Childhood diseases return as parents refuse vaccines

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by HappyBunny
Regarding the mercury content, first of all, it's not mercury. It's thimerasol.

It's not thimerasol. It's thimerosal. And what's in Thimerosal?

www.fda.gov...

Thimerosal is approximately 50% mercury (Hg) by weight.

So it doesn't make you sound like you understand it when you say "it's not mercury. It's thimerasol." If it's got Thimerosal, it's got mercury.

Also, there's a difference between organic and inorganic mercury. Inorganic mercury isn't bioaccumulative, which means it doesn't build up in the blood, bones, or tissues. That is what's in thimerasol.

PS--I don't mean to come off so harshly, but this is one subject that really gets my hackles up.

It seems like you're pretending to know more than the FDA, they only state that it's eliminated more quickly, they don't claim that it doesn't accumulate at all like you seem to be claiming:

Thimerosal Toxicity

The various mercury guidelines are based on epidemiological and laboratory studies of methyl mercury, whereas thimerosal is a derivative of ethyl mercury. Because they are different chemical entities - ethyl- versus methylmercury - different toxicological profiles are expected. There is, therefore, an uncertainty that arises in applying the methylmercury-based guidelines to thimerosal. Lacking definitive data on the comparative toxicities of ethyl- versus methylmercury, FDA considered ethyl- and methyl-mercury as equivalent in its risk evaluation.

If they had a sufficient profile for ethyl mercury, why are they using methylmercury toxicological profiles and pointing out the uncertainty associated with this practice?

As part of the FDAMA review, the FDA evaluated the amount of mercury an infant might receive in the form of ethylmercury from vaccines under the U.S. recommended childhood immunization schedule and compared these levels with existing guidelines for exposure to methylmercury, as there are no existing guidelines for ethylmercury, the metabolite of thimerosal. At the time of this review in 1999, the maximum cumulative exposure to mercury from vaccines in the recommended childhood immunization schedule was within acceptable limits for the methylmercury exposure guidelines set by FDA, ATSDR, and WHO. However, depending on the vaccine formulations used and the weight of the infant, some infants could have been exposed to cumulative levels of mercury during the first six months of life that exceeded EPA recommended guidelines for safe intake of methylmercury.

As a precautionary measure, the Public Health Service (including the FDA, National Institutes of Health (NIH), Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) and the American Academy of Pediatrics issued two Joint Statements, urging vaccine manufacturers to reduce or eliminate thimerosal in vaccines as soon as possible (CDC 1999) and (CDC 2000).

Well, if the FDA is "urging vaccine manufacturers to reduce or eliminate thimerosal in vaccines as soon as possible", maybe it's just a precaution, but I'm inclined to follow the same precaution. I already said that I've never seen any link between Thimerosal and problems proven, but if the FDA is being cautious, so am I. See my point?

edit on 17-6-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification

STAR. Well-done Arbitrageur (and others). It's comforting to see this kind of explanation "debunking" the folks who are trying to sell the story that vaccines pose no danger. It's hard to believe people are actually trying to obfuscate the issue by stating "There is no mercury. There is thimerasol [sic]." And then to try to say that it doesn't accumulate. Wow. WOW. Really?

Personally, I stopped getting the flu when I stopped taking the flu shot. Although mandatory for active duty military members, I refused to take the shot the last four years I was in the Air Force. Sure, I kept getting emails stating I needed to go get the shot. I ignored them. When asked, I explained: Every time I get the shot, I become very ill with the flu ---or flu-like symptoms at least--. Word is spreading even in the military because no one ever pressed the issue. Plain and simple: the annual flu shot gets you sick enough to cause you to buy OVER THE COUNTER DRUGS which FUELS a multi-billion dollar cold medicine industry. They have simply CONDITIONED us to expect to get "a little" sick after such shots, and that is why over-the-counter medicine is readily available.

We live in such a toxic soup. If there were advanced lifeforms that we aren't aware of, and if they take the occasional, curious peek at us... They probably think of us the same way we might look at fish living in a polluted lake. No wonder the American life expectancy DECREASED a few years ago, after a long, steady rise for so long.

Originally posted by Xiamara
As for the mercury issue you get more mercury in fish than in a vaccine. So I opt out on the fish and go for the mercury in vaccines, but that's because I'm allergic to fish.

The mercury in the fish isn't injected directly into your blood stream. When you eat mercury your body has defences to attempt to keep the mercury out. Eating a substance cannot be compared to being injected with it. Completely different! The most worrying thing of all being that it is the people promoting vaccines who quote this type of school boy error

What made the Mad Hatter mad and why were 'hatters' considered mad?

They worked with mercury and the amounts they inhaled adled their brains.

Yet we choose to inject something themosal into our children along with a disease!

You Can start to wonder who is mad and does it pay good money.

I believe that the Amish, who in general (they do have free choice but it is frowned upon) do NOT accept vaccinations have virtually NO autism and virtually no Alzheimers disease in their communities.

Could it be that they avoid mercury a known brain 'adler'?

hahah USAtoday articles like this just show how bad big pharma wants toinject chemical cocktails into out bodies, give your body the vitamins and nutrients it needs and the body will fight off anything and keep you in top shape with some exercise... my kids and my whole family have not been vaccinated and none of my friends or their kids either, none of us get sick.... IMO another attempt from a troll who gets paid or just an uninformed brainwashed moron on the ATS forums lookin for flags..

do what you want but i don't trust an industry who makes money on your sickness

reply to post by dreadblitz

Don't you think, dreadblitz, that is the problem, that people believe that their doctor is like an all caring God, and fatherly / motherly figure. They forget that the drugs companies are just a big business out to make a profit and they would be out of business if people were not sick and sick a lot. The sicker people are the more profit they make. They have a financial interest in people being and remaining sick. YOu don't want to lose customers when you are in business.

Now, some people want, need, desire the medicines of the drug companies and they should have them if it makes them happy. I'm all for freedom of choice.

The problem only arises when the same people and the same big businesses want to force their product on everyone regardless of need or consequence. Now THAT is the problem!

reply to post by jameshawkings


There is a difference, but, I was merely pointing out is in no way is mercury DIRECTLY injected into the vein. A Vaccine is NOT I will say is again NOT NOT N O T intravenous, meaning in vein. So to clarify the vaccine is not going into the blood stream via vein but into fatty tissue in your arm thigh butt or stomach.

The amount of mercury on average is 2 - 3 MICROgrams per ml Source. the average in is 52.7 micrograms per gram (white tuna)... Source

For reference one ml or pure water = 1 gram... So a little math and estimating shows MORE mercury in fish and I'm sure your eating more than a gram of fish...


EDIT:

For got to add through eating fish we encounter Bio-magnification (look it up and learn a bit)

reply to post by Xiamara


Should anyone be having mercury injected into them ever at all? Is this wise?

What consequences could having mercury injected into ones body have?

Don't give your baby salt!!! But give him mercury!

This only makes sense in a crazy world!

Originally posted by mb2591
You have more of a chance to get sick and/or die from a vaccine then you have if you get no vaccine at all
I urge every one to stay away from vaccines

edit on 16-6-2011 by mb2591 because: (no reason given)

This is a ridiculous and completely false claim. My wife is an epidemiologist who works with the statistics involved with vaccines on a daily basis. The problems associated with people not being vaccinated are HUGE. She spends most of her time trying to come up with strategies to show people with evidence that their is no casual relationship between vaccinations and the problems people are claiming they cause.

The bottom line... there is plenty of fact based evidence supporting vaccines and ZERO evidence supporting the idea that they are harmful. BUT DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. LOOK UP THE EVIDENCE YOURSELF.

However, we've seen over and over and over again that people will believe the idea with zero evidence rather than the idea with supportive evidence. But hey, I guess natural evolution still plays a role in this world. I just hope these uneducated ignorant people don't get my kids sick before they are old enough to get vaccines.

Originally posted by Elliot
reply to post by Xiamara

 

Should anyone be having mercury injected into them ever at all? Is this wise?

What consequences could having mercury injected into ones body have?

Don't give your baby salt!!! But give him mercury!

This only makes sense in a crazy world!

They took the mercury out of certain vaccines years ago and guess what, the problems people claim are caused by mercury continue to rise. If you don't believe me, look it up yourself.

reply to post by brianmg5


But vaccines, the majority, still contain thermosal which is half mercury.

2nd line

reply to post by Elliot


Actually the human body does require miniscule traces of mercury. Mercury that is naturally found in various animals however no mercury should be added I'm stating that when it comes down to it for me fish is more harmful due to bio-magnification and the long term effects as it is stored in the fat and can build up so when we loose that fat we are flooded with mass amounts of mercury more than what we obtain in a vaccine. Also for pregnant women fish is harmful as the mercury in fish DOES in fact reach the blood stream and will breach the placenta barrier via umbilical chord through the blood.

Originally posted by dreadblitz
hahah USAtoday articles like this just show how bad big pharma wants toinject chemical cocktails into out bodies, give your body the vitamins and nutrients it needs and the body will fight off anything and keep you in top shape with some exercise... my kids and my whole family have not been vaccinated and none of my friends or their kids either, none of us get sick.... IMO another attempt from a troll who gets paid or just an uninformed brainwashed moron on the ATS forums lookin for flags..

do what you want but i don't trust an industry who makes money on your sickness

edit on 17-6-2011 by dreadblitz because: (no reason given)

Big Pharma does not create vaccines. A small amount of companies do. Vaccines are usually very cheap compared to products from huge pharma companies.

There is so much stupid in this thread that I have to leave. Have fun chasing shadows and putting your children at risk.

At least do some research before trusting some idiot in a video claiming this and that.

reply to post by brianmg5


Finally some one with some education (edumacation for you who are not). Star for you!

reply to post by brianmg5

Also, with respect, I would NEVER try to persuade someone to not have a vaccine. This would be their choice. BUT what I find alarming is the zealots who feel that everyone else should and must have a vaccine.

If vaccines work so well, why do the vaccinated fear having anything to do with unvaccinated people.

The unvaccinated very rarely become ill. I only know this because I have known many, many people who for religious reasons have never had vaccines. They barely suffer a sniffle. But the vaccinated want everyone else to have the same 'treatment' as them.

Why?

Sickness abounds in the poor and malnourished whether vaccinated or not.

Why don't we want to feed and nourish everyone?

Why are we calling for mass vaccination and not mass vitamin and food distribution.

What makes more money?

reply to post by Xiamara

Ah, yet again.
Everyone who does not want a vaccination is stupid.
What about freedom of choice?

Personally, I feel those who choose vaccination are intelligent and those who refuse are equally intelligent.

Yet why try to force your opinion on others?

We need to consider both sides of the story with reasonableness and then each to their own decision.

Someone is not MORE educated for accepting or refusing otherwise my GP, a very intelligent man would be considered uneducated because he refused vaccination for himself and his children.

Originally posted by dubiousone

Originally posted by Xiamara
I believe in vaccines I was vaccinated and my children will be too. I would rather take the small percent risk of complications, like what my children are allergic to and if that vaccine contains that. I Cannot get any vaccines that have any silver (I forget which major vaccine it is I believe Hep A? has a silver compound in it). I also know I have a fish allergy, citrus allergy and allergy to certain antihistamines (Ironic I know). People who talk to their doctors or have any good doctor would know that.

As for the mercury issue you get more mercury in fish than in a vaccine. So I opt out on the fish and go for the mercury in vaccines, but that's because I'm allergic to fish.

The fish aren't injected directly into your blood stream!!!!

Neither are vaccines. If you recall, usually those are dumped into your shoulder or your buttocks...so they are injected into fat and muscle.

Reading through this runaway train of a thread...well...you do what you want, ok? Just keep your unvaccinated child away from mine so that if the bugs they catch use your child to create a slight mutation, I won't have to worry about it.

Those of you that talk about being 'fine' when you've not been vaccinated...I'm willing to bet your parents were - especially your mother. If you were breast-fed, then guess what...she vaccinated you for a lot of stuff right there. Poured it right down your unsuspecting mouth.

Part of childhood illness can be attributed to so many women who flat out refuse to breast feed for selfish reasons such as they are afraid of what it will do to their boobs. Babies receive a lot of their immunities from their mothers when breastfeeding, so mothers that don't are putting their child at risk.

Also, reading through this 'discussion' I see a ton of you blaming genetic defects on vaccines. Autism is a crock of horse*# that Jenny McCarthy started spewing when her kid came down with it. It's a disorder that just happens to appear around the same age that kids get a certain vaccine...so therefore it must be the cause right? No.

For the person that mentioned their youngest child being autistic, I do feel sympathy...but you also stated that you have other family members who are autistic...guess what, that means it runs in your family.

Now, I'm not speaking from some random ledge here. I'm an veteran SGT with the US Army. I've been vaccinated for probably 10x the amount of things the rest of you have. (though I refuse to get flu shots lol) Yet I still have an IQ of about 160 (So my MMR and such when I was little, nor the dozens of other shots I've had from the Army did not damage my brain), work a good job with a great company, and have 3 very healthy and happy children (all vaccinated).

As I said at the start - If you don't want to get vaccinated, that's fine and that's your choice. I think you're being silly and just looking for someone to blame for the problems in your life, but whatever. The wonderful thing about humans is we are all different. Things affect us differently and you might not even have much to worry about as the rest of us who do vaccinate are protecting you for the most part. That doesn't mean you get to endanger my children, however. After spending years to protect this country, I damn well refuse to let someone use those rights I protected to hurt my children because of their deluded paranoia. That's MY right and you will respect it the same as I respect yours. I can try to explain to you the dangers, but since so many of you obviously don't want to listen, that's rather futile.

All of this fear-mongering that so many of you subscribe to has to have a limit. Everything is -not- out to get you and in fact -most- really don't give two nickles what happens to you period. There are true conspiracies out there, but with ridiculous threads like this...it's no wonder some of the better debaters from ATS are never around any longer. The OP had a good point, but it's quickly spiraled into the masses of the delusional and easily convinced. People would much rather believe the potential negative side of things than the positive reality.

One of the things that people don't realize about statistics of this nature...when they try to call up examples and such, is that people are more-likely to speak up when they had a problem, not when everything was fine. That is why I am speaking up as an example many of you would be hard to beat. I've had practically every vaccine currently in circulation, some multiple times (though I opted out on the Anthrax one). Uncle Sam likes us healthy in the Army. I'd love to see some of you truly go to fight for your rights and what your NCOIC/DI says when you try to refuse to let the medics vaccinate you.

Our health, as a society, has indeed improved a lot due to our living conditions and so forth, but vaccinations are part of that advancement. They aren't 'cures', they are preventative measures - meaning they lessen the likelihood, as well as the potential severity of the illness should you happen to catch it. They help to train and prepare your immune system for fighting off certain illnesses. But our immune systems are just like us...they are all different. Mine, is great...if I'm sick it's almost never longer than a day, but that doesn't mean anything in regards to anyone other than myself and maybe my family.

So, again, do whatever you like, but don't be surprised if your choice causes you difficulties, and don't try to argue against it. If your child catches a deadly disease and they realize you didn't vaccinate and your child dies, well...you will run the risk of getting slapped with homicidal neglect. If any other children catch it...well, then the charges will multiply as the bodies do. Now, the probability of that happening are extremely low because of the whole herd thing discussed earlier in the thread combined with inherited immunites.

But Anyway...
This kind of thread is one of the things that's going to just drive people away from here with legit issues and topics. Idiotic fear-mongering with Elenin, etc, is above and beyond and a lot of this stuff is starting to look more like a site for people who cower in the corners afraid the mouse that ran across their floor is secretly plotting to take over the world...starting by hollowing out their brain to drive them like a people-mobile...and then realize it's too late.

Originally posted by Elliot
reply to post by brianmg5

 

Also, with respect, I would NEVER try to persuade someone to not have a vaccine. This would be their choice. BUT what I find alarming is the zealots who feel that everyone else should and must have a vaccine.

If vaccines work so well, why do the vaccinated fear having anything to do with unvaccinated people.

The unvaccinated very rarely become ill. I only know this because I have known many, many people who for religious reasons have never had vaccines. They barely suffer a sniffle. But the vaccinated want everyone else to have the same 'treatment' as them.

Why?

Sickness abounds in the poor and malnourished whether vaccinated or not.

Why don't we want to feed and nourish everyone?

Why are we calling for mass vaccination and not mass vitamin and food distribution.

What makes more money?

The bottom line...you're wrong. We are dealing with outbreaks of measles, whooping cough, and other nearly forgotten diseases across the board in the United States and it's directly related to people not vaccinating their children. I hear about this every night when my wife comes home for work.

The saddest part are the children under the age of one year old (not old enough for full vaccination) who are dieing because someone heard some idiot say they are bad.

Did you even look up recent outbreaks before you made your statement? Did you even take the time to check? Here let me help you out:

www.cdc.gov...
www.cdc.gov...

If you're one of those who don't trust the government, check news reports of breakouts.

reply to post by Dashdragon


Can you explain why you fear an unvaccinated child?

Me and mine were all vaccinated and I knew many unvaccinated children and never caught anything from them least of all a mutated virus. They were very healthy but me and mine always had one bug or another!

Shouldn't you fear people being malnourish and poor rather than unvaccinated?

reply to post by Elliot


I'm not saying they are I'm saying some of the excuses people are providing are ludicrous, out dated, and misinformation. I personally don't want my children to be around someone who inst vaccinated and will spread that. Vaccines are only good to a certain extent, like a fire suit, its good only for so much exposure. if your constantly exposed through a sick child who is not vaccinated and spreading the virus through mucous, air born, how ever the virus is transmitted to another well its far more concentrated than a surface with trace amounts. As the virus requires a host.

Originally posted by Elliot
reply to post by Xiamara

 

Ah, yet again.
Everyone who does not want a vaccination is stupid.
What about freedom of choice?

Personally, I feel those who choose vaccination are intelligent and those who refuse are equally intelligent.

Yet why try to force your opinion on others?

We need to consider both sides of the story with reasonableness and then each to their own decision.

Someone is not MORE educated for accepting or refusing otherwise my GP, a very intelligent man would be considered uneducated because he refused vaccination for himself and his children.

You're also free to drive your car into a wall, jump off a building, or shoot yourself in the head. Although I wouldn't recommend any of them as a healthy choice.

The opinion is forced because someone NOT getting vaccinated puts every child under the age of 1 at risk of disease because they're aren't fully vaccinated.

Ok, I'm really leaving now. Have fun with all this.