Best martial art for survival when the brown stuff starts flying around

I also believe you need to mix styles. BJJ to start. A BJJ blue belt can beat black belts in most other styles. For stand up I have to say Muay Thai. Finally throw in Russian Systema for guns, knives, and combat survival.

Know your enemy.
Know when to run, when to hold your ground, and when to put up an offensive.
Know how to defend yourself (and others if necessary) and how to put up an offensive.
Use any martial art and/or weapon available for the task at hand.
*NOTE* Not all martial arts and/or weapons available may be applicable in any scenario: use caution, patience, and always look for a chance to dip out.
Literally, anything can be used against anyone in many ways.
I think a good idea is Attack + Defense = Best overall outcome (for you and the defended, anyway).
Be careful.

Originally posted by JayFlores
reply to post by Arkady

 

The question is- whos doing the punching and kicking? Ive seen huge guys that hit like my 3 yr old daughter and I had a 5 foot nothing 130 pound kid break my orbital and lay me out cold with one punch.Unlike most of the people on this forum- I like to fight and test my theories.To me fighting is one of the top rushes out there.I'll fight anybody, anywhere just to see if Im better than they are.Sometimes I am,Sometimes Im not. But I still get my adrenaline rush, a workout and have some fun. So if youre ever in the Orlando area look me up.Thats my REAL name by the way

I'm getting some serious angry ethnic minority vibes from you little dude.
If TSHTF you'd be among the last people I'd want in my crew and I mean that in a good way.

I think you are a likeable dude with a lot of heart, but seriously do you really want that attitude and mindset if you have to work with a team or gang etc?
There'd be a damned fight every morning or something with that mentality man!

There is no superior martial art only superior martial artists.
Go to any school close by and watch those classes for at least two weeks. This will give you a clear picture of what they teach and how. I have been studying martial arts for 40+ yrs mostly okinawan karate,judo,aikido and western boxing. If you attend a karate class and they are teaching any blocks it is not "true" karate. In true karate there are no "blocks". A school which teaches only a block, kick, punch method is only teaching a childrens class and will be of little use against a dangerious opponent. As an adult you don't have years and years to invest in training before being able to effectively defend yourself. So it is most important to find the right style and proper teacher.

Originally posted by rakkasansct
reply to post by JeepOrDie

 

BJJ is using body postioning and leverage, not strength. Beginners make the mistake of muscling through moves. We have a 60ish year old instructor that rolls with teenagers and twenty-somethings and he submits them.

He is by far the exception, not the rule, when it comes to 60 year old Americans. He chose to stay in good shape and as an instructor, his overall skill level is much higher. Still BJJ us a very physically demanding sport, and brute strength can overcome a lot. Ask hulks like Brock Lesnar.

reply to post by JeepOrDie


Anecdotal stories are great, but I look at things from the perspective of science.


Anyone can groin strike or eye gouge. Training to do this has very limited return. That's why you learn a system that enables you to become well rounded and prepared for anything.


There are too many Mc Dojo's and classical styles that focus on Kata's instead of applicability.

Kick boxing will be great to use against someone who is attacking you. Punches and kicks. That is what I like.

Without reading the rest of the posts, and regardless of what anybody says; there is no "complete and ultimate" martial art. Striking arts lack in the grappling department, and grappling arts have no striking whatsoever. I, personally train in multiple arts, to cover a variety of areas. I've been training in GJJ(that's Gracie Ju Jitsu) for 15 years, and hold belt ranks in songham taekwondo, muay tai, and hapkido. I've also recently added krav maga to my arsenal. In my opinion, your best option is to take BASIC training in 1 striking art, 1 wrestling-based art, ju jitsu, and 1 military art (like krav maga). That way you have a well-rounded balance of what you NEED to know. Just my observations from a fellow martial artist

reply to post by KnightwhosaysNi


You have a belt in muay thai. Really?

Also, 15 years of "GJJ".. wow you were one of the first in the US!

reply to post by JeepOrDie


I was clearing up misconceptions you were spreading about BJJ. Ask average size men like Royce Gracie.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


GJJ has been around North America for almost 50 years. Helio Gracie was teaching it for years, and Rickman has run the Torrence, Ca. dojo for roughly 30 years. So I'm not really one of the first. I don't live in the US. I live north of Vancouver, BC. Here Muay Tai is treated somewhat like a martial art instead of a combat sport. They rank it the same as other martial arts.

Im Going To Have To Go With Rex Kwon Do.

i figure you should make out ok with a brawling style with a little technique thrown in to make it more effective.

reply to post by KnightwhosaysNi


Rickson you mean?


And, yeah, 15 years, you must be close to black.

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed

My technique comes from the Ancient School of the 9mm.

I prefer to compare sport vs self defense. Mind you this is not true for ALL systems of combat and combat sports. But it is common in the martial arts world. It is a trend that has been happening since ancient greece. It all comes down to focus and branching out to absorb everything.

Sport Martial Arts:

PROS:
-attributes that go beyond the simple Joe karate who trains 2 times a week. Many sports fighters have excellent modern traing methods.
-They use force, direction, misdirection, momentum, against a live resisting opponent. Its LIVE application, for a live world. This is VERY important, far more imporant that I can ever explain. Best way to explain it is to use real-world examples, its like learning math AND applying it LIVE against an actual math-problem. That "math problem" is sparring-training (using gloves rounds, etc. against someone who doesnt stand there so you can do moves on him, but who will oppose you because he seeks to do the same to you). Many self defense arts do not train LIVE with resistance as I will explain below.

CONS:
-Over reliance on rules. In the streets there is NO REF, NO RULES, NO PADS, AND NO POINTS OR ILLEGAL MOVES. No ring, no grabbing ropes, working the cage, goes out the window.
-Many techniques have to be altered, sports fighters are drilled constantly to avoid using illegal moves/tactics and to use legal moves. Its not easy to forget years of leg trips into a rolling knee-bar even though you are in a small confined elevator, or two people are against you and going to the ground wont work with a guy number 2 standing over you, moving in for a clinch against two guys, or when one is armed, is suicide. And clinches are very important in many sports arts from mma, boxing, to muay thia.
-Many dont train self defense. They train for sport. The best schools want to spend 100% on applying their art for their sport. You dont play cricket when you want to be really good at baseball. So many schools ignore knife disarms, multiple opponent fighting, street-fighting theories, and most importantly, they wont drill the habit of teaching "illegal strikes" (neck strikes, groin strikes, using weapons) its against their nature, and it could build bad habits (which is good habits for us) that they want to avoid when their are judges and referees dictating the fight.

Self Defense

PrOS:
-Theories offered for self defense, knife disarms and some schools go in depth to discuss how to handle situations, how to handle the enviornment.
-They train using "illegal" techniques (which to them are just regular techniques). These arts are in their purest form, used in the battlefield or for self defense in an era of time where you could be killed without penalty.

CONS:
- You cant use illegal techniques on someone with full resistance without causing injury, or perform it without creating so many rules and regulations that you lose the realism, which is the problem i mentioned with sports earlier. You are not hitting a neck, you are hitting someone so heavily padded and immobile from the padded suit that you might as well hit a heavybag. You are not hitting an eyeball if you stop within feet of impact, you are hitting air my friend (which screws up your timing and coordination more than you could ever imagine because you will build a habit of hitting without hitting).
- The excuse of, "these techniques are too dangerous to use in sparring (sparring is a sports term, its live resistance against an opponent, which was a PRO for sports above)". So, you end up with people who have less timing, coordination, and who never grasp live attacks against a resisting opponent. All you have is DEAD training, where one attacks, the other defends, no resistance, and you break down training into fictional roles with rules ( which in other words means:"hold this knife and attack me at this angle with your left hand and i do this move, ok.. go!").
-Some arts are restrictive due to tradition. The art in martial art means expression, personal style. YOU are using someone elses personal style for combat, not yours. There is no one size fits all policy, not every body type can perfectly match a style, not everyone has the attributes the great master had when he created HIS style (thats why people spend so many years learning martial arts, because you need to CONFORM to that persons personal expression of combat. Style is fiction- you dont copy a painting and say you are a painter, you learn from it, move on and adapt.

So, unless I bored you with all of this, then you read it all. Final answer: learn at the pros and cons, do the math. Add, subtract, and fix one con with another pro, and mix and match, so no cons is dominant. In other words, take the best of both worlds. Train in sports sparring, but dont neglect self defense. Do self defense sparring with cushioned/plastic knives, both armed, one armed, whatever. But both attack, do not do "roles" and rules. You will fall into one of the con categorizes, thats fine, as though as you dont live by it, and branch out, you absorb everything, and you wont become too over-reliant in it.

Good examples of those that follow this principle:
Jeet Kune Do
Mixed Martial Arts that offer self defense training (might be packaged as a deal)
Older karate schools did a lot of kickboxing and wrestling
Some Kung Fu Schools train in San Shou (chinese wrestling mixed with kickboxing)
Or, if you have the money, train in two arts!

Originally posted by JayFlores
reply to post by Arkady

 

The question is- whos doing the punching and kicking? Ive seen huge guys that hit like my 3 yr old daughter and I had a 5 foot nothing 130 pound kid break my orbital and lay me out cold with one punch.Unlike most of the people on this forum- I like to fight and test my theories.To me fighting is one of the top rushes out there.I'll fight anybody, anywhere just to see if Im better than they are.Sometimes I am,Sometimes Im not. But I still get my adrenaline rush, a workout and have some fun. So if youre ever in the Orlando area look me up.Thats my REAL name by the way

No disrespect, but I dont understand how you can like fighting. If you are a good fighter like you claim, then you are basically saying, "I LIKE TO HURT PEOPLE". Which seems like a serious issue.

If you ever seriously cracked a jaw out of place and knocked them out that they end up bleeding and snoring on the ground, then you would never want to put someone through that again unless your life or property was threatened.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Statistically 70% of fights end up going to the ground so being able to be as quick and fatal on your back just as your feet would be vital.

Standing there is no reason in this situation for you not to be armed with a sidearm and/or a hand weapon to incapacitate your foe with.

I found a topic that made me quit lurking in the shadows! LOL I dont even know where to begin. First, Im a 6' 1", 200lbs, 9% body fat fighter, wait Martial Artist. The difference between a fighter and a martial artist is, a fighter only trains when they have a fight coming up. A martial artist trains all of the time.

That being said, I have lived one helluva life on top of all this(drugs, murder(i didnt commit it, but its not far down the line), dealing with mexican drug cartels, etc.) I only mention this to validate my need for learning to defend myself. My entire life(Im 26) I've devoted my mind,body, and soul to honing myself into a weapon. Whether it be conditioning, hands, firearms, and edged weapon training. I pretty much set out to find the hardest MOFOS that had been battle tested and came up with the SeALs.

So I emulated my training based of of them and I mean everything, and it has lead me to some interesting finds. I kind of toy with the thought of actually being a superhuman lol...seriously though. I didn't set out to prepare for the end of the world, i set out to make myself a better killer should someone try to mess with me. Just so happens they are almost identical paths. Enough yammering, here is what I recommend to keep yer ass out of the fryer...

First we have, have, have to talk about conditioning, your newly acquired skills will be useless if you dont have the stamina, agility, flexibility, dexterity, strength, power, balance, etc to pull your moves off. No matter what style or "art" you choose they will provide some conditioning (some styles more than others). However, I have one word for you and if you want to stay alive(should the world end).....CrossFit! Google the crap out of it, it is free to anyone! This stuff makes me puke in under 10 mins!! Since the topic of this thread is survival im not going to go into the details of why CrossFit owns every fitness regimen on the planet, just know these things...Its what the SeALs do, it's free, and it will transform you into an athletic super beast in no time flat, all the best mma fighters, and professional athletes use CrossFit whether they admit it or not(imagine p90x on meth!)

Ok so now that we have gotten fitness and conditioning out of the way lets talk about what styles of martial art works best(at least to me, and i use this stuff to save my life people!)

(not in any particular order, you NEED em all to be complete!)

Striking- Boxing, Muy Thai, kali (Inosanto/Vunak)

Grappling-Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo

Edged weapons- Kali (Inosanto/Vunak) Think Book of Eli

Stick weapons- Kali(Inosanto Vunak)

Firearms- CQC tactics (practice,practice, practice!)

O the SeALs use all of the styles i mentioned... The tip of America's Spear is based on this stuff...the blueprint...YOUR WELCOME! (sorry about the somewhat hard read, my mind just moves baby!)

O yeah in my rant i forgot to mention the most practical way to learn most of these skills under one roof. Go join the best local MMA gym you can find. You'll learn a majority of what I mentioned there. Not only that itll be the filet minion of each style(only the stuff that works) allowing you to become a more well rounded, effective fighter quicker....TICK TOCK that clock dont stop!

I have read through the lists of posts related to this thread, and with a couple of exceptions, did not find much in the way of substance to answer the question as to "the best martial art for survival when TSHTF." I would interject that there is no best martial art system or martial arts style, and that looking to the martial arts for survival methods is a grave mistake. I have studied several martial arts to advanced black belt level, as well as law enforcement defensive tactics, and military hand-to-hand combatives. I can state from personal experience, that I spent years studying and learning martial arts techniques which are no longer relevant to modern society, or are simply non-functional in a violent life or death encounter. Street encounters are not like the the dojo or martial arts school, nor are they a sporting event with rules and referees. Even BJJ and UFC have rules, refere, and a ring. No matter how refined your grappling skills, do you really want to take someone to the ground in a parking lot strewn with broken glass, or if he/she has friends nearby ready to knife you or kick your head in. Probably 80% of what is taught in a modern martial arts school will not work in the street, and could easily get you killed. I would recommend that readers investigate personal protection systems which are based on military or tactical law enforcement combatives. There are several excellent options, and I admit that I am likely not aware of all the "top shelf" options, which is why I recommend personal investigation. To get you started I would suggest investigating the following:
www.theselfdefenseco.com... , which is based on WWII military combatives,
www.targetfocustraining.com... , which is based on modern special forces military combatives, and
attackproof.com , which is derived from law enforcement defensive tactics from major US police departments.
All three (3) are excellent, and offer both live seminars and DVD home learning options.
What is offered are simple, effective techniques which can be learned quickly and retained, and which are useful whether you are at your best, or fatigued, weak from lack of food, or injured.
I would also suggest that everyone reading, and interested in this thread, check out the following organizations:
www.usconcealedcarry.com...
www.ISCQC.org
www.surviveinplace.com...

I would offer that the most important concepts for survival are as follows:

1. Awareness. Be aware of what is going on around you. Learn Col. Coopers Color Code System and follow it.
2. Avoid a confrontation if at all possible.
3. Action verses Reaction. Don't think in terms of defense, or you are reacting, Act, and attack the attacker.
4. Do as much damage as possible, as quickly as possible. System, style and form do not matter.
5. Always use whatever advantage you have. If there is a weapon available, use it.

The goal is not to win, but to survive.

All the best, and the best of luck, to each of you.

Thanks for reading.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by 1Starman
reply to post by OoohLaDeDa

 

The simple and useful tactics of Aikido,judo,karate and taekwondo are easy to learn and can be used to get you out of sticky situations. Use them for defence to disable your assailant temporary so that you can get away.

NO! In a SHTF world this mindset will get you killed, your wife raped and your children raped/murdered. If you cannot fight to kill, then you need to avoid conflict altogether. Rely on stealth to stay out of danger. In today' litigious society, your position has merit. However in the world of Mad Max it is kill or be killed.

Dear sonofliberty,We are Sorry that you took what we said at face value and misunderstood the meaning behind.You have to use the situation at hand to do what you have to do. If you need to kill to survive you have to do it. These naive people talk about learning martial arts,but they do not realise that it takes years and years,with lots of practice to be able to use what you learn and practice effectively. In the movies it looks easy and impressive,but in real combat,no punches are pulled. The simple but effective tactics in the mentioned type of martial arts are learning the body points that can immediately disable and imobilise an assailant without being good at martial arts.I have learned aikido,judo,karate and taekwando from a very young age and many friends are black belt holders who used to teach martial arts.
You young people, Do not be taken in by those fantastic scenes in Movies! In a real fight it is totally different.
In be able to use what you are learning effectively you have to practice and practice not only alone but to test it with sparing partners so that it becomes a second reflective ability to you,otherwise what you are learning will be of no use to you. Talk is easy but do you think that you can really remember how to use it or just freeze up in fear! You can say you will do it but if you are not practicing it you wont know .