North China is dying...and the solution that may scar a planet.

reply to post by Agarta


Temporary Weather modification techniques is a far cry from controlling it

First off, those thread links are to speculative articles about attempts at weather manipulations. It's not "Proven Technology" for anything. Cloud busting to prevent an unwanted rainstorm during a game/parade and or public event is not controlling the weather. Simply an attempt to manipulate it which is a far cry from controlling it. None of those links prove that they were ever successful.

Second, There seems to me a bunch of speculation that many ASSUME is real or 100% accurate. If they had the ability IMHO we wouldn't be discussing this topic nor would there be this amount of damage that there is in the REAL real world.

reply to post by sadwolf


Not remotely.
The elephant in the room is the ants stacked and pressed together to be the size of an elephant, not the quantity of ants themselves. Imperial life, that which is against the animal nature and spiritual nature of man, is squashing everything in it's path. We need to spread out physically, and be closer in spirit; Live Charitably, and Live Orderly - Live as though we are Alive. Life is Alive.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Agarta

 

Temporary Weather modification techniques is a far cry from controlling it

First off, those thread links are to speculative articles about attempts at weather manipulations. It's not "Proven Technology" for anything. Cloud busting to prevent an unwanted rainstorm during a game/parade and or public event is not controlling the weather. Simply an attempt to manipulate it which is a far cry from controlling it. None of those links prove that they were ever successful.

Second, There seems to me a bunch of speculation that many ASSUME is real or 100% accurate. If they had the ability IMHO we wouldn't be discussing this topic nor would there be this amount of damage that there is in the REAL real world.

edit on 5-6-2011 by SLAYER69 because: Clarity

That was kind of my point. If they did have this tech the droughts wouldn't be happening.
But then again their jet-streams come across from the west and there are no longer large bodies of water to collect from because all of the countries west of China are drying up as well.

reply to post by Aliensun


So it makes it okay because we've already done it? I don't think so. That outdated mode of thinking allows the Vatican to wield power still today, it allows us to continue benefiting from practices we've long since "out-grown" such as slavery. It is better to say that we've simply outsourced our darker impulses somewhere else.

If you want to talk about current objectives we're yet to reach a consensus on climate change, to agree what terms if any are acceptable for geo-modification. We're yet to have a full and open disclosure of the actual reserves of resources each country has, not the artificially created market values. We're yet to create scientific communities that have the ability to work on projects for any other reason then profit.

I'm not faulting the Chinese for looking to preserve their way of life. You can bet your ass if in the US Washington or another major inland city dependent on a water source was under threat the American government would already be digging man made rivers.

I don't believe that it is a sustainable practice to manipulate the earth to suit our selves. It's prudent practice to adapt ourselves to our environment. That means breaking cities into communal structures with no more than 1500 people per living area. That means having people dedicated to providing services directly focused on the community level, our immediate surroundings and lives. Employment should be determined by the needs of the community, education should be tied in to the fabric of every day life. We should bring back apprenticeships for everything. We should do a lot of things. All we actually do is blame everyone else just so for a moment we don't have to blame ourselves.

It's our way of thinking that's at fault. We blame the past but don't see it still exists here and now. The problems off our immediate doorstep so we forget about it forgetting others are now facing what we once faced. I'm not trying to get at you for highlighting an issue, I'm getting at you for the belief we're free of the sins of the past. Enlightenment is won at the cost of eternal vigilance. Small properly organized and happy communities naturally produce a organized and healthy country. This in turn produces a change in the world. These things will only stop happening when enough people get together to make it stop happening.

I could go on but I think I've said enough.

One problem with society today is that we've elevated ourselves "intellectually" above the ecosystem, as if we can actually affect change on it, whether at will or involuntarily. Every organism in the zoosphere affects the ecosystem to some degree. We, for some arcane reason, believe that we can collectively motivate ourselves to affect some other change other than what nature and evolution (or divine inspiration and design for that matter if you're so disposed) have set us on course for.
Just like different pods of whales and dolphins have instincts for self-preservation and proliferation, so does every species. Sometimes opportunities arise that permit that, and other times circumstance is harsh. They have territories, much like we do, but we have developed the means to overcome most restrictions with regards to our habitat and such, yet we still have not mastered the oceans (not to be discussed here). Wherein their territories may be strictly based upon the prevalent food source, our's seemingly are biased towards communications, on one level, and religion, on another. Once geographical boundaries are transgressed, assimilation based upon culture, customs, traditions and the like such as religion become more prevalent and where such "levels" are incompatible, hostilities emerge.

Another problem with "society", so to speak, is that we, as each group, permit our traditions, customs, religions to become pervasive. What one group allows, another disallows. Some are attempting, too soon, to integrate and proliferate, and are harming our species as much as they are helping, if not more.

We do have a "saving grace", if you will, that with establishment of respect for other's differences comes mutual acceptance. Mutual acceptance is key to unification as a species, in our case. If we are as intellectual as we have deluded ourselves into believing, our species will survive since we have become mini-masters of our environment. And we can do so without concerning ourselves with the climate change as that, whether man-made or not, is unique amongst our species- the ability to alter our surroundings to accommodate our survival.

So, species may become non-extant, others may evolve, it may scorch or may snow. Is that not part and parcel of what has made our planet what it is today? Archaeology suggests the genus "homo" has survived at least one extinction-level event. Asteroid collisions arguably altered the environment far more rapidly than humans have (allegedly) managed to do in 150 years, no? So, what says our species, and other species, won't likewise survive such an event, even if it is anthropocentric?

Well thought out thread, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

The Yangtze and Yellow Rivers both begin on the North-western end of the Tibetan Plateau, why not lengthen a river further into the Tibetan Plateau towards the Himalayas to increase the amount of snow draining into it, thus increasing the water supply? Obviously, that's no small task and it is probably not as simple as that, but it's an idea as it would solve their water problems and save millions of people from having to be relocated.

(China hopes to unlock Himalayan river with giant dam)
www.peopleforum.cn...
Apparently, the Chinese also want to build a huge hydroelectric dam on the Yarlung Tsangpo/Yarlung Zangbo/Brahmaputra Rivers and Tributaries that runs horizontally on the Himalayas in Tibet. It's going to mess some s*** up too.

Wow if this happens then China cannot have the title of being the next superpower due to internal issues

Originally posted by blamethegreys
I never ever predict anything, but mark my words, before this century is over, fresh water will be the number one concern facing the world. Wars will be fought, people will murder, and millions of lives will be lost over drinking water.

Simply put, we are using it faster than nature can produce it. We can't effectively convert sea water yet (which would be the only caveat to the above statement, should we invent the means). Humanities requirements far exceeds the supply, and when reserves are gone...balance must ensue.

IMO settling yourself into a location with a reliable natural water supply is one of the most important things you can do for your family.

Queensland Australia has successfully created its own desalinization plant. It was created to help out during the drought. Now we have so much extra water its sitting there unused and rusting.
The concerning thing is that with all the radioactive water being dumped from faulty reactors we will soon not have this option as a back up.
I think that humanity has enough for its demands however the balance you mention has not yet been found. Nature does have a reset button if history does in fact repeat itself we are possibly seeing it now.
I believe the answer lies in humanities ability to elevate its collective consciousness and start living in tune with the world around itself. There is so much fear and unconsciousness that swamps us daily but tune into your true self and you will see all is not lost.

China is beautiful, those pictures are so wonderful, how I wish I could spend a year just exploring there. I wonder how the canal might impact the gulf stream and system of equalizing climate?

Originally posted by Unity_99
China is beautiful, those pictures are so wonderful, how I wish I could spend a year just exploring there. I wonder how the canal might impact the gulf stream and system of equalizing climate?

Considering China is on the "Pacific" and the "Gulf Stream" is Atlantic...

Originally posted by abecedarian

Originally posted by Unity_99
China is beautiful, those pictures are so wonderful, how I wish I could spend a year just exploring there. I wonder how the canal might impact the gulf stream and system of equalizing climate?

Considering China is on the "Pacific" and the "Gulf Stream" is Atlantic...

The streams are everywhere, the main currents flow from the Pacific to the Atlantic, and that is just one of the conveyer belts.

Do you know what is so bad about Fukushima?

Not only is Japan sitting directly under the Jetstream, but its right at the Pacific version of the Gulfstream, and that conveyer belt is bringing the radiation in a loop to Alaska, it is traveling very quickly.

www.scienceideas.org/concept-maps/Earth/ClimateNew.pdf

www.eoearth.org...

A clockwise circulation of water, known as the North Pacific Gyre generally dominates the North Pacific. This pattern of circulation is comprised of several smaller – but no less important – currents, the Kuroshio Current, the Alaskan Current, the Californian Current and the North Equatorial Current. The North Equatorial Current moves northeastward along the Philippine Islands, and eventually forms the Kuroshio Current (also called the Japan Current). This warm, saline current warms the shores of the western Pacific, and eventually moves eastward beyond Japan. Some branches of the Kuroshio pass north of the Hawaiian Islands, while others come to within 1000 kilometres of North America. These branches of the Kuroshio are moved by strong westerly winds that push the water into one large current, the North Pacific. This current heads towards North America from the Sea of Japan, and branches into the northward moving Alaskan Current, while the remainder forms the southward moving California Current. The California Current flows southeast off the British Columbia coast towards the Baja Penninsula, and brings cold water to these southern shores. Once it reaches this region of Mexico, it turns sharply west, and forms part of the North Equatorial Current.

en.wikipedia.org...

The path of Kuroshio south of Japan is reported every day.[1] Its counterparts are the North Pacific Current to the north, the California Current to the east, and the North Equatorial Current to the south. The warm waters of the Kuroshio Current sustain the coral reefs of Japan, the northernmost coral reefs in the world. The branch into the Sea of Japan is called Tsushima Current (対馬海流 Tsushima Kairyū ?). The Japan Current is also responsible for the mild weather experienced around Alaska's southern coast and in British Columbia.


The Kuroshio is a warm current (24°C annual average sea surface temperature), about 100 km wide and produces frequent small to meso-scale eddies. The Kuroshio Current is ranked as a moderately high productivity ecosystem (150-300 gCm−2y−1) based on SeaWiFs global primary productivity estimates. The coastal areas are highly productive and the maximum chlorophyll value is found around 100 meters depth.[3]

There are indications that eddies contribute to the preservation and survival of fish larvae transported by the Kuroshio.[4] Plankton biomass fluctuates yearly and is typically highest in the eddy area of the Kuroshio’s edge. Warm-core rings are not known for having high productivity. However, the biology of the warm-core rings from the Kuroshio Current show results of productivity equally distributed throughout for a couple of reasons. One is upwelling at the periphery and two, the convective mixing caused by the cooling of surface water as the ring moves north of the current. The thermostad is the deep mixed layer that has discrete boundaries and uniform temperature.....

Looking at these pictures of China makes me wonder what our country might look like if it was not for the "Earth-Day" people of the late 60's-early 70's. They may think they didn't do enough to save the earth but thankfully, our system of government allows for this type of grass-roots change. If groups spoke out in China (which I'm sure they did), they would have been stifled and imprisoned, and probably were. Thank you hippies! The organized and educated ones anyway...

You go from saying "gulf stream" to mentioning "jet stream". One is oceanic currents and the other is atmospheric.

Originally posted by Unity_99The streams are everywhere, the main currents flow from the Pacific to the Atlantic, and that is just one of the conveyer belts.

Do you know what is so bad about Fukushima?

Not only is Japan sitting directly under the Jetstream, but its right at the Pacific version of the Gulfstream, and that conveyer belt is bringing the radiation in a loop to Alaska, it is traveling very quickly.

Nope, not the Gulf Stream. In one sentence you call it Gulfstream and the next you call it "the Pacific verison of the Gulfstream...".

One topic at a time. Mean what you say and say what you mean. Do not go comingling terms that aren't the same and are at best diametrically opposed.

reply to post by loam


S&F for catching my attention. I hope people here understand that this a a preview of what will happen in the rest of the world in time. China has over a billion people and they're thinking of easing their birth control policies!

The world is over-populated and over-industrialized. We are killing our planet.

reply to post by loam


Well if China owns America with our debt to them then they may just come here and seize our land when they call in their loans and we can't pay them... You know they will need that money now to do this1 Just a thought!

S&F Thank You OP for a thread that actually matters , instead of the usual BS . Its sadd more people dont care about issues like this and similar , the Earth is loosing its Fresh Water supply at a horrifying rate ...People will care when they are dieing of thirst and we are going to war to secure water to drink .

Originally posted by Imhotepsol
Good and well thought out post aside from your last comment.

You seem to forget that the Western World has damaged more of the entire planet for oil, minerals, power even #s and giggles sometimes then China ever has. Although I do not agree with their ideas to divert massive bodies of water to struggling areas I would not be so quick as to call them idiots. Especially with the track record the Western World has in regards to the environment and mother earth.

I was going to flag and star but for your immature and stupid comment at the end I won't bother.

The Western World has nothing to do with what is happening in China so stop trying to blame everything bad that that happens in the world on the USA.

Before we know it the will be coming over here (USA) en masse once they have destroyed their original homeland

reply to post by bigrex


That's what I think too. If America is so in debt to China and they call in their loans that we can not pay can't they do what banks do when you default on their loans? They come take your house so won't China be able to come take our land for payment of the loans? Just what happens when a country can't pay their debts to other countries? They seize their assets I would think.. What else would they have to take if our dollar falls like it has been doing.. I will be willing to bet they won't take American cash.. Makes you wonder! America needs to sue them over all the toxic crap they have been sending over here to lower our debt to them! Who knows how many lives they have taken with their toxic goods they send here!

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Good news
news.xinhuanet.com...

Or maybe just really optimistic news, like this piece:



But look at these:





Despite China's desire to spin it differently, a few days of rain really isn't going to fix China's water problems...

The statistics presented by the VOA piece above are startling to say the least.