Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

The articles and books I have read on obesity strongly link genes and DNA to obesity.

Such books are mainly propaganda from the socialist/leftist sector of society that thinks people are not responsible for their fate and require welfare. 9 out of 10 obese people are obese due to overeating and lack of exercise. if it were any different you would find just as many obese people in Europe. But you dont.

I am so upset with this wanton attack on fat people. Attack something else you skinny bastards or else I'll sit on you!!! AND I'll break wind!!! I just ate a F-F-F-fava bean humus and you are in for it skinny bastard! I may be fat but I am SO SEXY!!!!

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

The articles and books I have read on obesity strongly link genes and DNA to obesity.

Such books are mainly propaganda from the socialist/leftist sector of society that thinks people are not responsible for their fate and require welfare. 9 out of 10 obese people are obese due to overeating and lack of exercise. if it were any different you would find just as many obese people in Europe. But you dont.

edit on 19-5-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

I agree with you on many posts but this part is nonsense. I didn't need the studies, but there are many. Every single time they try to tailer make adults or infants to some hollywood standard they are acting like EVIL and VAIN frivolous dark sider, fools.

People's weights are known, by the valid studies, to vary according to: inheritance, sex (women hold weight by the average after pregenancy and their metabolisms slow down. Also, dieting upsets your system. It goes into protection mode and guards the fat cells, so that, in the future, you end having to eat next to nothing, and short your energy, body, brain and health to maintain weight. So does fasting. Its a real rip off.

The foods they say are good, are poison, the foods they demonize are good for you.

They can take flying leap in a rolling doughnut and shave big fat zeros on their heads, and stand in the corner singing a mantra, oh what an _______ am I? Because we don't need any lies and distrortions and control.

Health is more important than hollywood standards, and humiltiy is what alot of people need to learn, they mostly won't look the same in their 40's 50's and 60's as they 16-30.

And who really cares. Your spirit isn't overweight, too thin, too tall, too short, pidgeon toed, doens't have a speech impediment, doesn't need glasses, but if you're filled with Unconditional Love and see through the traps of the world, including any form of prejudice, your soul is so beautiful.

I'm not about to waste a moment listing the studies. I've done it before, but you know. People are responsible for waking up and seeing clearly, for asking questions and seeking within.

Long before the more recent studies, I noted my family. We have very thin ones, and medium ones, and a few overweight ones. Only one of the overweight ones eats a bit too much, though she got more excercise than my shut in relative that is overweight though eats 1/2 as much as the thin ones. So once in a while you get a person who went through some kind of emotional trauma clinging to food, but mostly you get Real Life: metabolism, health issues, childbirth, brown fat/white fat, men have more brown and marathons cause them to loose a little weight, but women don't usually lose, their bodies cling, something to do with long term survival and looking after dependents.

People need to #1. Stop judging others over anything. They have no right to even look at another person, think a bad thought, unless they have something good, positive and loving to say. PERIOD.

#2. Listen to them. They know their own systems. Start to listen to each other, walk in everyones shoes and grow up.

Because Mom and Dad made us all different, in looks, weights, abilities, intelligence, sexes, sexual orientation, wellness, as a challenge to us, to overcome our prejudice.

Everythings a test. There is right and wrong answer.

But you know what, just in case 99% of the people are failing tests here, I will never allow anyone to put anyone down in my presence and will never follow bad orders. Not even once.

reply to post by neformore


Why not they make good drivers pay for the bad drivers and pass off the higher rates to the good drivers so the bad drivers can afford insurance.

Go figure.

I can seee this coming a mile away. Make the people fat by telling them they need to consume low fat stuff and then make all their low fat stuff high in carbs so they really get fat.

Lettle do people know that this is what really happen . And then the say holy # look hpw fat the people are getting.

Ok lets tax them for being fat.

Fokers.

reply to post by Unity_99

And who really cares. Your spirit isn't overweight, too thin, too tall, too short, pidgeon toed, doens't have a speech impediment, doesn't need glasses, but if you're filled with Unconditional Love and see through the traps of the world, including any form of prejudice, your soul is so beautiful.

Respect, that's really well worded. People really lean too much on physical appearance as a form of value. Fortunately, I'm extremely good looking but the one I hate with a passion is:

'Yeah their boyfriend/girlfriend is so ugly, they could do so much better'

This is just a small article, loosegarments.wordpress.com...

But there is actually links between DIETING and not only gaining the weight back, but obesity. In other words, statistically your chance of becoming obese by dieting is very very high. It has to do with some very complex survival mechanism in the body,and the brain runs the programs.

Unless you are always binging, diet is best achieved by: cutting out junk food. But rewarding yourself with your favorite desert twice a month. Eating as much fruit and vegetable as you want. Raw food diet if you can afford dental and have good teeth is great, but somewhat expensive. So an indoor/outdoor garden and growing some greens and heritage tomatoes is good. Increasing your toning by gradually increasing excercise or activity which works if you're not disabled in any way, in which case, LOVE YOUR LIFE. Enjoy it, to the fullest and work on the things that really matter, good relationships wtih others, learning, seeing positive. Because this stuff doesnt matter. Its just VANITY.

Most of the ones too thin are in far worse health shape than the overweight. Its far more dangerous to your heart to be 10 lbs underweight than overweight.

Also, in addition, if someone really is interested in gradually toning up a bit, the raw food and fruit diet even 3 times a week does give weight loss, but you need to have some power foods with it or you get weak and hungry. Nibble on cheese or eggs. Egg diets are very successful in Europe for weight loss, as they provide fat with the right kind of stuff, the stuff that cleanses your articles, so its like sunlight, that has UV A and UV B, and UV A is the bad stuff (the ones they let in with sunscreen but UV B is absolutely needed for disease fighting and health, thats the one they block in sunscreens, that is why sunscreens raise your chance of getting cancer), and the studies done show: That workers who get lots of sunshine outside, have the lowest rates of cancer, just like the Australian lifeguard study!!!! So taking in both, with the good protects you. Eggs are like this too! Protein and the right kind of fat, a very good thing to take along with fruit and veggies.

But most importantly, learn about your body chemistry. We eat unhealthy foods. We eat white bleached flours, instead of whole grain (and often GMO) and we need good healthy heritage grains instead. Even buying some heritage wheat and rye and sprouting it and making homemade sprouted bread is better than white.

And, we have our thyroids and metabolisms inundated with their Radiative Isotopes which is deliberate on their part. And then their poisons. So trying to choose the best foods and the lowest cost, grow our own, make our own yogurts and cheeses, breads is good.

Never starve yourself when you are hungry. Don't diet, or your brain will go into survival mode. Jusf find something healthy or good to satisfy yourself.

Excercise.

And also, eat the right foods in the right combos as much as possible. Proteins take an acid digestive juice to break down, starches take an alkaline fluid. When you put alkalines and acids together in a petri dish, they cancel out. So you have nothing to digest or break down your food. This leads to many health problems.

Steak and potatoes don't go together. Speghetti and meat balls. Don't mix starches and proteins for 5 or 6 days a week and yet eat when you need to. Eat fruit by itself as much as possible for it has its own digestive juices.

And love yourself the way you are, big/small, fat/thin, young/old, no matter what your form, you're beautiful, and don't every let anyone put you down or control you. Dont listen to the lack of information and in fact, the minute you read recommended foods, study it more deeply, its usually a trap.

As for poor people, theres another group to stop bashing. We're the majority. The middle class are small minority enslaved by the bloodlines, but they have perks, they have money, toys and think they're so special and virtuous and good. While the rest of humanity, with very unequal circumstances, and conditions are treated like scum by these "virtuous" ones. Do you want to know the purpose for this little rose colored glasses, can't see clearly, group is? To continue to vote in the bad guys who walk over the world like nazi's with spiked boots and cause as much pain and suffering as they can to feed the shadow side dracos and feeders, the critters and vamps, they thrive off human pain and suffering like a virus, as they didn't chose to pass the unconditional love tests so far, and are cut off from their source. So their surivival or growth is all about harming others.

Thats the reality of the whole reason this world is the way it is.

And the ones I like the most are the poor, the majority citizen of this planet. They're also the most awake. They get it!

The devil rewards his own. Most people look to credentials and what qualifies you to speak. Its the opposite, that counts. The more successful, in most cases, the more corrupt. I see more purity in a homeless druggie's eyes, and humility.

Perhaps the main problem for some people can be the genetics in combination with the LACK of EXERCISE i.e burning those calories?

I usually eat rather healthy, and have been doing so as long as I can remember - but if I don't combine this with any exercise, I gain weight quite quick and easily in comparison to my few years older sister who can eat whatever she wants, how much she wants + NEVER doing any damn exercises whatsoever and still stay ultra slim!

I on the other hand have to be more careful with how much I eat of certain foods, and preferably not consume too much fatty junk food, candy/sugar & sodas etc, especially if I'm in a period of not doing any exercises.

I still think it's strange that I and her have so very different metabolism.

When I was in the military I never had any problems of gaining any extra overweight beside muscle mass - because there was plenty of daily exercise and hard training, even as the food at the same time was often very energy-rich and fatty. But of course, we mostly burned those calories during the days.

In today's high tech Western society many people (unfortunately) also don't get the daily exercise they really need through/from some old school hard physical work (unless you're doing a lot of running around between places) and many are sitting down most of the day in offices at their desk or without moving themselves too much during the day. And when they are coming home at the end of the day, many are too tired mentally to motivate any personal form of physical exercises, beside some family/children/household stuff and perhaps making love a couple of times a week!

Thankfully, I've always managed to lose those accumulated extra kilos rather quick and easily as well when I finally decide it's time to get my ass away from the couch/computor and begin an intense personal campaign of exercise for some months, lol!

But as you're getting older, it takes longer time and more heavy exercise for each time, getting back into shape and be fit again.

Do you wanna know what sloth is? It has nothing to do with weight or energy levels or health conditions, not even how tidy your home is, for that is related the other things too. My home goes from messy to neater, depending on the SUN LIGHT and energy that I get. One day shutting down with rain, then the sun comes out a couple days in a row and I start cleaning. I have 100% non functioning thyroid and chronic fatigue, having had 2 heart attacks. There are days when I have to limit, and shedule going up the stairs, or I bottom out and then am sick for weeks. I have learnt how to avoid getting nonstop sick as, unless there's sunshine, I am sick from Sept - April nearly ever year.

Sloth has nothing to do with outward form in body or environment. That has to do with energy and health. It has to do with, faith, and trust, and turning negatives into positives, and doing the work you need to try to solve problems and especially this? Saying yes to God/Goodness and then carrying through. In other words, doing the work you came to do. This can carry through in your outer world, or not, because sometimes you are kept humble, just so you know not to judge by outer appearances, and its not you doing it, its Grace doing things through you.

This whole thread is about fascism and EGO/VANITY. The intention of those making laws is to cause as much suffering as possible. Enforcing poor diets will only lead to poor health an an increase in obesity for most people.

The problem with the poor is they have so low self esteem and are always put down, that they may see the world, but can't speak up.

But I keep envisioning in meditations and with emotions, high frequency, a world where the change happens, from the bottom up and the poor find their voices and say, hell NO, with bullhorns if necessary. Bullhorns and speaking up loudly is Assertiveness, I don't support violence/agressiveness.

Despite my health, I do notice that the work I do in meditations and sungazing, and especially Faith in Family really improves things. By choosing not to see this world and its negativity as anything other than something we need to turn around. But that is part of the tests here. Its not something you can force on others. And we can't judge anyones life, because God/Goodness is asking us to not express ego, but humble ourselves, and if you build yourself up, you're only going to take a huge tumble down.

Originally posted by Unity_99

People's weights are known, by the valid studies, to vary according to: inheritance

If weight is according to inheritance or genetics, where are the Obese people in Prison? Where are all the obese Europeans?

American Obesity is due corn syrup, sugar, supposedly "no fat" foods, carbs and lack of exercise.

Originally posted by Unity_99


And who really cares. Your spirit isn't overweight,

The body is the temple and reflection of the spirit.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Where are all the obese Europeans?

Really?


Britain is almost overtaking the US in terms of obesity.... Sad but true.


news.bbc.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.dailymail.co.uk...


www.firstnews.co.uk...




Also fat people should be fined for overeating.

Not fat people who have genetic issues or glandular problems or who are on steroids for medical reasons.... health reasons are exempt.


But fat people who are fat because they eat too much.... fat people who are just lazy and fat because they don't do anything but eat.... they don't work because they claim disability allowance.... and all.... because they're fat.


First I'd try and help them and get them into an exercise scheme.... if that failed.... then yeah, bring out the fines.


The amount of money spent on the health issues that obesity causes, are far more than the cost of just getting these people "fit and active"

reply to post by neformore

Also - whats next? Extra tax on smokers? Drinkers? People with a sweet tooth? Where does it end?

You are correct. It is a foot in the door for complete control.

Worse most of the blasted doctors do NOT take courses in nutrition. Only 6% or so study nutrition at medical school The USDA is promoting Big Ag profits, NOT health with their upside down food pyramid. Heck Monsanto's lawyer, Mike Taylor, now runs the FDA!

See this Metabolism Conference: report. It has easy read one paragraph synopsis of the recent studies.

GRAIN IS A SLOW POISON:
www.krispin.com...
www.healthyeatingclub.org...

Originally posted by blupblup
[

Really?


Britain is almost overtaking the US in terms of obesity.... Sad but true.

The epidemic has been catching up to Britain a little. But it is still far away from American proportions. I know because I travel back and forth at least once a year.

The reason the French, Greek, Japanese and a few others are almost never obese is because they have other eating habits. "Genetics" or "Illness" is only a very, very small part of it.

There are more obese people in America than in the world put together. Thats not because of genetics.

Anyone ever see obese people in pictures of gulags, concentration camps, prison camps? I wonder why not. If its genetic, there must be some obese prisoners? With very few exceptions, the only obese people in prisons are cops.

Originally posted by Unity_99
People need to #1. Stop judging others over anything. They have no right to even look at another person, think a bad thought, unless they have something good, positive and loving to say. PERIOD.

There is right and wrong answer.

Telling fat people how they can lose weight is not "judging them", its helping them.

reply to post by arollingstone

It's one of the hardest things to do in the world in my opinion, I'd find it much easier to quit smoking.

That is where we differ. I am trying to quit smoking again. I would happily refrain from dinner for a number of days for one Camel.

The difference is our expectations of imediate graification. I let that be my down fall in the past. If I didn't lose 5 pound in a week I was destroyed. Then I tried to mimic some of those "Biggest Loser" type of progams. Then I found out that they have all kinds of health problems that the show hides. Eventually I found a book entitled "You Are Your Own Gym." It is written by Mark Lauren a military special ops guy. He is honest about what is healthy and what weight loss to expect. He actually encourages only aiming for about 1 pound a week.

For somebody that is 200lbs over weight that isn't the best plan. For a guy like me that was about 40 pounds over weight it is just fine.

Indeed that is one example, another example is those with psychological issues. E.g. unknowingly eating to fill a void or because that's the only happiness/stimulation one may have in their life.

You can still have great food and lose weight. However, you are probably talking more about bingers or "bored eaters." I was one of those people for a long time. I would eat because I was bored or because the taste of a great bit of food was a distraction.

I guess what I was trying to say is that the actual mechanics of losing weight isn't hard at all. It is rather simple. Cut your caloric intake. If you want to be 190lbs then find out how many calories a day you can take in with your activity level and go for it. Here is a simple calculator. You choose your gender, put in the weight you want to be, your height, age, and your activity level. Then hit enter and it will tell you how many calories per day to eat.

For me the number is 2,200 calories. At first it was a struggle to get that low. Now, I struggle to get 2,200 calories total. This morning I had two microwave burritos for 600 calories. I'm going to eat some soup for lunch. That plus the tropical trail mix I have for a snack will put me at 900. I'll eat about 800 for dinner and still have 500 to go. If I skip the trail mix I could actually squeeze in a Big Mac. I won't do it but I could.

Being fat has nothing to do with tax, its a ridiculous suggestion as I'm sure you will agree.

Most definitely. I'm just laid up with a lung infection and looking to pick a fight with the world.

reply to post by Skyfloating


BS Sky, my mother ate less in 24 hours than you probably do in one meal.............she walked miles a day because she worked at Browns Shoe Company in St. Louis and had to take three buses in order to get me to a nursery school/day care and than to her work................my mother ate little to nothing as did my sister.

I asked my sister how she was able to stay thin, and she said "I don't eat" and my sister very rarely ate, she at 5'7" ate even less than my mother did.

Many people are fat because they over eat yes, but I myself cannot go over 1,000 calories a day except if I do a mile in 30 minutes with a incline of 10 and I'm still fighting weight.

My doctor agrees, it's basically genes/DNA...........................do your research, it's out there.

So far scientists have picked up on 16 different genes that determine how well your body stores or lets go of fat.

I am constantly cold, always hungry (dream about food every night)...............you have no idea and have not done your research.

Obesity gene acts on DNA
5 November 2007

British scientists have made a second breakthrough in under a year in understanding why some people are more liable to gain weight than others.

The Oxford University team, led by Professor Chris Schofield, has been studying FTO, a gene that earlier this year was linked to obesity. In a report of their research, published online this week in Science, the scientists show that the protein corresponding to the FTO is an enzyme, or biological catalyst, that modifies DNA.

Previously, researchers discovered that one variant of the FTO gene causes an average increase in weight of 3kg. However, they were unable to determine what the gene does and why the variant leads to weight gain.

In the new study the team found that, remarkably, the FTO protein resembles enzymes that produce the penicillin antibiotics in bacteria and others that enable humans to sense and respond to changes in oxygen levels – for instance at high altitude. FTO is most closely related to the AlkB family of enzymes that in bacteria repair DNA damaged by chemicals.


The team of Oxford, Cambridge and London scientists went on to show that purified FTO can carry out this repair role and that the FTO protein is targeted to the cell nucleus as expected for a protein that modifies DNA.


Oxford researcher Professor Chris Ponting, one of the key scientists involved, commented: ‘this is an astonishing finding. We never expected this first ‘obesity gene’ to have such a direct effect on DNA’. The Cambridge group led by Professor Steve O’Rahilly discovered that the FTO gene is turned on in regions of the brain concerned with appetite regulation and that FTO levels decrease following fasting.


Professor Frances Ashcroft, a member of the Oxford team, said: ‘obesity is a rapidly growing problem worldwide that significantly enhances the risk of diabetes, cardiac disease, high blood pressure and cancer.’

This breakthrough provides new leads for investigations into how chemical changes to our DNA cause an increase in fat mass and will ultimately help in the development of new drugs to treat obesity.


For more information contact Professor Chris Schofield on +44 (01865) 275625 or email [email protected] or contact Professor Frances Ashcroft on +44 (01865) 285810 or email [email protected]

Alternatively contact the University of Oxford Press Office on +44 (01865) 283877 or email [email protected]




Notes to Editors
*A report of the research entitled ‘The Obesity-Associated FTO Gene Encodes a 2-Oxoglutarate-Dependent Nucleic Acid Demethylase’ will be published online in Science Express on 8 November 2007.

*The team was led by Professor Chris Schofield of Oxford University’s Department of Chemistry with Professor Chris Ponting and Professor Frances Ashcroft from Oxford’s Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics and, at the University of Cambridge, by Professor Steve O’Rahilly.

*In the UK it is estimated that 20% of men and 25% of women are obese, and that as many as 30,000 people die prematurely from obesity-related conditions every year. At the current rate of increase, three-quarters of the UK population could be overweight by 2025. Obesity-related conditions are expensive to treat and cost the NHS at least £500m a year.

Source; Oxford University

and this

Chemical patterns on DNA mark out obesity genes
17:45 16 September 2010 by Andy Coghlan
For similar stories, visit the Genetics Topic Guide
Your genes play a big part in determining your body shape, but that role may not have been set in stone when your parents' egg and sperm got together. It now looks like chemical changes that happen to genes over a person's lifetime may influence how fat they become, without altering their inherited DNA sequences.

This is the first time that prolonged chemical changes to genes during life have been implicated in obesity and body weight.

The findings add to the mounting evidence that it's not only genes that dictate important bodily traits – environmental cues and conditions may also affect such traits by altering gene activity. These "epigenetic" changes influence whether genes are on or off, but do not change the DNA sequence.

The latest findings relate to epigenetic changes which involve methylation, the process by which the addition of chemicals called methyl groups to DNA can turn genes on or off, or moderate a gene's activity by changing the way it is read.

Icelandic obesity
A team led by Andrew Feinberg of Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, Maryland, and Daniele Fallin of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, also in Baltimore, mapped methylation in the DNA of 74 adults with a range of body types, looking for patterns that seemed likely to have been prolonged and set early in life, or even in the womb.

To do this, they first screened the volunteers' DNA in 1991, and picked out 227 regions with methylation patterns that varied between the individual members of the group by an unusually large amount. They then screened the same people in 2002 to distinguish which methylation patterns had not changed over the 11 years, reasoning that the variation in these patterns must have occurred early in life, then become fixed, having a persistent effect on traits such as body weight or intelligence.

Of the 227 methylated sites, 119 were found to be the same in 2002 as they had been 11 years earlier. Feinberg and Fallin then matched these groups to the body type of the individual. They found 13 methylated genes that were more likely to be present in the participants who were overweight or obese.

These chemical changes could have arisen in response to environmental conditions, such as the childhood diet of the individual or even of their mother during pregnancy.

"We don't know yet the degree to which genes and environment add up to give these stable methylation changes, but we believe both are important," says Feinberg.

Usual suspects
The 13 methylated genes include those that make metalloproteinase enzymes, which have already been implicated in obesity through studies on mice. Another, called PRKG1, plays a role when insects and nematodes forage for food.

The researchers caution that it is not yet possible to say whether the methylation changes are a result of environment influence, perhaps in the diet, or whether they are ultimately genetic because they are orchestrated by other genes.

But if specific methylated genes linked with obesity can be identified, they may provide new ways to screen people for risk of becoming overweight or obese. "The results do suggest the importance of including epigenetic analysis with genetic analysis in personalised medicine research to predict risk," says Feinberg.

"Relationships between epigenetic markers such as methylation patterns and particular disease or body states are hard to establish with confidence," says Bryan Turner, a geneticist at the University of Birmingham, UK.

Journal reference: Science Translational Medicine, DOI: 10.1126/scitranslmed.3001262

Both of my parents ate probably less per day than you do in one entire meal maybe two............and they were active people................yet they both were "round" not morbidly obese but hefty.

What you are, even how your brain works can be shaped partly by enviroment but it's all about the genes baby, you plant a sunflower don't expect a rose.

Have you ever worked a cattle farm?

Some bulls are worth their weight in gold because of their "good genes" while most are sent to slaughter because theirs are inferior...............ask anyone that is into raising cattle about breeding.

Genes............DNA...............Just do the research.

reply to post by neformore


While we're at it let's tax the common man for sunshine and air.

Many rich women stay thin, like Diana Spencer because they purged - they ate a whole cake and than threw it up ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh but they stayed smashingly thin.

It's now fashionable to be hateful towards fat people.

Why do people always have to have some group to pick on why can't everyone just be nice?

reply to post by TETRA.X


And that's exactly what they are doing.

You're awake and aware.

So tired of the threads that encourage hatred of a particular group..............getting old particularly here on ATS.