The Destruction of Human History....

We're still being uncivilized apes, except now we have lasers and nuclear weapons. I guess that's the way we were built...

Star and Flag , great subject as always Slayer.

All of your examples are a great loss but the one that makes me the most "wistful" is the library of Alexandria. We are so much poorer as a race because of its destruction.

Yet we have not learned out lesson, people still burn books and there are "banned" reading lists. On this very site you have posts where people call out religion "X" and for its teachings to be destroyed, or that people group "x" are -unnatural-and their amorphous "agenda" must be stopped.

Something else we should all be concerned about today is the spreading of what I would call "subjective reality". I won't get into my thoughts on this to much but you also see that a great deal on this site. Worldviews that present belief as fact.

But more on topic with your thread I would have to say this, many times I watch a documentary about the past and narrator will make some comment or the other that makes me cringe/laugh. Many have a mindset that what was in the past was inferior to what we have today or that concepts that we deal with today are beyond our ancestors. My take is that knowledge knows no time, it can be lost or found at any time, the realities of our universe have always been waiting to be discovered and exsist wether we know about them or not.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer, you always produce such wonderful threads, and this one is no exception. As a student of history, who leans primarily toward recreating things that have been lost, it is often amazing to me that people assume that we have lost "everything in the way of knowledge" We really havent. An example, I once had a history teacher tell me that Mel Gibson could NEVER have made the ax throw and killed the british soldier in the movie "Patriot". When I laughed at him, he told me to prove it was possible- I did. Why, because I had spent the time to go back and follow as much of the old information I could get ahold of about technique, and axe structure, if I had been able to get ahold of even some of the information thats been lost over the years, my distance would have been even better.

Yes, because of humankinds indescretions, we have lost so much knowledge that we cant even imagine some of the techniques, and inventions of the past. But, we are not so different as our ancestors. Someone stated that the world would descend into the dark ages again at some point in time, I think they are wrong, there are enough of us out there that information will be passed. I am just guessing that even though they had an oral tradition, that some of the druids survived, otherwise we would never know they existed, nor anything at all about them.

the loss of our great libraries, intellectual cities, and wonders of the world is heartbreaking, but there are people out there like me who worm thier way through the bits and peices that are left to find the truth, or as close an apporximation as we can get, thereby carrying that knowledge within. But, we must not forget to pass it on, and not keep it horded for ourselves. That in its self has been our intellectual downfall, expansion of knowledge will be the manner in which our world becomes enlightened.

reply to post by xynephadyn


I'm thinking that they have a lot of stuff locked away in the Vatican, I'm hoping so at least...so maybe one day we will gain greater insight into the past.

Originally posted by Rossa
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

As a student of history, who leans primarily toward recreating things that have been lost, it is often amazing to me that people assume that we have lost "everything in the way of knowledge" We really havent......


the loss of our great libraries, intellectual cities, and wonders of the world is heartbreaking, but there are people out there like me who worm thier way through the bits and peices that are left to find the truth, or as close an apporximation as we can get, thereby carrying that knowledge within. But, we must not forget to pass it on, and not keep it horded for ourselves. That in its self has been our intellectual downfall, expansion of knowledge will be the manner in which our world becomes enlightened

Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I can appreciate the effort of those who whole heartily take the time to meticulously go through the pieces and attempt to reconstruct how things were once upon a time, however....

What I wonder about is not just the "knowledge" saved/copied/reconstructed but the context of the source material of that knowledge. It is one thing to have an ancient scribe copy the knowledge of any given Document or map....

But where did that knowledge originate and by whom? Context. For example: If an ancient scribe copied E=MC2 from a 1,000 year old document from Greece in the year 700AD. Well I'd say OK cool. But what if they were copying a badly made copy? Or worse, the documents they were copying were 3,000 year old and from say Per-Dynastic Egypt -Nubian Ethiopia?

The Scribe during that period wouldn't have the technology to know just how old that document was and it's source. Sure copying the information is important but Context of the document itself is Key.

I didnt read the entire thread but when I saw the map with the Nile I thought about the High Dam at Aswan. When the Dam was built the country of Nubia was flooded, destroying archeological sites as well as monuments. Who knows what is forever lost behind that 225 foot dam.

shazlyasmail.tripod.com...

reply to post by Kandinsky


As always very interesting

I remember having a sinking feeling while in my early years of school while studying that part of Germany's history with the Nazis. Sad. That is a wonderful example of how things can get out of hand even in our supposedly modern world. For those who think that period was a long time ago and isn't relevant to 2011. Keep in mind it was only one, possibly two generations ago. Many are still alive from that period. They themselves remember it as if it was only yesterday. We haven't really advanced all that much from that period. We just simply rely more on a microchips now more so than books.

Which brings us to our modern way of storing data. We could potentially lose our knowledge due to the fact that more and more of it is now being stored digitally in the virtual world. Books/papers rot away or deteriorate in time etc, Magnetic recording devices lose the data due to the tapes losing magnetism etc, Film deteriorates in a few decades. The older recordings due to cellulose degradation etc. Should we go back to imprinting data on stone tablets like Mesopotamia?

I find that Stings song "History will teach us nothing" is a very nice piece of music to go with this thread...

History will teach us nothing

If we seek solace in the prisons of the distant past
Security in human systems we're told will always, always last
Emotions are the sail and blind faith is the mast
Without the breath of real freedom we're getting nowhere fast
If God is dead and an actor plays his part
His words of fear will find their way to a place in your heart
Without the voice of reason every faith is its own curse
Without freedom from the past things can only get worse

Sooner or later just like the world first day
Sooner or later we learn to throw the past away
Sooner or later just like the world first day
Sooner or later we learn to throw the past away
Sooner or later we learn to throw the past away

Our written history is a catalogue of crime
The sordid and the powerful, the architects of time
The mother of invention, the oppression of the mild
The constant fear of scarcity, aggression as its child

Sooner or later
Sooner or later
Sooner or later
Sooner or later

Convince an enemy, convince him that he's wrong
Is to win a bloodless battle where victory is long
A simple act of faith
In reason over might
To blow up his children will only prove him right
History will teach us nothing

Sooner or later just like the world first day
Sooner or later we learn to throw the past away
Sooner or later just like the world first day
Sooner or later we learn to throw the past away
Sooner or later we learn to throw the past away

History will teach us nothing
History will teach us nothing

Know your human rights
Be what you come here for
Know your human rights
Be what you come here for
Know your human rights
Be what you come here for
Know your human rights
Be what you come here for

Trying to catch up to the discussion in progress, hope I'm not repeating what someone else may have already mentioned.

Don't know if anyone's familiar with Anatoly Fomenko's (7 volume) "History: Fiction or Science" (HFOS) but if you're interested in "missing history" and what amounts to a "chronology conspiracy" you might want to check this out. Fomenko's graphs, plates and illustrations are worth the price of the book. Don't speak Russian? Not a problem, Volumes 1 & 2 have been translated and published in English. Fomenko is a member of the Russian Academy of Science, trained as a mathematician, and author of a number of books on the "empirico-statistical method," which he applies to conventional chronology (sometimes called New Chronology).

To make a long story short (but not as long as we thought), Fomenko has come to the conclusion that over 1,000 years have been inadvertently or deliberately "added" to our current dating system. Put another way, we are over 1,000 years "closer" to the year "zero" than we've been led to believe by the consensual global (Scaligerian) chronology of history taught in school and university. Josephus Justus Scaliger (1540-1609), btw, is generally considered to be "the founder of modern chronology as a science." (Vol. 1, Chapter 1, Page 1, HFOS)

"One is to bear in mind," Fomenko writes, "that the 'secular' chronology of the present days is largely based on the scholastic biblical chronology of the Middle Ages" (Page 2). Meaning, the dating of the pyramids and the Exodus, among other things, adopted by "secular" scholars as "baseline" dates, are in fact based on a literal interpretation of the Bible.

Lost history, embellished history, fraudulent history and cover-up IS the history of the human race. History, as a "science," didn't even begin until the 17th century. Think about that. Fomenko quotes another scholar (which I can't seem to find at the moment) more or less saying that everything earlier than 1,000AD is lost in a fog of uncertainty, or words to that affect. Time after time what we think we know about Greek and Roman history was "discovered" during the Middle Ages, a thousand years after the fact, with the help of a mysterious nameless monk in a remote abbey among piles of forgotten manuscripts. Transcribed into Latin, the originals had the bad habit of becoming inexplicably "lost."

A fascinating "must read" for alternative history buffs. What we don't know is more than you thought, which is bad enough. We don't even know what we think we know.

reply to post by Klassified


I have heard of Spanish Cargo manifests being searched by treasure hunters that were in the
Vatican library. They were full of worm holes and the pages looked like Swiss cheese when
the pages were turned. Of course gold was found in sunken ships

Don't hold on to the thought that the Vatican has that good of sources.
Of better kept records are not the ones in the Vatican as they are too valuable.

As the soldiers of King Carlos were on their way to find the rest of the gold being
skimmed off and buried around New Mexico (a good reason we took it away from Mexico)
all involved took off to France leaving much still buried.
As Bill Lyne once suggested the Victorio Peak
www.theoutlaws.com...
is probably on some map and even some Nazi notable cared to take some.

Meaning its a sure thing and pre Colombian and ancient gold traffic up to the fall
of Rome might have been involved. Columbus was after the gold of Mexico and
New Mexico which the ancients had plundered and the reason the natives got
there in the first place not being found for 1000 years. In 1000 years they lost
communication and education as the ancients developed into the AD world and
became savages but they had good food which untimely saved Europe and the
rest of the world and still does today.

More ancient history sure to be in a Lyne publication whenever the cartels give up on
getting the gold themselves and trashing normal work with alien lies.
The best knowledge is working knowledge as St. Thomas was a mason and built
various churches and you got the two best professions right there. Double threat.
Perhaps the only professions unconcerned with the dealings of the cunning powers
that hide facts and tell stories we should not believe.

Originally posted by chrismicha77
I know the Vatican has a treasure trove of documents/literature that they keep away from the puplic knowledge. Imagine what you could find out if it weren't under wraps.

There has to be a lot of unimportant ones as well as I did wonder about the footnotes on a
book from 1908 about Jewish traditions that became the workings of Christianity.
Things like the three aspects of God in Jewish lore that became the Trinity.

I often wondered if the Vatican might have the old references but think now there was a better
chance to try Jewish libraries.

Ed: And don't forget about the classified document vaults in Universities for Doctoral studies
that Bill Lyne had discovered. How many Universities and classified vaults are there.
This just for historical documents.

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel


That is some list of banned books. It is ridiculous to think that instead of reading books and explaining what is happening in books and having a discussion about the content of books, it is easier to ban them.

The reasons that are listed have to be some of the most ridiculous I have ever seen.

I find it appalling "The Diary of a Young Girl," Anne Frank was banned. I remember reading this when I was a young child and having my eyes opened to the world that existed out there and that there were truly evil people in the world. I did not come away thinking of “sexual explicit” or “homosexual” themes, as a mater of fact if there were any, they escaped me (even now those are not the memories I have of reading the book) as it was the horror of what transpired that has stayed with me, even years after reading the book.

As for the rest of the books, I hope that anyone who was denied the privilege of reading anything, take the time to later read them in life to gain a perspective on what is being suppressed.

Great thread!

I love things like this!

The Library of Alexandria gets my mind thinking I like to wonder what kind of knowledge was in there and now it's gone and you are right history is written by the victor so it really makes you wonder what is true and how true everything really is. I know I question everything personally. There is always two sides to a story.

The destruction of our history in so many places makes me wonder if it's on purpose.

You mentioned the one thing I want to go back in time and see and that is how they built the pyramids and their intended purpose because I don't know if I fully believe they were built as a burial tomb.

As for the statues that were blown up because they didn't fit their religious beliefs well that is what religion will do to you. Its sad because those statues were also their own history but their brainwashed minds couldn't see that. You would think they would have respected them.


Another place I would love to know it's meaning behind is Puma Punku! That is one amazing place and how the heck did they build it and what was it originally? No matter how you look at it they had some advanced knowledge whether it be technology or their own methods when it came to building that place, same with the Egytptians. What boggles my mind is that we cant replicate those places not even with all the technology we have now..Really makes you think.

I love ancient civliizations and people like the Mayans, Incas, Olmecs and so on. We only have so much to go on to piece together an entire civilization that each lasted for hundreds if not thousands of years. It makes you wonder how much we don't know and have yet to find out. It can make you go crazy if you think about it

reply to post by SLAYER69


Great thread! S&F

The library at Alexandria has always been a favorite topic for me. Any knowledge lost will eventually come to the fore again through other means, IMO.

One author who does an excellent job exploring ancient knowledge using many different texts is Dr Joseph P Farrell. Two books you may wish to explore in this regard are:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307729804&sr=1-7

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307729804&sr=1-1

A fantastic interview on Coast to Coast about his most recent book is available at:

Thanks Slayer for posting this awesome thread! I gave you a flag, and would give you a start but haven't figured out how to do that yet (or even if I can as a new member). It is indeed depressing to think of all of the information that has been lost throughout the years. What is even sadder, is that even if we did have more information in the form of past records and treasures (etc), we will still never get a true sense of what the world was like in the distant past. We can only analyze what the remains of ancient cultures through the lense of our modern perceptions and ideas. We project our own concepts of what is significant, relevant, or valued onto cultures of the distant past.

With that being said, we can however get "closer" to a more accurate idea of what the past was like. What upsets me the most is that today, is that many researchers often inadvertently assume that ancient man was not as intellegent, sophisticated, and cultured as we are today. It is seriously outrageous, and I know that most of you out there would agree! If you watch documentaries on TV, the researchers always allude to the idea that the ancients did not understand their world and had to cloak their ideas in myth and legend. I say BS.

I have always been fascinated with the story of Atlantis. Many modern scholars brush the story off as a creative work of Plato. However if I remember correctly (and please correct me if I am wrong), Plato was relating a story that was told by the Greek patriarch Solon after his trip to Egypt. In addition, Greek records (such as Herodotus) tell us that there were naval expeditions into the Atlantic by Phoenicians as early as 610-595BC. Why would academia catagorize the research of such records as "pseudo-historical" research?

I agree with you all that the world has so much more history than we may ever know, but it is great to see on forums like this that people actually care about what has happened in the past and how it is interpreted today. I look forward to reading more threads like this!

Cheers!

reply to post by SLAYER69


The Nazis Germany had plenty of money for some ultimate project as the cost of troops
and machines had to pay off with more than plundered gold. The Electronics development
seemed especially well developed for radio, TV and aviation and navigation and radar.
Was there an oil less energy source being sought that many would want and others would
like to stop. We can't even say if history proves much of what we hold true from 1945.
Hitlers body. The ancients would be ashamed we could not figure that one out.
Atomic bomb production under Nazi Germany is another one. There are no records there
because some one does not want us to have any. We have more ancient records than
those taken from Germany and Tesla that can tell us more except for CIA alien writers
expounding on events we should know because they say so. The ancients records we
have are not even told with any great accuracy according to Velikovsky in his follow
on publications.

reply to post by StealthyKat


We have a friend that is a ex priest turned world renowned archaeologist friend and he said that we not only went into Iraq for the oil but it was whispered in the archaeology community they had made recent discoveries in Iraq that would completely rewrite our history books...............and TPTB, don't want that.

He also said there was proof of reptilian alien artifacts that the US Government did not want to become public knowledge.

Every once in a while when the hairless bipedal slave monkies get too smart, their numbers are culled and their DNA tweaked to keep them in line.

Now, do I actually believe this?

Don't know, just throwing what I have heard and read and researched out there.

I think that to invade another country and to horde and hide ancient artifacts that the entire world should be allowed to share is wrong. Why hide stuff?

Is anyone aware of what is down in the Vatican Vaults or the Queen of England's tunnels?

Knowledge is power, he who controls the knowledge holds power over all the people, because without a total picture of where we have come from we have no idea where we are headed.

A closed mind and a arrogant heart gathers no knowledge - Ofhumandescent.

The older I get the more I realize the less I know and often wonder what our real history and real potential as a species are?

reply to post by Helmkat


America................you can't even get the movie Wolf Summer/ Ulvesommer in America.

Here in America so many of the foreign films are not allowed into our country period.

Don't get me going on that one.



I'de like to see this movie because when I was around 11 I met a wild wolf and he let me pet him and scratch his belly.............a truly spiritual experience.

If anyone has a copy u2u me or tell me where I can get a copy.

I will buy it only legally. So mods please do not delete.

America a free country.......................hardly.

Hollywood frap is mostly what we are spoon fed.

reply to post by Aprch


Scary huh! Here we are a planet with weapons of mass destruction and people still living in caves, wearing turbins, dressing like 3,000 years ago and mindsets to match.

Leaders that are corrupt to the core, bent on only power and profit with no regard for humanity.

Very scary indeed.

Question is who are the real puppet masters and why is humanity being kept in the dark about our true history and potential?

Don't forget "The Burning of the Books and Burying of the Scholars":

Burning of the books and burying of the scholars (traditional Chinese: 焚書坑儒 simplified Chinese: 焚书坑儒; pinyin: Fénshū Kēngrú) is a phrase that refers to a policy and a sequence of events in the Qin Dynasty of Ancient China, between the period of 213 and 206 BC....According to the Records of the Grand Historian, after Qin Shi Huang, the first emperor of China, unified China in 221 BC, his chancellor Li Si suggested suppressing the intellectual discourse to unify all thoughts and political opinions. This was justified by accusations that the intelligentsia sang false praise and raised dissent through libel.

Beginning in 213 BC, all classic works of the Hundred Schools of Thought — except those from Li Si's own school of philosophy known as legalism — were subject to book burning.

Qin Shi Huang burned the other histories out of fear that they undermined his legitimacy, and wrote his own history books. Afterwards, Li Si took his place in this area.

Li Si proposed that all histories in the imperial archives except those written by the Qin historians be burned; that the Classic of Poetry, the Classic of History, and works by scholars of different schools be handed in to the local authorities for burning; that anyone discussing these two particular books be executed; that those using ancient examples to satirize contemporary politics be put to death, along with their families; that authorities who failed to report cases that came to their attention were equally guilty; and that those who had not burned the listed books within 30 days of the decree were to be banished to the north as convicts working on building the Great Wall.

More at source...