North China is dying...and the solution that may scar a planet.

Originally posted by Maikel69
Humanity needs to give up all mass production containing any sort of pollution for the future of mankind. If we live in a more natural, unchemically dependent nature, this planet would reward us rather than throw us around like a rag doll.

Ok, you be the first to give up your toothbrush, your shampoo and toothpaste, your computer, your dishwasher and dish soap, etc. Get my meaning? Or we could all learn to eat off of plates and bowls made of dry leaves, like they do in India, and eat with your fingers so you don't have to wash any silverware. Sure, let's all go primitive. That means no dentistry, no offices, no air conditioning. I wish people would think before talking about going back to nature.

reply to post by GhostR1der

China's biggest problem is social organization. The family is the most important unit in the country, as it is everywhere, really, but in China there has never been a successful attempt to create a dependable social organization that would supplant the social security system of last resort, i.e., making babies.

The Chinese are really up against the wall. They must create a dependable legal system that is rationalized and that conforms to world standards and that applies to everybody. They are still struggling with that.

China is administered by militarists. That is a huge problem, but even worse, China is ruled by it's own traditional ways. They need to find a middle way between "every family for itself" and being jerked around by the conformity police on neighborhood watch.

Having said that, China can see chinese people doing things a little differently in Hong Kong and being successful. They are taking note.

Chinese people around the world have created prosperous communities. When given the opportunity to "operate" within a social organization created by someone else, they can do it. China's number one problem is that they need to create a viable social organization of their own. The Communist Party of China needs a "loyal opposition", The Plan B Communist Party of China.

Something has to be done along those lines.

Historically the chinese have always been too polite or too rude. As a society they need to learn to walk in the space between those extremes. When they do, they will solve their problems intelligently.

Originally posted by AuranVector
reply to post by loam

 

S&F for catching my attention. I hope people here understand that this a a preview of what will happen in the rest of the world in time. China has over a billion people and they're thinking of easing their birth control policies!

The world is over-populated and over-industrialized. We are killing our planet.

Maurice Strong is looking for someone like you to run the UN Agenda 21.

reply to post by loam


A war against nature? Isn't a war against nature to control the flow of electricity?

No offense, but that is one of the most absurd claims I have ever heard.

We control nature all the time, electricity, heat, light, sound. These are all part of nature, people think that jungles and rivers are nature, that can't be further from the truth, everything around us is regarded as nature, if you are gonna call this Chinese attempt to control the flow of a river a war on nature, then you using your laptop or computer is also a war on nature, as you are controlling the electricity.

I'm not gonna take that one point and try to attack you, therefore will talk about the effects of such a project. It has a short term advantage, but countries are taking risks because they believe our technology is advancing in high pace, therefore in long term new solutions might come to existence.

Libya had a similar project until NATO turn the country in to a war zone. Almost all of Benghazi's water comes from the Southern Springs through the man made river. This had to potential to last for over 50,000 years, this is the short term, but 50,000 years is pretty long comparing it with generational lifespan.

Who gives a crap about North China. That's the problem with the US. America always worries so much about the affairs of others that we can't take care of ourselves. America is dying far faster than North China and no on gives a damn about that it seems.

besides....

Maybe fears of Chinese world dominance are overblown...

This is when wars are most likely to happen. when the resources of a country are depleteing.

I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU INDIVIDUALS. "THE BAD U.S.A." Every country is corrupt and willing to exploit. I wish to give you all a palm to the face. This is just another point of how this forum has gone to SH!T in the last 2 years. I thought we were here to expose the truth and help people. Not badger each other to PROVE who is REALLY wrong. No wonder the people of the world are destined to fail.

Originally posted by sadwolf
reply to post by loam

 

The elephant in the room no one ever wants to talk about is over population. Everything else in our life is regulated
to the hilt but not propagation.Anyone can have kids.
Good post and your comment at the end was spot on.

Yes, but that is not the case in China. Their succesfull population control program (more than 300 million births prevented) has already stopped Chinese population from increasing, and it will begin to decrease in following decade. Not to mention their GDP per capita is increasing the fastest in the world, the "capita" denominator being controlled is one of the main influences responsible for this.

The pollution is bad, but in a heavily industrializing country like China, transitioning from a third world country to modern economy, it is to be expected to some degree, IMHO. More pictures here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by blamethegreys


The technology already exists. All you really have to do is separate out the salts (edit: from seawater).

It called a desalination plant.

We are going to be screwed for resources across the board. Water is only one variable. Unless people realise that the Earth does in fact have a carrying capacity, we are headed for some extremely dark times. Its really too late to stop this, especially as religions encourage people to breed as much as possible, while corporations rely on growing populations to maintain their 'growth' (despite the complete lack of long-term sustainability). Sustainability initiatives are not effective enough and need to be adopted much faster. Either way, the problem is that the more people you have, the further you have to spread your resources, and we are literally consuming the planet at a rate that is totally suicidal.

Please don't respond if you are one of those people who thinks we can fit billions more on the planet because there is more room. You are yours have no idea about ecosystems and the resources required for each individual to live at various standards of life.

Funny how everyone is too PC to even mention the population issue, especially as it is the basis of our consumption. Having now worked in the industry for a few years, I have almost never heard anyone even mention the concept. Its common sense.

For those that will ask: 'How do you propose we reduce the global population? Kill a few billion people?'. The answer is that the problem should have been recognised decades ago and applied to current economic paradigms. Its all about greed. People should not be allowed to breed out of control. This is for the sake of ALL future generations, should they be fortunate enough to exist. We should be striving not just for intragenerational equality, but also for intergenerational equality. In short, I do not consider a 'culling' to be a viable option for our species, however we need to stop people from reproducing by offering some sort of incentive.

When the # really starts to hit the fan and there are mass climate refugees there will be localised wars and massarces all over the world. Mark my words.

Who do you think are the ones that are going to run to the bunkers and wait out the mass starvation? They are going to be the same people who knew this was coming, but continued to profit until the very end.

Unfortunately this unprecedented situation for the human race is something that cannot be fixed with an immediate policy change or a cash injection. It needs long term thought and it needed to be done 50 years ago.

reply to post by seenitall


yep, i had mentioned that in this thread, as well as some others.

considering the fact some newer desalination plant designs can also provide energy aswell as water
one has to wonder why this is not being pushed more to the forefront

they want us trapped in those good old dependency systems

reply to post by loam


DESALINATION ! they take copyrights to everything else,Start building : ]

Originally posted by AnotherYOU
reply to post by seenitall

 

considering the fact some newer desalination plant designs can also provide energy aswell as water
one has to wonder why this is not being pushed more to the forefront

[citation needed]

As far as I know, desalination consumes LOTS of energy. There are some newer designs that consume somehow less. But producing energy? That sounds impossible to me.

reply to post by AnotherYOU


You aren't going to be able to produce a net gain in energy from a desal plant designed to supply a city.

I don't really think its about dependency. Its about survival now. This is just the beginning.

You can always take seawater and turn it into fresh water with a couple of pots, a sheet of plastic and a little bit of sunlight.

The creation of dependence is reliant on apathy.

reply to post by loam


There is an alternative and it is actually made in the USA. Here is a chance for business ie American jobs and export to China instead of one way imports from China. Its simple, and it works, water from the air....

air2waterglobal.com...

People don't seem to realise what environmental issues and climate change are all about. It is a massive interconnected system that encompasses the planet. It includes all of the layers of the atmosphere and ocean including their currents, it includes primary production and food availability, weather patterns and freshwater availability, storm systems and wildfires, shifting habitats, invasive species, ecosystems of all scales, human development, just about everything you can think of.

To me this whole problem is a matter of science and reason versus economics and religion.

The economists and religious among us want more people, the former to get richer and the latter to appease a concept.

For the economists out there I'll tell you one thing now. Humanity never escaped the malthusian curve. We just advanced so quickly in technology that we were able to access our resources much more effectively. This would be fine if the world was infinite, however it is not.

I really don't understand why this is a concept that is so difficult for some people to grasp.

I think Mother Nature is already beginning to flex her muscles, warming up for some really big disasters that will lead to a few million being wiped off the face of the Earth in natural disasters. Earth can take only so much before it fights back and gets rid of the cancer that is polluting the planet, in this case that is mankind. What we need to do is escape this planet in the next few decades and set up colonies on Mars, the Moon, nearby asteroiods or build space stations. We have the technology. We just need to bang a few political heads together and make them see sense. Oh and whilst doing that, dump the use of oil and concentrate on solar power and electric powered cars etc. No baby steps. We are way too late for that. We need to make the change overnight now. .

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


Meaning we need another asteroid that killed the dinosaurs for being too dominant and big.

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


There are many trying.

Dollars are everything though.

Its such a shame, especially for those not at least partially mentally prepared for the near future.

reply to post by Maslo


it sounded impossible to me too, but then i read this.

www.bi-me.com...

ok so it's not really power out of the desalination process, but it's a 2 in 1 plant, wich basically does the trick.

reply to post by deltaboy


The irony is that we are doing it to ourselves.

The dinosaurs didn't have a say in the matter.

reply to post by AnotherYOU


You still have to provide the fuel. I'm assuming you're looking at a power plant (using fuel) that collects the steam used to drive the turbines.

To add: You don't really want to have to desalinate water if you can get by without it. Its expensive and you have to deal with immense amounts of residual salts.