Best martial art for survival when the brown stuff starts flying around

Originally posted by DragonSpirit2
Hey there I have read most of the posts on this topic so far which is 8 pages. There seems to be a lot of back and forth over what is effective. Some of you agree a good bit and some of you say no no that's not the way, this way is better. I tend to find that anyone that says this way or that way is "the way" or "the best way" is very close minded. (snipped long quote)

This is a great post, and shows that you are a real martial artist, not just a theorist. I agree about what you said about survival situations. Weapons first, hand-to-hand second (depending on the scenario of course).

Throat strikes are intensely painful. At my school we train with moderate contact. We make contact and you know when your training partner got through your defenses. We get bruised, and busted lips on a daily basis. Even though we do not strike vital points in training, accidents happen. One of my brothers popped me good in the Adam's Apple with moderate force, and it nearly dropped to my knees. I had to stop for a bit to recover before I continued training. I have taken shots all over my body and face with moderate force in my training, and while some of them smart or ring your bell, nothing has come close to the pain from the throat strike. I can't even imagine what a full power strike to the throat would feel like.

Another one that cannot be understated is the eyes. Even just brushing someone's eyes with your fingertips will cause them to close up and water, let alone actually striking or gouging them.

#1 Regardless of MA specialty: run.

#2 Regardless of MA specialty: attempt to cripple or kill with as little energy as possible.

#3 Regardless of MA specialty: Your dead meat if you adhere to any one particular discipline in a situation where there are no rules.

But if I had to pick I'd say Wang Chung. "You can dance if you want to..."

reply to post by OoohLaDeDa


I think the gist everyone is collectively giving in the thread you have created is summed up as "Jack of all trades" If you look past all the arguing between the users and focus on the their main post and points I'm sure you'll find that there isn't a Best when it comes to survival. The best thing you can do is become as rounded as you can. If you learn key point from all forms of survival you will be able last longer then those who don't. Basically you want learn just enough to be able to counter most of what comes at you. Fighting someone who is more skilled in standing combat, counter by taking to the ground. Fighting someone who skilled in ground combat start putting distance between you and him and when you get a change use what you have learned in joint(lock) manipulation and etc etc

Above all else use your well versed brain/mind. Fight smart, you never know whats going to come next.Fighting hand to hand waste time and energy avoid what you can and end some before they start through any means you find fit. That means if shooting them will get the job done faster then do so, if you feel someone might turn into a problem later down the road don't hesitate to take them out better safe then sorry. Your only out for yourself and family/firends, morals get thrown at the window when your life or other on on the line You must always tip the balance to your favor it wont always been pretty, or a scene straight out of hollywood but it will keep you alive a little longer in the those SHTF moment.

reply to post by 10001110101


Agreed but wang chung style is "everybody have fun tonight".
Men without Hats is "Safety Dance".
This was a pain free lesson my Padawan, do not let this happen in combat as your opponent will surely get the step on you!
Much love.

Originally posted by Testsubject3
reply to post by OoohLaDeDa

 

I think the gist everyone is collectively giving in the thread you have created is summed up as "Jack of all trades" If you look past all the arguing between the users and focus on the their main post and points I'm sure you'll find that there isn't a Best when it comes to survival. The best thing you can do is become as rounded as you can. If you learn key point from all forms of survival you will be able last longer then those who don't. Basically you want learn just enough to be able to counter most of what comes at you. Fighting someone who is more skilled in standing combat, counter by taking to the ground. Fighting someone who skilled in ground combat start putting distance between you and him and when you get a change use what you have learned in joint(lock) manipulation and etc etc

Above all else use your well versed brain/mind. Fight smart, you never know whats going to come next.Fighting hand to hand waste time and energy avoid what you can and end some before they start through any means you find fit. That means if shooting them will get the job done faster then do so, if feel someone might turn into a problem later down the road don't hesitate to take them out better safe then sorry. Your only out for yourself and family/firends, morals get thrown at the window when your life or other on on the line You must always tip the balance to your favor it wont always been pretty, or a scene straight out of hollywood but it will keep you alive a little longer in the those SHTF moment.

The obvious caveat to what you are saying here is that there must be practice, practice, practice, or you won't have ingrained any of those skills you are dabbling in. This is a major reason why I believe going and learning at least one full system where you can practice with others and test the truth of what you are learning on a daily basis is vitally important. You will also build relationships with your fellow students and teachers, and you can bounce ideas from the other arts you are learning off of them. You may even find that given enough practice, your main art covers most of this stuff, or at least well enough that you won't have to quit your job and become a full time martial artist working in multiple styles.

reply to post by OoohLaDeDa


Krav Maga has a great track record for being particularly useful in the real world....plus it has no rules, and incorporates anything that works basically....so I'd go with that. Your best bet though is to actually get into the ring. Whether it be a Full Contact ring in UFC style, or even a regular Boxing Ring. Plenty of Martial Artists can make it through all the way to black belt (or whatever their respective way of honoring degrees is) and yet will get their butt handed to them in the first real street fight they get into. This is mainly because of the physiological difference that your body goes through when you are in an actual fight....Adrenalin along with countless other process change the way you feel when you are in a real fight. While you may be a wonderful 'fighter' sparing in the dojo...you may find yourself suddenly unable to do a lot of the fancy moves you were taught....Certain things will work better in such a situation than they would in a low contact sparing match done for points rather than a knockout.

Whatever you do don't misunderstand me and think you I'm suggesting you get into real fights on the street to learn...that would be a mistake. Fighting in the ring will at the very least get you more accustomed to what it FEELS like to be in an actual fight...then you can adjust your style as needed. Some people are effected different ways by the physiological changes....so it's a very personal thing you must learn for yourself.

Originally posted by JAGx1981
I used to be a boxer I was 2-0 1 KO, I was with one of my friends a few months ago on ESPN 2 Friday night fights to help him out, although he lost. I got out of it cause I found my calling in a different arena of life and the knockout I had on someone made me feel to bad cause he was hurt, it wasn't for me.


On Martials arts you can't go wrong really in the end. I am a 3rd degree blackbelt in Shotokan my brother a 8th, Thats my choice mixed with boxing and I dabble with a little of everything, I actually call my style '' The universal adaptive '' . lol

I think Martial arts is there for a purpose alot of people overlook, yes it's for self defense, but in the end once you climb the ladder in belts, you find it's more of self discipline.

In any fight even if you have a 10 th degree black belt in ANYTHING, you will get your ass whipped if you cannot control the arts between the ears. Martial arts can only take you so far. All in the mind my friends.

edit on 29-5-2011 by JAGx1981 because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-5-2011 by JAGx1981 because: spelling error

I think that's something a lot of people overlook. The physical of any discipline can be taught, with relative ease. It's the mental that's the main barrier.

It's my opinion that most people practicing Martial Arts are competent in street fights, not because of any physical superiority or trained physical ability - Rather the mental ability to stay composed. 98%(I made this up) of people fight on adrenaline, if you can control yourself and consciously do battle you're likely to pick apart a windmilling drunkard with relative ease.

In contrast, you can have all the belts in the world and come undone in a real life situation if the adrenaline and anxiety takes over. And it takes over alot more people than not, even trained athletes. If you ever watch out of the ring brawls and fights at press conferences or w/e between professional fighters, notice their technique goes out the window and they swing haymakers like lunatics. That's the adrenaline and anxiety.

Also some guys are just born to fight and some not. An athlete for example is always going to have a natural advantage over anyone else. A big guy over a small guy, no matter how much my fellow midgets like to protest the fact.

I reckon a Buddhist Monk with natural athleticism and combat training could take apart most people

i havent read much of this thread yet but when hearing the question which martial art is best

heres my opinion based on experience

it doesnt matter, if all you do is study some martial art in a wide open room it doesnt mean a damn thing as far as actual combat goes

ive seen many so called martial arts experts get their ass handed to them in a real street fight

ive also seen so called military guys also have their asses handed to them

if the brown stuff starts flying and you rely on hand to hand, chances are high you wont be around long

even the best ufc fighter or trained killer will more then likely at least be injured in a real fight unless he is going up against a much less dangerous opponent and even then the person could simply get lucky


if brown stuff starts flying be smart, avoid all hand to hand combat situations and have other options accessible

im not saying its impossible to win hand to hand, ive seen one person take on groups and win almost unscathed

but when hospitals are there at a moments notice and civilization is turned upside down even the best hand to hand man should avoid hand to hand at all costs


like it or not, thats real

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by JAGx1981
I used to be a boxer I was 2-0 1 KO, I was with one of my friends a few months ago on ESPN 2 Friday night fights to help him out, although he lost. I got out of it cause I found my calling in a different arena of life and the knockout I had on someone made me feel to bad cause he was hurt, it wasn't for me.


On Martials arts you can't go wrong really in the end. I am a 3rd degree blackbelt in Shotokan my brother a 8th, Thats my choice mixed with boxing and I dabble with a little of everything, I actually call my style '' The universal adaptive '' . lol

I think Martial arts is there for a purpose alot of people overlook, yes it's for self defense, but in the end once you climb the ladder in belts, you find it's more of self discipline.

In any fight even if you have a 10 th degree black belt in ANYTHING, you will get your ass whipped if you cannot control the arts between the ears. Martial arts can only take you so far. All in the mind my friends.

edit on 29-5-2011 by JAGx1981 because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-5-2011 by JAGx1981 because: spelling error

I think that's something a lot of people overlook. The physical of any discipline can be taught, with relative ease. It's the mental that's the main barrier.

It's my opinion that most people practicing Martial Arts are competent in street fights, not because of any physical superiority or trained physical ability - Rather the mental ability to stay composed. 98%(I made this up) of people fight on adrenaline, if you can control yourself and consciously do battle you're likely to pick apart a windmilling drunkard with relative ease.

In contrast, you can have all the belts in the world and come undone in a real life situation if the adrenaline and anxiety takes over. And it takes over alot more people than not, even trained athletes. If you ever watch out of the ring brawls and fights at press conferences or w/e between professional fighters, notice their technique goes out the window and they swing haymakers like lunatics. That's the adrenaline and anxiety.

Also some guys are just born to fight and some not. An athlete for example is always going to have a natural advantage over anyone else. A big guy over a small guy, no matter how much my fellow midgets like to protest the fact.

I reckon a Buddhist Monk with natural athleticism and combat training could take apart most people

i agree with everything you say except about size

i have seen many big men fall hard to people you would think you should have no fear of

reply to post by OoohLaDeDa


First, I believe in the teachings of Bruce Lee, that no one art is better than any other art, it is always the individual practitioner. One needs to find the weapons that work best for him or herself; everyone has different skills, body types and talents, and their individual weapons will be based on these.
I'm glad you wrote this thread, I have studied karate, Hapkido and Kung Fu, and I always recommend martial arts to everyone for any need they ask me about. I have always said that if someone has a firm understanding and expertise in Hapkido and Kung Fu, only a weapon or too many rivals will defeat him.
I also recommend everyone gain some experience in spinning a bow staff or cane around, in whatever fashion fits their own selves. Depending on you and where you are, there is more often a stick, broom or mop handle or the like readily available than any other type weapon; I suppose a blade would be second.
That being said, in a manure being flung through the proverbial blades type scenario, I would actually hope that anyone with any form of martial arts experience would have the mental self control enough to only use their skills to help or protect, not to harm others. We'll have enough trained troops to worry about.
Peace and One Love!

reply to post by JeepOrDie


BJJ is using body postioning and leverage, not strength. Beginners make the mistake of muscling through moves. We have a 60ish year old instructor that rolls with teenagers and twenty-somethings and he submits them.

hope i inbeded the video correctly but this guy used to be my instructor. point any style is dangerous if you train at it. which is why boxers beat martial artists in bar/street fights all the time. the training for boxing is brutal and ussually 5 days a week while most martial artists go 2 days and rarley work out on their days off. no style works if its just a hobby against a real threat. ufc training is probably the most evloved hybrid style out but look at how those guys train cause thats what it takes.for the purposes your talking about military knife fighting and probably some form of advanced stick fighting why would you risk a hand to hand fight against even a weak looking opponent during the zombie apocolypse? p.s. cant get video up but if u go to utube and search" grandmaster byrne breaking 15 boards with an elbow "

reply to post by OoohLaDeDa


muay thai, its effective and you don't have to be a master to use it to defend yourself. you should come and learn in thailand, it's really cheap to learn here plus you are learning from the source. most thai's know at least some, it's pretty common, if you walk into any pharmacy, you will see medicine for internal bleeding on the front shelf no joke

MMA tournaments across the world have repeatedly proven that steroids are the best martial art.

I just want to make it known, that I am not arguing "my" style is better than anything else. Only that I am happy with it and that it has worked for me in the past.

Also, regarding Bruce Lee; I think it is natural for any martial artist to branch out and study different styles. I also think that comes when you stop "thinking" about what you are doing. I believe that Bruce's philosophy is a part of the natural evolution of any student of the martial arts whether you study the philosophy or not.

I think of it like music. You generally start interested or playing in a certain style. The more you learn, the more you want to learn, and you realize that you cannot learn everything playing in one style. Eventually you start taking out things from various styles and you develop your own sound.

reply to post by yourmaker


Hi all, I'm new to this so please bear with me, though I've been checking out this site for years now. I agreee no martial art is the best and it's the person who makes it work or not. I've been studying the arts for around 25 yrs and came to 1 conclusion. BOTTLE !!! I've been in pubs/clubs when it's about to kick off and I've been having the usual fight or flight symptoms......shaking legs, palpitations and absolute terror/fear and for around 10 of my 25yrs I was completely ignorant. Having been able to kick ceilings and do all the fancy stuff, having people in my home town know what I was into and be wary of me, being able to give people a bleachin' at sparring (Muay Thai and JKD) when the reality was............ 'I was a big #e bag' Then I started training with Dave Turton and reading up on Geoff Thomson and simulating violence with all it's expletives. Honestly, I'd get nervous/anxiety just going to training. But I wouldn't change it for the world. These classes had no ego's as everyone was scared.......and it's the most natural feeling in the world........1 that most are sanitized to. So there you are.....without BOTTLE it's all a nieve and ill informed

Originally posted by jimnuggits
When the stuff hits the fan, Martial Arts will be equitable to dancing, or tennis, in that they are all positive extracurricular activities.

When it all comes down, violence will cease to be seen as a viable solution to any problem.

.

Boy are you in for a shock.

Originally posted by lilymurray
reply to post by yourmaker

 

Hi all, I'm new to this so please bear with me, though I've been checking out this site for years now. I agreee no martial art is the best and it's the person who makes it work or not. I've been studying the arts for around 25 yrs and came to 1 conclusion. BOTTLE !!! I've been in pubs/clubs when it's about to kick off and I've been having the usual fight or flight symptoms......shaking legs, palpitations and absolute terror/fear and for around 10 of my 25yrs I was completely ignorant. Having been able to kick ceilings and do all the fancy stuff, having people in my home town know what I was into and be wary of me, being able to give people a bleachin' at sparring (Muay Thai and JKD) when the reality was............ 'I was a big #e bag' Then I started training with Dave Turton and reading up on Geoff Thomson and simulating violence with all it's expletives. Honestly, I'd get nervous/anxiety just going to training. But I wouldn't change it for the world. These classes had no ego's as everyone was scared.......and it's the most natural feeling in the world........1 that most are sanitized to. So there you are.....without BOTTLE it's all a nieve and ill informed

Yes, good point. So ideally any training would do well to incorporate something that will stimulate those fight or flight responses? That idea makes a lot of sense. I suppose that would only come from training of a form where there is a lot of physical contact involved.
This is making me lean towards in theory training at least one very physical art with lots of sparring or something along those lines, then maybe a very direct art designed to dispatch your opponent swiftly.
Only problem there being the lack of enough time to dedicate to learning two different arts.
All very interesting discussion on the subject.

I say Wing Chun, with some serious Chin Na and Seven Star Mantis combined with some wrestling to deal with hitting the ground.

reply to post by OoohLaDeDa


For myself and I'm sure the rest of the class, I think the most important thing is to train in a manner that someone is F'ing and Blinding ...right in your face, goading you into a response. We would train with our arms splayed or pointing in your victims face where your mind can't differentiate what's real and what's not..... and we had a guy who was one of Ricky Hattons minders.....who said he was always #ting himself at the thought of violence, but the more you do it the more you get used to it.....though the initial fear never goes away.......anyway......best wishes