ATS Reality: CoIntelPro, Shills, Freemasons, and Socks: The Definitive Guide

Originally posted by Dw2881

well it looks like dw committed suicide before i could hear his answer! I'm always curious if those that claim ats rapes and pillages its members truly understand the methods employed to keep it functioning/online and generating revenue, this cointel, disinfo, sock, shill fecal verbal fiasco sucks so much time and energy from a good thing it really is parasitic. Deny ignorance yeah, because true ignorance is boring as hell.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


As mentioned on the previous page, he's a returning banned member who utilized multiple accounts. Now apparently there is some intense sour grapes.

His claim that we impose our "copy write" or otherwise rob our members of their content is incorrect, and merely a parroting of the lies concocted about us.

The Terms & Conditions clearly state that, when you post to ATS, you grant us a non-revocable non-exclusive copyright to use what you post as we see fit. In reality, without that, we couldn't legally display your posts under our domain. But our members still retain original ownership of their posts.

reply to post by Pimander


Pimander, buddy, you must have missed my previous posts, because I'm not saying that ATS should censor what gets on the front page.

What I'm saying is I should be able to create a thread pointing out:

1) Silly threads like the one that was on the front page yesterday get too much attention on ATS
2) Why do so many members get wrapped up in obvious hoax threads
3) Our membership is getting more gullible

I just think I have a right to create a thread about this and I can't.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Yes, I'm very aware of how this all works, been doing it for, close to 2 decades now. I just like to hear the insane proposals from the un-informed. Who knows maybe someday out of the turds thrown at the wall they might actually open a new revenue stream.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


So now you're saying "what would come of it if I created a thread mentioning all of this?"

What does it matter? I want to make a thread about something on my mind and you won't let me.

If I don't mention a member by name or link to a thread, the overall content of my intended thread doesn't violate T & C.

I think it's good we're all talking about this, maybe something good can come of it.

Sometimes it's good to get get some constructive criticism.

Originally posted by Societalgnorance
1) Silly threads like the one that was on the front page yesterday get too much attention on ATS

But that's simply YOUR opinion. While you felt it was silly, enough members felt it was of value (for one reason or another) and offered enough flags to elevate the topic to the site home.

Sure, from time to time we may get a topic that receives a lot of flags where many members end up regretting it. However, when looking at the 3-month overview, I think everything evens out in the end, and the quality really does remain at the top.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


If it's only my opinion, then why is the thread closed for staff review?

It's because it's a hoax.

Bottom Line: I wanted to point out how gullible the ATS membership is, and how hoax threads get so much attention, how it makes look ATS look silly, and I wasn't allowed to do so.

That's all there is to it.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
It's seems that fear of multiple-personalities and/or sock puppets is beginning to surpass the fear of agents provocateur.

Do you (and others) really think "someone" is going through the effort of managing multiple accounts simply to influence content on ATS? Keep in mind that to be truly effect so as to influence flagging, one would need about 50 accounts.

Some of those agents provocateur would be sock puppets obviously. A few operatives would need about 12 accounts each. Do you think there would be people making money for providing persona management services if nobody used them? I am pretty sure it is happening but only on certain topics. I've posted my reasons in the two threads linked to in my signature and am not going to repeat everything I've already said.

I've also already made it clear who the "someone" is in previous posts that I know you have read. You disingenuously try to suggest I am confused when that is patently not the case.

There is no fear either. Just concern. To try to paint me as confused, afraid and/or paranoid is disrespectful. Anyone genuinely familiar with my contribution on ATS who doesn't have an axe to grind for me knows very well that I am none of those things.

The thing that surprises me is that you are so touchy about this. I am not accusing you of anything. It isn't the staffs fault if persona mangers are sophisticated enough to beat your protective measures. If you're worried about being accused of running a CoIntelPro operation argue with someone who thinks you are.

I am just suggesting that alphabet agencies (including defence ones), private interest groups and religious/spiritual groups operate on here.

As I said it is because they agree with you when you said this.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
There is a fundamental paradigm shifting (sorry for the cliche) idea here that is worthy of a full-in effort. If we (The Above Network) can foster a meaningful smart crowd (ATS) into other media extensions such as radio, books, video, television, and more, then we have created a means whereby the online user-generated ecosystem has the opportunity to not just influence but dictate aspects of offline media. And we're well-more than half-way there.

Consider the potential ramifications of a "smart crowd" with the topical mix ATS which has been elevated to a position of clout such that it can dictate the content of mainstream media properties. Think about it.

It's what keeps me going.

"What keeps (you) going," is the same thing that brings them here. Contrary to what a couple of members have posted, ATS does matter outside ATS.

You may have the OPINION that they aren't here. I have the OPINION that they are. one of us is right. I'd even suggest that both our OPINIONS are fairly well informed. It is OK to respectfully disagree. You don't have to try to paint me as a frightened, paranoid and/or confused person. I respect you and your site and would like to think I deserve yours. After all, I have contributed some reasonable quality free content for you to profit from.

At the end of the day, what I am trying to say is.... I am not your enemy. So lets all try to be friends.


Big hugs

Pimander

Originally posted by Pimander
The thing that surprises me is that you are so touchy about this. I am not accusing you of anything. It isn't the staffs fault if persona mangers are sophisticated enough to beat your protective measures.

I apologize if my responses specific to the possibility of multiple-personas have come across touchy, that's not the case.

It's just that with the tools we have available behind the scenes, both for our staff and those reserved for myself (because they involve highly-intense queries/code that if used too often, could slow the site), we simply don't see it happening to the magnitude feared by members.

Of the cases we've encountered (and we have encountered some), they fall into one of four categories:
1) a member with a handful of other accounts used to prop-up their threads
2) a banned member returning on a new account
3) more than one person in the same household with ATS accounts
4) more than one person in the same office with ATS accounts

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it's not worthy of the level of concern we see in this and other threads.

I am just suggesting that alphabet agencies (including defence ones), private interest groups and religious/spiritual groups operate on here.

Okay, let's step back.

Assuming that there is a possibility that a concerted effort by a particular group is using ATS to prop-up a particular agenda, or debunk one... doesn't matter. And, their efforts have slipped past our counter-measures, and have gone unnoticed by our staff.

What would you have us do to detect and eliminate such activity?







The above has indeed happened on two occasions, with two UFO-related hoaxes: Project Serpo and the Caret drones... and possibly a third the NASA astronomer hoax. In all three cases, our members eventually outed the hoax, eviscerated their material, and sent them packing with shame.

reply to post by Societalgnorance

I think enough has been said, since clearly, you're unwilling to accept our well-considered stance on the issue... which is not going to change.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I agree. I also want to echo the same sentiments as Pimander.

I respect you and your site, and would like the same respect to be extended to me.

I was shocked and concerned when I wasn't able to express my opinion on ATS, which was where I thought free expression was not only welcomed, but encouraged.

I didn't bring this up to start problems, or put my hands over my hears and scream "lalalalalalala" when you explain your reasoning.

I simply didn't know I couldn't make a thread about my view of the membership on ATS

Instead of being looked at as a dissident, I should be looked at as a concerned, loyal member, who had some questions about censorship on ATS.

reply to post by Societalgnorance


Let's face it: Drama sells. Sensationalism sells. Look at media today. If it isn't dramatic and sensational, it doesn't, for the most part, make the headlines. Sadly, tragedy also sells. Not necessarily in this format though.

I came to this site in search of truth. Originally, back in '01, I was looking for the truth about gravitaional drives. I obtained some information about a Bismuth isotope, element 119, that intrigued me. I did extensive research into the PX. I started having some dramatic, sensational experiences of my own, probably the result of lots of morphine I received for two back surgeries and a spinal tap. I had an oobe. I got saved through prayer. I investigated what I believe to be my dad's connection to Operation Paperclip.

In the process of all this, at the end of '03 start of '04, the site underwent some significant changes, becoming what I considered quite commercial. I joined at the end of '04 to share my experiences and speak out against what I considered the disasterous course the country was placed on by the MIC and the GOP. Lots of drama and sensationalism. Lots of site growth. I was pretty active through the end of '08-'09.

I guess my curiosty was satisfied or my cortisol levels normalized or something after that, because the site became less appealing and I stopped posting as much. The drama and sensationalism didn't suck me in any more. Peace was what I was seeking. And the truth, always the truth. This thread is the first one I have had much to do with in a while. There have been a couple others, but this one really grabbed me. I know now who Simon isn't. I still want to know who he is. The site owners are under no obligation to reveal themselves. Skeptic and Springer have chosen to. That leaves me curious. That's all.

If a site has banned speech then something is fishy. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise. BAN topics and you get what you reap. Not saying it is fair to be labeled but many feel when topics are banned it shows corruption.

Originally posted by Buford2
If a site has banned speech then something is fishy.

Can you elaborate?

Why would restricting discussion on a small handful of topics, out of the broad universe of all other topics discussed on ATS, cause one to think something is "fishy?"

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Skeptic you know how the human brain works. People who see things banned are going to be looking for answers. If a site doesnt believe in free speech then they will be called on it. Your site is no different than every other site on the net, they all ban certain topics. The things we get to discuss are presented to us. The real truth is hidden.

Originally posted by Buford2
If a site doesnt believe in free speech then they will be called on it.

Free expression has always been strongly supported on ATS.

The things we get to discuss are presented to us. The real truth is hidden.

Is there a specific topic you believe should be covered on ATS, yet you think we're working to hide the truth about it?

Apology accepted.

I guess I might been getting edgy after having to defend my own position so many times. Apologies if I have done so over-zealously on this thread.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Okay, let's step back.

Assuming that there is a possibility that a concerted effort by a particular group is using ATS to prop-up a particular agenda, or debunk one... doesn't matter. And, their efforts have slipped past our counter-measures, and have gone unnoticed by our staff.

What would you have us do to detect and eliminate such activity?

As far as I'm aware you are doing what you can. The crux of what I am getting at in terms of dealing with the problem is aimed at members and there isn't much beyond awareness.

I am not in the slightest bit surprised that you have come across problems regarding Serpo. If that hasn't had disinfo thrown into the mix then I don't know what has. Some of the BS and lack of discernment from certain parties I have witnessed regarding that is incredible.

I'm not familiar with the other incidents but it's good to know that you guys have picked up on it before.

I know you don't get an easy ride but at least it isn't boring.

Is there a specific topic you believe should be covered on ATS, yet you think we're working to hide the truth about it?

Yes, the gullibility of the membership of ATS and how hoax threads garner so much attention.

I'm not allowed to create a thread about this.

Originally posted by Societalgnorance

Is there a specific topic you believe should be covered on ATS, yet you think we're working to hide the truth about it?

Yes, the gullibility of the membership of ATS and how hoax threads garner so much attention.

I'm not allowed to create a thread about this. End Quote.

Good, it sounds boring and negative.

Do you have a gullibility measuring device, if so, what is the percentage of gullibility ?

We all like a laugh and a good mystery we can crack with little effort....that is why hoax threads garner so much attention.

Attention seeking....

Cosmic...

Edit to add: my bad