction you are talking about.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1b0e5e710332.png[/atsimg]

Originally posted by xavi1000
No
Belief in trolls, fairies, [color=gold] goblins are not witnessed and documented by millitary pilots ,generals,soldiers,astronauts etc etc ..so you can't compare and make analogy of these.

Well that statement is half right.
In World War 2 the gremlin was witnessed by many airforce personnel,
but it definetly wasn't documented by the millitary.


David Grouchy

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7f4f47f8fcd5.png[/atsimg]

Originally posted by splittheatom
Really, your source is the daily mail?

You won't find knowledge that is considered common sense among astronomers in peer-reviewed articles, but you will in layman articles such as the media and newspapers.

Possibly one of the most unintelligible newspapers in the world.
Here's anothersource. Or is this not credible enough?

Originally posted by splittheatomPlus this is from 4 years ago, there has been many more discoveries and theories make since this story.

This source is from Oct 2010, is that recent enough for you?

Originally posted by splittheatomWhat I'm saying is that scientists just don't know. I am not making claims that ET's do exist, what I am saying is that they could exist anywhere, we don't have the proof for it yet for or against.

Sure, scientists aren't certain whether the planets within 20 light years of us have bacterial life or not, but we can be certain that they don't harbor ANY advanced ET civilizations that are capable of interstellar travel. Not one satellite or other forms of robotics found that are not man-made. No trace of intelligent life capable of interstellar travel on a planet heavily implies that the planet does not host any intelligent life.

Originally posted by splittheatomWhat you are doing, is making claims, backed up by no sources in your OP, and the only source you can throw me is an article from a newspaper which is 4 years old.

Ah, yes, I'm the one making claims after we conclude from the many years of closely examining the many planets that due possibly hold intelligent life show no signs of it at all, while the ones who claim ET's are here and contradict all laws of physics are more factual?

Originally posted by splittheatomYou have your right to voice your opinion, but please don't try to pass it off as fact.

My opinion is based off countless observations of different stars that show no form of intelligent life that is capable of interstellar travel, which would normally leave a MAJOR footprint, while yours is based off of science-fiction and speculation.

NO............

Originally posted by xavi1000
No
Belief in trolls, fairies, goblins are not witnessed and documented by millitary pilots ,generals,soldiers,astronauts etc etc ..so you can't compare and make analogy of these.

Trolls are real... they are all over ATS

Faeries and Elves? I have seen many... I am partial to Elves actually

Dragons? They are all around you... you just need to open your eyes and see them..