You people do know the Bible says we don't go to heaven, or the lake of fire when we die, right?

Remember when Jesus died and resurrected, His whole body went with him? If people pass on to heaven, or the lake of fire, their bodies should go with them! So we shouldn't even need to bury them. Haven't you all ever wondered if something was wrong with that belief? Let's look at the scriptures.

John 3:13

King James Version (KJV)

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

No man has ever went to heaven, except the one that came down from heaven, Jesus Christ! So what happens to the dead, when they die?

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

King James Version (KJV)

5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

According to this, the dead don't even know they are dead! Everything they ever were, or ever going to be.. gone..

Ecclesiastes 9:10

King James Version (KJV)

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

There is NO WISDOM in the grave when you die. So what are the dead doing? They are "sleeping", at least this is what Jesus called it.

John 11:11-14

King James Version (KJV)

11These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

The book of Daniel also calls this sleep.

Daniel 12:2
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Alright, here is how it works. Your being is made up of two parts. A. Body or the Soul. and B. The Breath of life God gave you. How do I know this? Keep reading.

Genesis 2:7
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

What was Adam before God breathed in that breath of life into him? He was a dead soul. Now that you know all of that, when we die, our bodies, or souls return to dust. That breath of life God gave you returns to him. Read the next few scriptures.

Psalm 146:4

King James Version (KJV)

4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

His breath returns to God, he returns to the earth, in that VERY DAY his thoughts perish when died. This is our punishment for sin! Death! God told Adam his soul would return to the ground, or to the dust.

Genesis 3:19

King James Version (KJV)

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Basically, anyone who has ever died is in a deep sleep right now. It's kind of like before you were born. You had no thought process at all, no consciousness to speak of. You didn't KNOW anything. I'm not trying to scare anyone, i'm just trying to wake people up! Going to heaven, and the lake of fire are reserved for the end. The lake of fire is going to be created at Jesus's 2nd coming! The first two people to go into the fire are the beast and the false prophet.

Umm, then I'm gonna play the stupid one here. Where are we going then ?

I'm immediately skeptical of anyone offering to "wake me up", because they arrogantly presume I'm asleep. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by HolyandClean
Remember when Jesus died and resurrected, His whole body went with him?

Yes, but it was transformed into an immortal body. Paul explained in 1 Cor. 15 that just as the seed one sows is nothing like the plant that grows out of it, so also the body that dies and decays is nothing like the body it will be transformed into. Only the immortal can enter heaven, which is why the bodies of the righteous dead remain in the ground but their spirits go immediately to heaven. When the dead rise, it will be their old bodies being transformed. So unless you've seen a Christian's body disappear the moment they die, I'd say we still better bury them.

No man has ever went to heaven, except the one that came down from heaven, Jesus Christ! So what happens to the dead, when they die?

This was before the cross, when the dead all went to Sheol, a place divided into two parts for the righteous and the unrighteous, per Jesus' account of the rich man and Lazarus. The good side was Paradise, which Jesus promised to the man on the cross. Afterwards, Jesus took the righteous dead with him to heaven, such that Paul could later say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

This also renders the OT references moot, since things changed after Jesus arose.

Basically, anyone who has ever died is in a deep sleep right now.

"Soul sleep" is not a new teaching at all, but I still don't see it supported by the NT.

One of my more annoying friends in middle school used to preach to me. I don't know if its relevant or not, but I remember him telling me that, according to his beliefs, peoples' awareness/consciousness/whatever goes into a coma like you would expect to at death... but THEN "awaken" at Judgment Day and go to their respective abodes, lol.

You're clearly very ignorant on the subject of biblical theology. I suggest you look at all of these verses in their full context and also take into consideration that the bible was originally written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic so English translations often lack the perfect tense.

I don't know what you were thinking trying to tell people when they die they're not going to heaven.
Do you have a death wish?
And if you're going to claim something like that, don't try to use bible passages, yeesh - you're just inviting abuse. No matter what you say about the bible, or what passages you quote, if people don't agree they're going to have an answer.

Personally, I do agree, death is just dreamless sleep.
Death is Absense of life.
We bury the dead cause all kinds of diseases grow on a corpse.

I won't see any of you on the other side.

And before any of you attack me, I'm entitled to my wrong opinion, and so are you.

reply to post by HolyandClean


I do believe the last pope, John Paul II, before he died said heaven & hell don't exist, rather they are a state of mind

www.freerepublic.com...

I understand where you are going.

It's very hard to parse the Bible.

Context is really everything.

Also there are many varying views on this.

Scriptures only people. I don't care what you believe, I only care what the scriptures say.

From what I understand in my readings, I think the OP is referring to how people die and all remain dead until "Judgement Day." It is then that they are all brought back to life so to speak and then THAT is when heaven or hell is decided.

reply to post by SaberTruth


When the master says nobody goes to heaven, that's exactly what he means.

Why would Jesus need to come back and raise the dead if they are already in heaven? Makes no sense.

Be wary of all threads containing, "You people do know ________ right?"

You people do know that these "Aliens" or "UFOs" are in reality demonic spirits?

55 pages....

reply to post by HolyandClean


I'm not telling you what I believe. I'm asking you to not be ignorant and to look at the scriptures in their full context to understand and actually know what the verses really mean. Anyone can take many single verses out of there context and make it mean whatever they want to. But now I'm getting more of a stupidity vibe rather than ignorance.

Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by SaberTruth

 

When the master says nobody goes to heaven, that's exactly what he means.

Why would Jesus need to come back and raise the dead if they are already in heaven? Makes no sense.

To get their new bodies, as I explained.

As a wise person once said, "A text without a context is a pretext for a prooftext".

Originally posted by Forevever
Be wary of all threads containing, "You people do know ________ right?"

You people do know that these "Aliens" or "UFOs" are in reality demonic spirits?

55 pages....

Wow, way to come in here and derail the thread with something completely off-topic. Congrats.

Originally posted by Diplomat

Originally posted by Forevever
Be wary of all threads containing, "You people do know ________ right?"

You people do know that these "Aliens" or "UFOs" are in reality demonic spirits?

55 pages....

Wow, way to come in here and derail the thread with something completely off-topic. Congrats.

I stand by my opinion that you're cranky

again I say, PEACE MAN, PEACE

I'll see you on page 55

reply to post by SaberTruth


Show me scripture, or this debate is finished.

Originally posted by Diplomat

Originally posted by Forevever
Be wary of all threads containing, "You people do know ________ right?"

You people do know that these "Aliens" or "UFOs" are in reality demonic spirits?

55 pages....

Wow, way to come in here and derail the thread with something completely off-topic. Congrats.

I think they're pointing out that this is another thread title posted by the same kid implying that he likes to arrogantly start thread titles that begin with "You people do know __ right?"

1 Thessalonians 4:13-16

King James Version (KJV)

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Paul called them asleep too, you going to call him a liar, like you called Jesus a liar too?

You do know that you are in no position to lecture anyone else as to the absolute truths of our existence, right?