You people do know the Bible says we don't go to heaven, or the lake of fire when we die, right?

reply to post by ellieN


We are in no position to question God, he is the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. I know it may seem bad at first, but those people were wicked! They were living wicked lives! So God utterly destroyed them.

reply to post by ellieN


Too bad Jehova's witness have no idea what god they are serving. There is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved! Jesus Christ!

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


I don't believe that, I just don't hang anyone who sins and breaks God's laws, cause it'll tempt me to do the same. I could careless what religion someone is, as long as they keep God's laws, statutes, commandments, holy days, and the faith in Jesus. This is what all the saints have in common.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


Yes they are..And we also talk at the grocery store. I worked with the lady for about 11 years. And gave her cutting of flowers and plants for her lawn. And when they visit my home they will talk about their doctrine, but then we talk about other things too.
But the thing is I was never in Her Kingdom Hall, it was a different one that I left. Maybe that is why we are friends.
She and her family like to visit me and we walk around in the yard and talk and laugh alot too.

I still enjoy reading the tracts that are left with me, as a matter of fact there is one here beside the computer. But..I must say that I also enjoy reading about other people's religions too. I have the Holy Qur'an also. I may not agree with all that I read from these different religions but it is good knowledge to know just the same.
I was turned on very vehemently when I told some people where I worked that I do have a copy of this.


I keep adding on....But to answer your question about is it different here..No, just this family and maybe because she and her family got to know me before she knew I was an ex. I once told a girl (JW) I worked with in another town , that I was an ex JW.. the poor child avoided me like the plaque, but worked and had fun with all the others who were in a different religion!!!

Yea well.. I just don't want people to think we pass onto the next life when the Bible says otherwise.

reply to post by HolyandClean


The Scriptures indeed in many places say that. Life after death is a man-made tradition. Especially of the Roman Catholic Jesuit conspiring Church that wanted to keep power. Most of what people think about hell is from Dante's Inferno and man made traditions. If you don't follow us (Catholicism) then you will go to hell! That sort of thing. HolyandClean is just trying to clear something up. Also remember in Revelation we read that:

Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The dead know not a thing. Sheol the grave and death and hell are the same. The Scriptures clearly teach that we are dead until Christ returns. Remember the mark of a false teacher is that they tell you things that make you feel good, and that you want to hear. In context of course. For the most part prophets taught repentance and woe. Also of the future Messianic Age and the coming Redeemer, but most of them focused on repentance.

In addition to that Satan is not some goat headed goatee red thing in the fiery pits of hell. He is the prince of the power of the air. He is free to roam for the most part even above our planet and beyond until the Great Tribulation when he is cast down to the Earth. These inter-dimensional, extra-terrestrial, heavenly beings that rebelled are fallen angels and Nephilim and demonic not aliens. Demons also seem to be different than fallen angels as well. Disembodied spirits if you will. Fallen angels are not tied to the Earth and can traverse the heavens and our atmosphere. Mars, The Moon, Jupiter, Saturn etc. We can't survive in space because of our physical nature. Its another story for these things. I'm of course referring to the other thread he started...

reply to post by yahushuasaves


I have seen fit to interpret death as described in the Bible as a spiritual where it applies. Such as the dead know nothing means (to me) that those without the guidance and faith in God are ignorant of truth.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

The passage where this is taken from simply suggests that after one's physical dead their relationship to the world is soon passed away. Try not to work for glory in life but only after righteousness and what is good.

Death being absence of knowledge of God we turn to Hell which is the abode of them who have died and know not God still. Everyone is judged and receive according to their works and death and Hell (no longer having need since all know God) are thrown away. What happens to those who once inhabited Hell is up to speculation.

Revelation 20:12-15
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

A false can be hard to distinguish, for some, because their teachings may be hard but still accepted though wrong. I suggest that one earnestly pour over one's own Bible and try to contemplate what it all means and then find one who teaches as you find truth to be while still continuing to read your Bible for yourself.

And about aliens and demons I cannot make a decision, I don't know everything. Though if they were to come and try to establish a government, philosophy, or religion omitting God I would not partake with them.

I interpret spiritually more than literally so obviously my views may be different to you. That doesn't make them better or worse if you interpret love still. Repentance must be had in all hearts and then will God erase one's sins.

May God bless you all.

reply to post by HolyandClean


Christianity has broken off into many different segments because of different interpretations of the scriptures.
This one, staying "dead" until judgment day, is Church of Christ, I believe. Maybe others.

Hebrews 11:39 and 40
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.



I am not here to argue with you, just making points that are very clear. Such as these Scriptures which state they will not be made perfect apart from us even today.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by HolyandClean

 

Christianity has broken off into many different segments because of different interpretations of the scriptures.
This one, staying "dead" until judgment day, is Church of Christ, I believe. Maybe others.

The only true church are the ones that keep God's commandments. There is no one religion that is God's true church.

reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus


Hell is the grave. Nobody passes on yet, and those scriptures you just posted prove what I am saying.

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus

 

Hell is the grave. Nobody passes on yet, and those scriptures you just posted prove what I am saying.

For most people, yes but there are a small proportion who do go to heaven and are in the temple as witnesses that will cause the flurry of activity with brings the downfall of this world's system. Those are the ones who met violent deaths for speaking the word of Jesus.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Psalm 115:17

King James Version (KJV)

17The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

The dead do not praise the Lord, so if anyone was in heaven, they would be praising God, would they not? Ok then.

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Psalm 115:17

King James Version (KJV)

17The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

The dead do not praise the Lord, so if anyone was in heaven, they would be praising God, would they not? Ok then.

No.
I said they were there to be witness against those who killed them and to call for their blood to be revenged.

reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus


Very much in relation to the OP:

What are your thoughts on the following:-

In Matthew....

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

The Old Testament in which "GOD" advocates the genocide of an entire race of people, the Old Testament that preaches abhorrent morals and ethics.

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19

Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

It seems that even the New Testament is fond of using such profound threats.

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Well i never did think "love thy enemy" was reasonable preaching but the above.....that's just awful.

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

In Mark....

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

How do you justify this dogma, this preaching? How do you pass Christ off as "all good". Surely you can't claim that this is simply "metaphorical" or "allegorical"?

How can you believe in damnation if you believe your God to be benevolent or merciful?

The constant need to ingest fear into people suggests to me that they don't have altruistic means of gaining support.

Why not do good instead of preaching fear? Obviously fear seems to be an effective means as gaining support or submission compared with being "good", but it would make us non-believers a little less concerned, and disgusted.

reply to post by jmdewey60


In that same manner Abel's blood cried out to God against Cain. Yet, the blood is not conscious like an entire human being would be. There would be no Resurrection if we all went to and afterlife when we died. The World To Come is the Messianic Kingdom on Earth with Christ as King, not when you die. Gehenna and hellfire show the punishment of the wicked as an example. The story of Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable much like the prodigal son and the lost sheep. He( Christ) knew what Jewish thought was at the time on the afterlife, and used it in a parable. In Old Testament times, Sheol was the grave and death. The dead do not praise Him neither do they know anything. Sleep is the best way to describe the condition of death.

reply to post by yahushuasaves
My posts on the subject is my reaction to people making divine pronouncements on this forum as if they solely speak for God.
I find that annoying, plus it is intellectually dishonest and chains God to a specific behavior and set of possible actions, all at the whim of this person playing the part of prophet. (see my thread on the fate of false teachers)

Any scripture is the word...

The word however is written by man... Man is in sin... SO are the words written.

You believe whatever you want, but to belief the written word of man has and will lead to dissapointment.

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare


God allows for the taking of Palestine by the Israelites because the inhabitant have we been so horribly sinful.
Leviticus 18:24-25
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

These cruelties were meant to teach men how to behave and see the ramification of sin upon them; though man refused to be learn in many examples.

Those who bear not good fruits are cast into the fire, to purge them of their evil deeds and turn to good deeds. I do not see the fire as Hell but rather the reaction of sin. Hell is death which is being absent from God's love, a position one is already in when one commits sin and refuses to do good.

Destroy both body and soul in Hell, here we come to the abode of Hell after life. I find this verse to reference to the magnificence of God's might and how He is able to do as He will to preserve those who are good but will not destroy them as is showed in the following verses.
Matthew 10:29-31
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Jesus Christ sending a sword simply means that His teachings will divide people and put them at odds with each other; whether it be at accepting it or interpreting it.

Matthew 11:20-24 just says what will befall the cities for their refusal to repent and love for sin. They shall receive such sin again at their own injury when they easily could have prevented it by becoming humble and forsaking their evil ways.

Matthew 15:4-6 talks about how the Pharisees have replaced commandment with tradition and would rather do that which was easy (washing their hands) than that which is hard (obeying the commandments of God). Do I believe that Jesus would want such children killed for disobedience? No, because remember the woman taking in adultery, how He did not condemn her when such should be killed too? Such is His mercy that He would rather people repent and learn from their mistakes than have to feel their own sin's wrath upon their own heads.

Jesus speaks in parables so that anyone will really wants to know what they mean may pursue after Him and learn it but they don't. They hear it and quickly forget about instead of seeking the truth that it relates.

I believe in damnation as a personal choice of each individual, as each one has committed so shall one receive.
Romans 2:5-15
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Obadiah 1:15
15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

But there is a better way.
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Mark 9:23
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.


It is not a need to ingest fear but rather to warn people that consequence of one's own sins can be horrible and dreadful and it is the people themselves who cause their own destruction.
Isaiah 30:20-21
20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
Jeremiah 5:31
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
Hosea 6:1
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.


Christians are also told to do good works, just some people like to think they can have faith in God but sin whenever they want and to their own lusty desires.
James 1:22-26
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
1 John 4:7-8
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Please excuse all the verses that littered at the end, but I am sure you are able to maintain yourself over it.
I look forward to your response, good sir.
May God bless you

reply to post by JeshurunAndronicus

25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

Here is a good example of why a certain cult of so-called Christians love the King James Bible.
Here is the literal translation from the Hebrew:
"has become the land have brought punishment and out the land inhabitants."
You could possibly turn it around to where the land itself makes its inhabitants evil.
Thinking you have all the answers because of a particular book is what Jesus was against when he was on Earth.