Judge has harsh words for Mom before sentencing her for spanking her kid

reply to post by newcovenant

If you strike a child you have lost the ability to reason.

Not many 2yr olds have any concept of reasoning, nor of the dangers of cars, electrical sockets, hot stoves etc but they need to learn very quickly that there can be a serious consequence to not being careful around them...

The mother, in this case, is not the custodial parent. Apparently, the grandmother has custody of this child. That would involve decisions on how to correct the child, raise the child, provide for the child, etc. Even though there appears to be some sort of "vendetta" between them, that doesn't discount the fact that, for some reason unknown to us, the court has decided previously that it is in the best interest of the child to live with his/her grandmother.

Although the judge in this case should have kept her opinion of correct child rearing out of her decision on this case and failed to do so, you have to ask yourself... If the roles were reversed and the MOTHER had custody of the child and found marks on the child, after coming home from a visit to the grandmother's house, would you still be against this action?

That is the real question here, there is much more to this story than we know. It is not a simple "government intrusion on parental rights issue". If it were, I'd be right along with the majority of comments. All this discussion on the best way to raise a child, to spank or not to spank, is really not at issue here.

Government should simply stay out of families' lives, unless invited into their lives by the person(s) responsible for the child. Which, in this case, was seemingly what happened here.

Originally posted by Solomons

Originally posted by SteveR
There's something wrong with the parenting if violence is required.

A violent attack and the quick sharp shock a child receives from a slap after doing something wrong are two very different things imo. The method of slapping a kid has always been imo about the shock factor rather than causing pain.

edit on 18-6-2011 by Solomons because: (no reason given)

Not true at all.

It is not ok to slap a child "just to get their attention."

If you cannot get the child's attention without first inflicting a sharp pain or a slap -you are training the child like one might train a dog or a non sentient being, as hopefully your child is.

There are exceptions....see above.

If you cannot get the child attention without slapping the child first,

then that is the problem

Paying attention.

I know this is like rocket science and almost durn near impossible for some folks to wrap their brains around (punch drunk - I can only assume lol) but violence is abuse and always unnecessary and slapping a child is not a great way to get their attention. There are other ways but they require THOUGHT and not simple, habitually trained reactionary measures we learned from our own stressed out parents.

Some folks are good at the instantaneous reacting (blah, blah, blah)
but not so sharp on the THOUGHT.

I am 20 years of age and I am glad that my parents gave me a good spank or 2 when I missed behaved! I look at children etc now days and think"pfft, idiots now days" even people that are only 4 years younger than me and I know for a fact didn't get disciplined.

I was in school and I seen people my own age gettinginto teachers face and I wouldn't dream of it!

My younger sister and brother didn't get diciplined like I did and they are hardly behaving themselves aswell.

Originally posted by David291
I am 20 years of age and I am glad that my parents gave me a good spank or 2 when I missed behaved! I look at children etc now days and think"pfft, idiots now days" even people that are only 4 years younger than me and I know for a fact didn't get disciplined.

I was in school and I seen people my own age gettinginto teachers face and I wouldn't dream of it!

My younger sister and brother didn't get diciplined like I did and they are hardly behaving themselves aswell.

That's right. LEARN TO RESPECT AUTHORITY.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by David291
I am 20 years of age and I am glad that my parents gave me a good spank or 2 when I missed behaved! I look at children etc now days and think"pfft, idiots now days" even people that are only 4 years younger than me and I know for a fact didn't get disciplined.

I was in school and I seen people my own age gettinginto teachers face and I wouldn't dream of it!

My younger sister and brother didn't get diciplined like I did and they are hardly behaving themselves aswell.

That's right. LEARN TO RESPECT AUTHORITY.

He did learn to respect authority. By being spanked.

reply to post by 0288796


This is what spanking says to a child.

If you think it says anything more poignant such as "this is how much I love you" or "this is hurting me more than it hurts you" and the ever popular "one day you are going to thank me for this" you are kidding yourself.

This is what the judge is doing to the parents.
He was probably spanked as a child himself.
Actually this is our civil society in a nutshell. Individual differences are discouraged and we are trained from early on to be drones and take orders.

Some people just don't think it is right.
Others think "well my parents did it to me and look how great I turned out."

I say - look at the world.
Is it working?

Is this something more beatings will fix?

It should be considered child abuse not to discipline your child.

reply to post by newcovenant


Yeah, because South Park is definitely the source to prove a parenting point.

Also, didn't this whole new wave of parenting crap start with the Baby-boomers?
What a great crop of kids they produced.
I think yo get more

Originally posted by scoobdude

For my son we have started using the corner and holding (full) coke cans (gotta use em for something since we don't drink em) at arms length. This not only makes them stronger but it causes them a pain that is in no way leaving a mark other than a mental one.

This is abuse pure and simple! You may as well be hitting him.
In fact, whoever came up with this form of discipline in your household is rather sick.
Nice way to torture your own kid. He's gonna have some great memories of you!

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by newcovenant

 

If you strike a child you have lost the ability to reason.

Not many 2yr olds have any concept of reasoning, nor of the dangers of cars, electrical sockets, hot stoves etc but they need to learn very quickly that there can be a serious consequence to not being careful around them...

Of course not silly.
It is your job as a parent to teach them. Your panic is enough.
You think that does not make an impression?
You can remember as a child when you were going to be hit. You saw it coming.

None of us like to admit our child needs extra attention, but there are times when that is the case and the dividends are enormous, equal to the frustration of NOT hitting. You will grow a more empathetic and compassionate child who does not think brute force is acceptable in any case.

A clap of the hands together loudly and sharply gets the same degree of attention as a slap on the hands without the personal insult and unseen, deep seated and thoroughly studied, proven, psychological trauma.

Why not after all bring the child's hand close to the stove to show the heat, show a burn?
Show someone in pain? Explain or let it wait until the child is older to learn this particular lesson and KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE STOVE.

You should be supervising your child so a 2 year old does not have to learn the hard way the stove is hot and they will drown in the pool. This is not something you should expect them to GET.

You have other things to do that you think are more important and that is the truth no matter how much you say "oh no, hitting is effective. I like it and think all parents should do it." BS and a cop out. Rationalize it all you want.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Yeah, because South Park is definitely the source to prove a parenting point.

Also, didn't this whole new wave of parenting crap start with the Baby-boomers?
What a great crop of kids they produced.
I think yo get more

edit on 18-6-2011 by macman because: (no reason given)

Thanks for saving me to type the same thing.

This is so ridiculous. What if a kid is about to do something dangerous, like reach for an electric socket or a hot stove or something? Surely a quick slap is the best way to teach them not to do that? Sometimes kids need discipline. It's hardly child abuse.

But no, thanks to the stupid *insert long winded rant here* nanny state, liberal nonsense world we have to live in nowadays, you aren't allowed to touch the 'darling child' - with the result that they think they can get away with anything, and grow up to be the disrespectful, law-ignoring yobs we see today.

reply to post by dolphinfan


the older i get, the more thankful i am to my Mother & Father for using leadership & discipline to correct my errors as a child. i meet so many people that were poorly raised, it's a sin. this article is another example of how TPTB and their long-term think tank study groups carefully mold & mildew the world, tainting each generation with un-natural and destructive foresight.

these things i read on ATS frustrate me so. i am powerless to bring about change, my words are piss in the wind.

reply to post by tappy

What if a kid is about to do something dangerous, like reach for an electric socket or a hot stove or something?

You keep the child away from these things.

You do not let this be possible to happen to children of a certain age.

You are right.

They ARE too young to learn not to touch these things but hitting them teaches them that and then some.

People are trying to replace SUPERVISION with slapping.
Okay, so you don't have to supervise the kid around the stove, the kid will just know from now on because you slapped their hands. ppl r nuts

Originally posted by tappy
This is so ridiculous. What if a kid is about to do something dangerous, like reach for an electric socket or a hot stove or something? Surely a quick slap is the best way to teach them not to do that? Sometimes kids need discipline. It's hardly child abuse.,,,

Right.

Years of "enlightened parenting", some on this thread propose, leads to this:

Originally posted by LargeFries
reply to post by dolphinfan

 

the older i get, the more thankful i am to my Mother & Father for using leadership & discipline to correct my errors as a child. i meet so many people that were poorly raised, it's a sin. this article is another example of how TPTB and their long-term think tank study groups carefully mold & mildew the world, tainting each generation with un-natural and destructive foresight.

these things i read on ATS frustrate me so. i am powerless to bring about change, my words are piss in the wind.

This is because you are a good soldier.
You learned not to trust yourself to be effective.
You learned to follow orders. It is a part of the plan.

reply to post by romanmel


A parent can be a pussy and not get any respect from their children because well they ARE wimpy and don't make good strong decisions and follow through. Maybe they have never done a single thing they ever said they would and never been right in their life. Maybe they overly coddled the child and did not RESPECT the child so the child does not even know WHAT RESPECT IS to show it to someone else.

Respect is just giving someone room to live and BE as they wish.
(within a few set boundaries such as not harming or infringing on others etc)

Maybe they raised the kids like helpless, incompetent babies without arms, legs and a brain? The parents usually do their bidding for them. Oh he won't eat that, and he doesn't like this and you shouldn't do this around them. What a way to create a monster who is no good for anything. This surprisingly DOES NOT SHOW RESPECT for the child's natural innate abilities to solve problems for them self and get around in the world. People mistake this indulgence and over pampering for kindness or good parenting. It is disastrous and anything but.

You will get the kind of brat you see above but in this case it is the kids father who needs a good slap out of it.

This child has never met a consequence in his life.
You can teach a great deal with simple consequences and restrictions on luxuries and freedoms.

You do not have to resort to...the beating.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by tappy

 

People are trying to replace SUPERVISION with slapping.
Okay, so you don't have to supervise the kid around the stove, the kid will just know from now on because you slapped their hands.

Nobody is trying to replace anything with anything. A few generations ago, when people still had respect for their elders and the concept of a nanny state was blissfully unheard of, parents knew how to bring up their children, and they and schoolteachers were allowed to use basic discipline to teach right from wrong. Nobody thought it was wrong, nobody called it child abuse, and they were right.

But now we are spiralling into a situation where kids are brought up thinking they can do no wrong, that no one can touch them, resulting in (for example) increasing amounts of teenage pregnancies, violent behaviour (stabbing/shooting people in the street etc), from kids who know they can do no wrong because time after time, the person trying to instill a modicum of discipline into them will be seen to be in the wrong.

Then these kids get old enough to have kids, and they don't care or don't bother attempting any discipline in their kids, and so on and so on. Cases like the one in the OP do not help, it is yet another step on the very slippery slope we are on. It has to stop. There is nothing wrong with occasional discipline of a child, there is nothing wrong in eaching them morals and respect. That is not the same as child abuse and anyone who thinks so is clearly misguided.

ppl r nuts

Sorry, my back is too sore to stoop low enough to grace that statement with an equivalent answer.

If you spank that Judge when she's not on the job...it's a misdemeanor.

Spank your own kid and it's a Felony?

This country has gone to crap and needs to be collapsed and rebuilt. IF you are to be financially responsible for whatever that kid does until he/she is 18 years of age....we better be able to spank them to prevent them from destroying other peoples property..killing people...raping people...etc..


Adolph Hitler also abolished parents power and turned kids against their own families...stripping those kids from the families and sending them to "teaching camps"....those kids were all the property of Adolph Hitler.

Look at where we are today. 4th REICH