Its happend before, so why not now?

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
What I have witnessed is 99% most likely cloud seeding but to me that should be reported to the public.

Reported in what way? And why?

Something like this (contains video of cloud seeding)?

www.clipsyndicate.com...

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

What I have witnessed is 99% most likely cloud seeding but to me that should be reported to the public. I go to my lake to get clean air away from the city and have no desire to breath in silver iodide while there.

Where do you live (state?) And how often do you see this 'cloud seeding'?

Most people seem to define 'chemtrails' as the majority of the 'lines' we see behind planes in the sky.

I'm not going into a big cloud seeding debate on this thread as it is not this thread purpose. I will post my observation but will not debate it here. Post on that thread in regards to it if you like.

Location: Manitoba, Canada. Lake Wanipigow

This would be my first post on chemtrails and I'm a believer.

I spent some time at the cottage this week, wed&thur, and witnessed a scene I have seen play out over and over again for years now. On thursday afternoon two planes making X marks in the sky which spread out into cloud cover in a matter of hours. These planes have the ability to turn off the trails obviously since they will make 2-3 X's in a large portion of sky and then are gone back to the city without a trail to be seen in the sky. A blue sky forecast turns to cloud cover and rain.

Its been raining since friday night.

I simply cannot deny what I have seen with my own eyes for years now..

ATS

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


cloud seeding does not create clouds on a clear day.

it "seeds" clouds that already exist. So what you say was likely not 'cloud seeding'.

planes do tend to release exhaust, as do all internal combustion engines.

are you sure the forcast was for a clear day?

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Here's some cloud seeding in Alberta. Check out the video of seeding at around 2:25. Does this look like what you saw?

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


The X is caused by the airplanes flying through a patch of the atmosphere that has the conditions necessary for contrail formation, one going north/south the other east/west, as is common with flightpaths. It sure as heck wasn't cloud seeding. You do realize that the atmosphere is not homogenous?

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

The X is caused by the airplanes flying through a patch of the atmosphere that has the conditions necessary for contrail formation, one going north/south the other east/west, as is common with flightpaths.

Question.... 2 days in a row it's 95 degrees, 60% humidity, dew point 50 let's say.....
One day, persistent jet trails lingering for hours as they pan across the sky.
Next day same conditions, no persistent trails. Same flight plans, same conditions, why not trails both days?

I know it's not just about temperature, I factor in humidity and dew point also. I watch them through binoculars, and I see 2 different patterns. Some at same altitudes leave jet trails, some don't, from my perspective they are approx. the same altitude.

I also remember my area back 30 years ago and compare it to today's patterns.... very very different. More flights is a bunk statement. So unless all flight altitudes have changed since the early 90s or so, there is something "new" happening compared to previous decades of visual observation. Test samples are nearly impossible to obtain that can't be debunked... one needs to capture samples right behind these planes fresh.

Took the time to watch the cloud seeding vids and I can honestly say thats not what I saw. Let me be clear on one thing though. I watch the planes, always 2 of them, arrive and do their dance making parrallel lines and X's in the sky and then watch them leave again back towards Winnipeg. I see the planes the whole time and when they arrive they left no trail of where they came from and when they leave they also leave no trail.

The behaviour always ends up shifting the weather to rain from a forcast of clear skies. I have witnessed this behaviour soo many times I just can't deny it.

How do you explain two planes that show up in a area just to make marks in the sky?

Originally posted by JibbyJedi

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

The X is caused by the airplanes flying through a patch of the atmosphere that has the conditions necessary for contrail formation, one going north/south the other east/west, as is common with flightpaths.

Question.... 2 days in a row it's 95 degrees, 60% humidity, dew point 50 let's say.....
One day, persistent jet trails lingering for hours as they pan across the sky.
Next day same conditions, no persistent trails. Same flight plans, same conditions, why not trails both days?

Maybe because the conditions at 35,000 feet are different from the conditions on the ground?

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Next time you see them, jump on www.flightaware.com. You might find that they are just ordinary passenger jets.

My explanation? You're mistaken.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi

Question.... 2 days in a row it's 95 degrees, 60% humidity, dew point 50 let's say.....
One day, persistent jet trails lingering for hours as they pan across the sky.
Next day same conditions, no persistent trails. Same flight plans, same conditions, why not trails both days?

I know it's not just about temperature, I factor in humidity and dew point also. I watch them through binoculars, and I see 2 different patterns. Some at same altitudes leave jet trails, some don't, from my perspective they are approx. the same altitude.

All it takes is 1,000 feet, and you can't tell the difference between 33,000 and 34,000 feet, especially if the planes are different sizes.

I also remember my area back 30 years ago and compare it to today's patterns.... very very different. More flights is a bunk statement. So unless all flight altitudes have changed since the early 90s or so, there is something "new" happening compared to previous decades of visual observation.

Maybe there are new routes over your area? In the decade after the 1978 Airline Deregulation act there was an increase in direct routes between cities that were previously not connected.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Took the time to watch the cloud seeding vids and I can honestly say thats not what I saw. Let me be clear on one thing though. I watch the planes, always 2 of them, arrive and do their dance making parrallel lines and X's in the sky and then watch them leave again back towards Winnipeg. I see the planes the whole time and when they arrive they left no trail of where they came from and when they leave they also leave no trail.

The behaviour always ends up shifting the weather to rain from a forcast of clear skies. I have witnessed this behaviour soo many times I just can't deny it.

How do you explain two planes that show up in a area just to make marks in the sky?

Possibly pilot training. They have to train somewhere.

The reason people see contrails and then a change in the weather is that contrails show up around the edge of a weather system due to the increased humidity aloft. Particularly with a warm front.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d053cdb78c11.jpg[/atsimg]
See where the cirrus clouds (Ci) are forming there? Ahead of that there will be a region where contrails form. Then later the rest of the front will follow, first the true cirrus, then Altostratus, then eventually rain.

The contrails are not causing the weather. They are just an advance indicator.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Next time you see them, jump on www.flightaware.com. You might find that they are just ordinary passenger jets.

My explanation? You're mistaken.

edit on 6/12/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

I will have to continue to believe what I have seen with my own eyes for years now. Passenger jets don't take people on liesure flights up north and then back to Winnipeg.

Again, I see when they arrive and watch them leave.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Took the time to watch the cloud seeding vids and I can honestly say thats not what I saw. Let me be clear on one thing though. I watch the planes, always 2 of them, arrive and do their dance making parrallel lines and X's in the sky and then watch them leave again back towards Winnipeg. I see the planes the whole time and when they arrive they left no trail of where they came from and when they leave they also leave no trail.

The behaviour always ends up shifting the weather to rain from a forcast of clear skies. I have witnessed this behaviour soo many times I just can't deny it.

How do you explain two planes that show up in a area just to make marks in the sky?

Possibly pilot training. They have to train somewhere.

The reason people see contrails and then a change in the weather is that contrails show up around the edge of a weather system due to the increased humidity aloft. Particularly with a warm front.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d053cdb78c11.jpg[/atsimg]
See where the cirrus clouds (Ci) are forming there? Ahead of that there will be a region where contrails form. Then later the rest of the front will follow, first the true cirrus, then Altostratus, then eventually rain.

The contrails are not causing the weather. They are just an advance indicator.

edit on 12-6-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)

Please remember I don't doubt your science or knowledge of clouds and weather etc, but the forcast for the weekend I mentioned were clear skies all through the weekend and into the next week.

If weather forcasts can be that wrong, off by week, it sure doesn't say much for meteorological science.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Next time you see them, jump on www.flightaware.com. You might find that they are just ordinary passenger jets.

My explanation? You're mistaken.

edit on 6/12/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

I will have to continue to believe what I have seen with my own eyes for years now. Passenger jets don't take people on liesure flights up north and then back to Winnipeg.

Again, I see when they arrive and watch them leave.

Some flights like that might still show up on Flightaware, see this one for example:

contrailscience.com...

Also, try search Wolfram Alpha for "planes visible from winnipeg" (or wherever)

www.wolframalpha.com...

Amusingly the one over Winnipeg right now is Evergreen International, flight 876

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Again, you are probably mistaken. Hard to believe the government would want to chemtrail your area exclusively, since they aren't chemtrailing mine. Or maybe the conditions aren't right for contrail formation here. Hmmm. Something to think about?

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Has your experience been that weather forecasts have always been correct? Because that's certainly not been my experience.

Nowadays they even give percentages, as they admit they can't really forecast with certainty.

I would highly recommend you look at a satellite photo to get a good overview. Can you think of a date where you saw this contrails-then-rain?

Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Has your experience been that weather forecasts have always been correct? Because that's certainly not been my experience.

Nowadays they even give percentages, as they admit they can't really forecast with certainty.

I would highly recommend you look at a satellite photo to get a good overview. Can you think of a date where you saw this contrails-then-rain?

edit on 12-6-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)

I believe the date was May 12th,2011. I have no idea were to find a archived sat photo though.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Again, you are probably mistaken. Hard to believe the government would want to chemtrail your area exclusively, since they aren't chemtrailing mine. Or maybe the conditions aren't right for contrail formation here. Hmmm. Something to think about?

I very well may be mistaken but I think if you spent your whole life somewhere and witnessed these occurrences for enough years, after the absense of them when you were younger, you would believe something is going like I and everyone else up there.

I truly want to know what I keep seeing. Maybe it is pilot training and they are fond of parrallel lines and big X's just for giggles to mess with us on the ground.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Here:

rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov...

And weather to the south

rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Looks just like a whole bunch of cloud that day.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
I truly want to know what I keep seeing. Maybe it is pilot training and they are fond of parrallel lines and big X's just for giggles to mess with us on the ground.

Pilots have to fly in various patterns as part of their training, or just for exercises. Then there's AWACS.

Do you have photos? Maybe one of the pilots here can explain it.

Alternately, draw a sketch of what the patterns were.