North China is dying...and the solution that may scar a planet.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss

 

Meaning we need another asteroid that killed the dinosaurs for being too dominant and big.

hmmmm and if we evolved from the dinosaurs,

well that's another topic,

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Imhotepsol
Good and well thought out post aside from your last comment.

You seem to forget that the Western World has damaged more of the entire planet for oil, minerals, power even #s and giggles sometimes then China ever has. Although I do not agree with their ideas to divert massive bodies of water to struggling areas I would not be so quick as to call them idiots. Especially with the track record the Western World has in regards to the environment and mother earth.

I was going to flag and star but for your immature and stupid comment at the end I won't bother.

You are en expert in this matter, or is this just liberal guilt talking?

Maybe that's a little bit of an exaggeration on both sides.

However, why are LIBERALS the only people who should feel guilty? Should we feel PROUD of all the genocide in the USA that took this land from the indigenous indians -- or perhaps should we have a little more "humility."

I know it get's tiresome, not to talk down to China or other countries -- but we need to maybe RESEARCH the issue a bit more, realize that the Chinese are sometimes going to act in different ways, but ways that seem REASONABLE TO THEM, and not try to be so Arrogant.

>> The term "LIBERAL GUILT" is an issue for people who have no shame being "ARROGANT A-HOLES." I'm not saying WHO is doing this -- because, they probably are the LAST TO KNOW anyway, and have lived their whole lives thinking that everything GOOD and GREAT is just like them, and all the problems in this world are due to people NOT LIKE THEM.

Does that about sum it up?

Suppose that I think that everyone else is a jerk but me -- I am more likely to be the actual jerk. If I KNOW that I and the people in my society I was born amongst are sometimes and have been in the past, a bunch of jerks -- I am showing a bit of humility, and an understanding of history. If you ALWAYS think your people are jerks -- well, that's probably more about JERKS who never listen, and you feel like you have to overcompensate.

Yes, it is true; people in China have been huge jerks in the past and still are -- and the same goes for the USA. It's important to KNOW when and when not, people are behaving as jerks. But to say; "We have never been jerks" is the most ignorant and jerky thing to say. To admit that your people are acting like jerks or have acted like jerks, DOES NOT, make you look like a bigger jerk -- because, really, everybody else but you already suspects that you are. Seriously. Pretending otherwise, is to GUARANTEE your status of being a jerk.

Can I make this simpler? If it doesn't make sense; then you might be a jerk. Don't worry; you are in good company and you can group up with like-minded individuals and call everybody not like you a jerk, it's called a "support group." Or sometimes "the Klan" or "Tea Party" patriots. Also, anyone who says; "I'm a Patriot" as if, anyone within earshot were NOT, is likely a huge jerk. Thinking that your poop doesn't stink and that of your countries collective poop doesn't stink (except for that other half of the country who says; sometimes we stink), is nothing new in history, and should not be considered in the least, anything to brag about or pat yourself on the back for.

Also a hint; if you compliment yourself and pat yourself on the back for being; "happily married", a kid, an American, born with ten fingers and ten toes, or basically ANYTHING, you are probably a jerk. You have to let OTHER PEOPLE compliment you. You know, like when France gave us the Statue of Liberty -- that was a compliment we might have deserved then. America, making ourselves a Statue of Liberty -- nothing special about that.

Lenin and Saddam all made themselves statues, and they all got pulled down. One, by their own people, and the other by some rabble hired by CNN for the cameras -- still, not really impressing anyone but Lenin and Stalin when all is said and done.


>> So next time, I might want to use the term; "Liberal Guilt" -- I'll use the correct term; "Please stop overcompensating for me being a clueless, pompous jerk."

I don't know WHAT this argument is about -- I'm merely pointing out Laws of the Universe.

reply to post by sadwolf


i don't have kids and i don't want any. i think people should consider adoption or being foster parents instead of giving birth.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Sociologist Michael Goldman has argued that "Industry analysts predict that private water will soon be a capitalized market as precious, and as war-provoking, as oil".[56] Goldman says "These days, an indebted country cannot borrow capital from the World Bank or IMF without a domestic water privatization policy as a precondition".[56]

The Bank is utilizing "the 'Washington Consensus' model of "development" to promote water privatization. Following this model, the World Bank is forcing many countries to commodify their water resources, rather than using their expertise in the public sector to acknowledge water as a universal human right and an essential public service".[56]

The push for water privatization development plays upon "the shocking tragedy that much of the world lacks affordable clean water". This image creates "new opportunities in development, though it may have little to do with ultimately quenching" the needs of impoverished countries.

...One notable example is the privatization of water forced upon Bolivians by the World Bank which led to multiple protests including the 2000 Cochabamba protests.

Excellent, Incrediblelousminds. Water is already the subject of a resource war. One of the reasons for Israel's need to keep the West Bank & Golan Heights is its water.

Of course, this will only get worse around the world.

Originally posted by eLPresidente
I'm surprised there are 3 pages of blame and finger pointing in this thread and nobody has attempted to even discuss solutions.

Desalinization?

I'm very interested in Desalinization.

Consider what it would mean to a country the size of the continental US, Australia, to have affordable desalinization. Most of interior Australia is desert (except for Alice Springs). If you could get water deep into the Australian deserts, it would change the country profoundly.

Where is the disappearing water? It's in the human population. When the people die the water is released back into nature. Water probably moves around just like sand dunes and beaches do. It's natural. Water is reclycled naturally every day. The earth filters the pollutants out as it sinks back into the Earth. People do need to start being careful of what goes into the sewer and how much clean water is used. Birth control needs to be China's
main effort. Things have got to change, maybe neutering people at birth in overpopulated nations. Extreme measures for extreme situations. Lack of clean water leads to disease and rapid deaths.

reply to post by loam


i dont think their morons their chinese; and as a communist country they have old documents to follow based on their countries ideologies, just like america has the constitution. i think the chinese are attempting to change the function of their society at the costs only they; the chinese, are willing to bear. but the only fault i have with this transition is the ability to self sustain, since a communist is a human first their endeavors neglect the basic principles and necessities that are required for sustenance as a human being. if they dont get into bio engineering and genetic alterations to accommodate their changing environment they will loose out on the gamble to change their society according to communist views of progression.

reply to post by blamethegreys


I agree that water will become the number 1 concern as well as food. Countries will invade for water. China hgas a huge army and are building their navy. Watch them. There wil lbe wars over water.

Originally posted by Agarta
I am a little confused about this. Is there anyone who can explain it for me?

China is drying up because of not enough rain? I thought the had this thing figured out with all their weather modification technology and all. Maybe because of their desire to make the 2008 Olympics rain free they went overboard. Here are the ATS threads discussing Chinas weather modification.....
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So whats the deal? They have the technology proven by their own words. Did they mess things up and now can not reverse it? Is it a case of... You can't seed a cloud that is not there? or do they not have the technology to create a cloud to begin with? I just do not understand.

This last sentance reminds me of around 2002-3 or therabouts when Art Bell was dinking with mass conciencness. Something he said, that if you have cause here and change here, it is logical to think it will affect another place some distance away. or as I took it upsetting the ballance, and that's why he was reluctant . This was around the time of Mell's Hole was on his show.

Why doesn't China just move into Mexico? There are no mexicans there anymore,they're all in the US.
They could call the new mexico........Chi-co, lol

No worries !!!

FREE enery reactors from Itali WILL CURE ALL

Complete insanity. Desperately grasping at the drops of what's left. It's very clear that global water crisis is on the way. Hell, it's already here.

The other thing that fascinates me about China is the problems they are having with soil exhaustion and increasing desertification. It's really hard to see how China can even begin to imagine feeding their population in 15 years time.

I guess all hopes are pinned on GM drought and low-soil-quality tolerant crops.

Originally posted by blamethegreys
I never ever predict anything, but mark my words, before this century is over, fresh water will be the number one concern facing the world. Wars will be fought, people will murder, and millions of lives will be lost over drinking water.

Simply put, we are using it faster than nature can produce it. We can't effectively convert sea water yet (which would be the only caveat to the above statement, should we invent the means). Humanities requirements far exceeds the supply, and when reserves are gone...balance must ensue.

IMO settling yourself into a location with a reliable natural water supply is one of the most important things you can do for your family.

There are tons of systems to perform this including this one:

www.raindancewatersystems.com...

But the internet is littered with solutions.

Why can't we just live in constant peace and protection?

Originally posted by mystery107
Why can't we just live in constant peace and protection?

Because people in positions of power, always want to grow that power, most times on the backs and at stakes with the other humans on this planet.

Greed, is one of the most intolerable emotions that humans can display.

My concern with all of this is that as China finds itself unable to sustain it's population they will have no choice but to try and take resources by force. They're trying to build up their military but insiders say it is a very slow process and they are at least 30 years behind the U.S., so the odds they could effectively get their troops all the way over here are slim to none.

So where will they go?

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
My concern with all of this is that as China finds itself unable to sustain it's population they will have no choice but to try and take resources by force. They're trying to build up their military but insiders say it is a very slow process and they are at least 30 years behind the U.S., so the odds they could effectively get their troops all the way over here are slim to none.

So where will they go?

This is a thread about China's water supplies, no point in turning it into yet another China vs U.S. war topic.

I've posted earlier in this thread that we know the issue, now let us talk about solutions. I'm a bit disappointed so many here just go jumping to conclusions that Chinese are stupid and don't know how to get around a water issue. Seems like the river diversion is temporary as China is planning major desalination efforts. We all know UAE is big on desalination as they rely on it to survive.

news.xinhuanet.com...

Way back in 2005 I wrote a report on the possible altering of the effects of Global Warming. Even at the time I did not believe that it was man made, however, the ice caps are melting, causing damage to the oceans currents and rising waters. I decided to ignore what or who was at fault and simply attempted to show a plausible way to deal with it. The company took off but the project never came to be. I named the company Global Preservation Project (G.P.P.). I published the report here in 2006... Global Preservation Project

Most of the links are broken, but the report and all its pages are intact. Unfortunately, I can not access it to clear the bad links. Most of the report deals with water relocation and habitat development. If you would like to read the full report see the link above but I will give an over view of the water relocation portion here.

There are massive melt-lakes in areas like Greenland that if they were to break through would raise our oceans by three feet. This has massive catastrophic possibilities for coastal regions all over the planet. Melt-lakes are areas, especially along the coastal areas of Greenland, that are "soft spots" in the ice where it has begun to melt. Ice is reflective and it bounces the Suns rays back into space, but if it begins to melt the water absorbs the Suns rays and warms up causing giant and vast lakes to form. They tunnel and dig through the ice at an alarming rate. There are also many icebergs that have broken off and are melting as they travel south. Not only is this putting fresh water into a salt water area but also causes hazards for shipping lanes. Fresh water is lighter than salt water and "floats" on the surface. This stops the cold sea water(which is heavier than warm sea water) from sinking and completing its cycle of dropping in the north then traveling South and rising again as it warms in the Southern hemisphere. This is what regulates a balanced weather pattern on a global scale and the fresh water is bringing this cycle to a stop causing erratic weather patterns.

My report shows that the collecting, melting, and transport of these bergs, as well as the siphoning of the melt-lakes into tankers and transporting the fresh water to the mouths of rivers would serve multiple purposes.
First is would lessen the possibility of rising Oceans. Second it would bring desperately needed water to drought stricken areas for both drinking and agriculture.

It is my belief that our planet is drying up on the land masses and with a little help from us, we can alter if not stop this from happening. The problem is that the major companies I contacted to activate this plan declined because, even though the report shows that it can pay for itself, they could not turn a profit.

If China were to implement this plan they would have no further problems.

Sorry Earth and all the people dieing, I tried.

reply to post by blamethegreys


yep, you do predict! but you may be right. in any case i moved to a sub tropical area with a high rainfall. and lately the springs are going burserk with excess.