Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?

Good Lord. "I'm sick of welfare recipients, especially fat ones, taking MY tax money!" Are you serious? Yet another (annoying) tactic of divide and conquerism. Yet another small chip at the block of the government being allowed into every little area of our lives. Do any of you in support of this really think that if all the fatties got thin and healthy, and every welfare recipient got off the dole and etc and etc happened, that your government wouldn't find another way/reason to take the same amount or more off your paycheques every week? This is ATS!!! I thought you all knew this!

Well, due to the outbreak of healthiness, we need to work on replacing degrading healthcare equipment for the new needs of our healthy societies.

All the welfare officers, and office workers associated with welfare etc are now unemployed!

All the comapnies that made unhealthy foods have gone bankrupt and need to be bailed out so they can recalibrate their Twinkie machines into hummus-vats!

Some of you may find this post ridiculous, but it is no more ridiculous than whining because some people may or may not be knowingly or unknowingly taking advantage of a system that takes money out of the pockets out of all you hard-working people.

Guess what! Us bottom 80% are going to get screwed by the top 5. That's the way it is. If it isn't through increased taxes because of fat welfare recipients it's going to be something else. And until people get their heads out their bums and turn their energy towards these fat cats and away from nit-picking each other's foibles it's never going to change!

As for people "offended" by fat people, get a LIFE! Get a HOBBY! Why do you let the sight of a 600-pounder eating a cheeseburger ruin your day? Who cares? Live and let live! I could complain about people who wear pre-faded jeans and act like people from Jersey Shore and listen to Nickelback, but what's the point? Until I find that these individuals are douchebags I will refrain from caring and continue enjoying my day.

Uggh now I am perpetuating that against which I originally posted. Have a wonderful day everyone, and I mean that!

(and, yes, for the record, I am fat. [6'3, 280] And I smoke. And I do all sorts of other ungodly things...well not for the past year 'cause I'm needing to pass a hair follicle test for a better-paying job but will be again believe me....but I also work 70+ hours a week, every week, play in a rock and roll band, have normal blood pressure and cholesterol. And I get laid pretty regularly! hahaha. I guess it's 'cause I have, I dunno, a PERSONALITY. You whiners should look into developing one)

/drunken rant.

God, sorry folks. At least this'll be buried in the replies hahaha

How about tax breaks for thin people? Those of us who kill ourselves on the treadmill ought to be rewarded.

Same principal for healthcare. A healthy person who is fit and exercises regularly should not be paying the same premiums as an obese smoker who's at the doctor's office every other week.

Fat people might take notice if their tax dollars or healthcare premiums were on the line. It just might be enough of an incentive for obese people to lose weight.

And don't get me started on fat people on airplanes. If I have to sit next to one more 350 lb. fatty on a long flight...

Taxing or fining fat people is the moral equivelant of taxing other unhealthy lifestyles. Like smoking for instance. If you agree with the onerous taxes on cigarettes then you should agree with a "fat ass tax".

I think it should be HIGHLY encouraged to get a gym membership by our government, log the hours by the gym and give tax breaks for people who accumulate a set amount of hours. Maybe a government issues gym card or something? Their diet would be hard to monitor but a gym membership is good start. Planet fitness I think is how much? 10 bucks a month or something?

People have the freedom to eat anything they want, McDonald's, Wendy's and KFC all day everyday, don't have to exercise and they are risking there lives by this. No one looks at sodium when they look at the back of the nutrition information. Hey, it says 0 trans fat, and all natural with a 100% whole grain its got to be healthy for me! Wrong, nice marketing.

What amazes me is people who want to better their bodies by using steroids safely it is illegal by our government. They have a better workout routine and diet then 99% of American's and yet it is illegal. Go to your doctor after 30, and tell him you want Hormone Replacement Therapy, he will give it to you.

Yes, there are people who abuse steroids and they will not see results from it. If your diet and workout is not in check your going to see no improvement. Doing nothing and doing steroids you will see no results. People can die from ANYTHING if they abuse it, too much water, too many vitamins, etc. You will find the majority of users use them safely and cycle them with proper post-cycle treatment.

Deaths each year attributed to Tobacco ~ 435,000
Deaths each year attributed to Alcohol ~ 85,000
Deaths each year attributed to Obesity ~ 300,000
Deaths each year attributed to Steroids ~ 3

80% of people who have diabetics are overweight.

Just the facts

reply to post by neformore


If a person is of sound mind and chooses to intentionally not take care of themselves whether it is by being overweight, smoking etc and refuses help that is fine with me. However, I choose not to pay for them and any of their medical problems. I do not think they should be fined; I think that medicare should not pay for any particular ailment that is directly related to obesity.

This article says "overweight". Do they measure this with BMI? Having an overweight BMI doesn't make you fat. It doesn't account for muscle mass. It used to be that if your BMI was 27.8 or above you were overweight, in 1998 they changed that to 25. This automatically changed 25 million Americans from being "normal" to "overweight".

reply to post by neformore


YES because obese people are at huge risks of disease! They're disease's equal my tax dollars (I live in Canada 40 % of my taxes go straight to health care)

reply to post by neformore


YES!! And the money should go to subsidize healthy food!

reply to post by Mercurio


I read recently that they are considerring lowering it to 23.something. So how many more people would be dropped in to the overweight and obese categories?

I've got a friend that is 5'11" and 215lbs. His body fat percentage is about 6%. According to the BMI chart he is obese. However, he very obviously isn't. He works out 4 hours a day, runs marathons, and eats a completely organic diet. Yet, according to the government he is obese and unhealthy.

I don't think welfare is a bad thing, but if you're taking money from the public to live and spending it on a bunch of food you don't need to eat, I believe that is a tad bit ridiculous. Me and my wife are broke (and leaning to the left politically, btw) as hell but we have NEVER applied for government benefits like food stamps. As a smoker in WA state, I pay a huge amount of taxes on every pack, but I don't have a problem with that. Smoking is horrible for me and everyone around me, and so is over-eating. Remember that every pound of food you consume that you don't need is a drain on local food resources. Instead of a fine, they should try to get these people on some type of psychological or dietary therapy program. Too many times we keep treating the symptoms without correcting the root of the problem.

reply to post by mooseinhisglory


I agree with you 100%, the root of the problem and some government motivation couldn't hurt either.

Lot of respect for you for not taking government benefits but its people like you that deserve it, not like most other people who abuse it.

I know its easier said then done, but you should really try to stop smoking. I know people who smoked and stopped because its 10 dollars a pack now in NY, but for people who can't stop its killing their pockets because they can't stop.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by Mercurio

 

I read recently that they are considerring lowering it to 23.something. So how many more people would be dropped in to the overweight and obese categories?

I've got a friend that is 5'11" and 215lbs. His body fat percentage is about 6%. According to the BMI chart he is obese. However, he very obviously isn't. He works out 4 hours a day, runs marathons, and eats a completely organic diet. Yet, according to the government he is obese and unhealthy.

BMI is just the easiest way to classify large numbers of people. Body fat % is a much better indicator. Because such a large % of the population doesn't exercise, or have the muscle mass your friend has, or someone who exercises has, BMI is easier to use, and generaly accurate with the average person.

reply to post by neformore


So what your saying is "Is it fair to tax people who make bad decisions?"
If that were the case we could tax voters every election!

That's a mad concept, if anything - pay fat people to lose weight! People are overweight for all sorts of reasons - psychological, physical, etc. Whilst some mind less than others, I'm sure most would love to be skinny if they believed they had the discipline to lose enough weight (and the frame of mind to keep the weight off).

Sieg Heil?

I thought Nazionist USA was busy persecuting Muslims.

I guess some people will try any to make money.

reply to post by arollingstone


It really isn't that hard to lose weight. I have lost 19 pounds in less than three months. I cut my caloric intake to 2200 or less every day and started walking at least one mile three times a week. I still get to eat stuff like microwave burritos, popcorn, pasta, and anything else I want. I just pay attention to how much I eat and how many calories I'm taking in. I also let myself have one night every week where I can eat whatever dinner I want. If I want to go order three chili rellenos, beans, tortillas and queso dip for my chips I do.

There are people with glandular problems and diabetes that have a much harder time losing weight. For them I do have some amount of empathy. I don't think it is right to tax those type of people. I do get tired of lazy people complaining that they can't lose weight while sitting at Dunkin' Donuts scarfing down a chocolate cherry danish and large coffee with six creamers.

The thing is Americans have been trained to not take responsibility for their actions. It is all of us to some extent. So, people ask the government to come in and take responsibility for them. Unfortunately they don't understand one simple thing, a government big enough to give you every thing you want is big enough to take it all away.

I think anyone over 40% body fat ( unless a diagnosed medical condition causes it , which is approx 1 in 10,000 individuals ) should be charged more for medical insurance. With clinical obesity being 33% body fat , trust me you have to overeat and be very lazy to get to 40% and above.

Subsidized treatment should be offered to those wishing to look after themselves better. With those refusing treatment melted down and made into soap.

In an ideal world, there were be no taxes (except perhaps the bare minimum required to keep local and state services running.) And there would be no welfare. Or disability. Because there would be no poor or disabled people, and the government would be more efficient and self-sufficient. But it's not an ideal world.

Given the choice between:

1) Everyone keeping more of their tax dollars and people who just can't make it falling through the cracks because of survival of the fittest,

and

2) Some of the tax dollars that the government is going to take from us anyway (much of which goes toward enormous defense budgets, the salaries of the politicians everyone is always saying are so corrupt, and other programs people rail against) going to help our fellow human beings,

I choose the latter.

And with that being said, while there are indeed a lot of lazy, unmotivated people with horrible eating habits, there are also people who those programs keep afloat who have hormonal disorders, psychological issues, or disabilities that treatment, willpower, and effort just don't manage to resolve.

Basically my view is, there are going to be overweight people, and there are going to be poor people. And there are going to be some poor overweight people who despite their best efforts do not succeed in conforming to the ideals people expect of them, whether people want to acknowledge that or not. We can either kick them to the curb, or we can suffer in order to help our fellow man. I vote for the latter. It's far from an ideal situation, but I choose to be compassionate rather than self-interested (not a judgment of others, and not trying to argue with anyone; just expressing what my own choice is.)

All respect to those who disagree. Peace.

reply to post by Komaratzi11


My doctor who is really against obesity told me that if there was a nuclear war, a mini ice age or some other disaster I would survive as two of my three sons that also have obesity problems would.

Basically I am of Scotch, Irish, Welsh, English, Greek and French descent.

The articles and books I have read on obesity strongly link genes and DNA to obesity.

The humans that lived, particularly in Scotland, Ireland and Wales had to farm for thousands of years and the take was very meager at best. What little they were able to grow the kings would demand about 60% in taxes. So for every 100 pototoes you grew, you got to keep 40 and had to give the king 60.

If you had 100 eggs - Henry VIII got 60 and you got 40.

I found this video real interesting on Henry VIII's diet...........god, now this guy was fat due to his sitting around and eating probably all the food my folks had to grow and give him.



I trace that my family left the British Isles around early 1700's.

One of my favorite quotes is: “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”. Denis Diderot

Now keep in mind, just with Henry VIII's court there were approximately 1,300 people that lived at the palace so that's a lot of people to feed.

My guess and from what my family tree notes, I come from a line of peasant farmers and probably foot soldiers.

For you history buffs, I myself am fasinated in medieval history this is a interesting video site: www.youtube.com...

Another thought that enters my mind is that the obesity rate has risen in wake of GMO foods.............as this is a conspiracy site, well is there a link?

We are no longer eating natural food. We by and large are eating foods that are genetically "enhanced".

We never gave our cows "growth hormones" heaven only knows what Monsanto is putting in the food we are eating.

It's almost like we as a species are being fattened up on purpose??? But why and for whom???

Maybe the aliens are coming to harvest us after all.

I was raised on a farm and our cows, chickens, eggs, tomatoes, corn, beans, zucchini, potatoes, etc all tasted completely different than what I get at the local grocers today..............haven't had a really good tomato since the farm days, honestly.

Personally I think the obesity issue is a very complicated one.

When I was young and worked on the farm I would get up at 5 AM, let the "girls out" (our cows), clean out the barn (cows poop A LOT!) Feed and water the cows while Grandpa and Uncle S would do the bull and sheep.

Then I would feed the chickens and gather eggs.

At breakfast I could easily consume 2-3 eggs, 4 pieces of bacon or sausage, a slice of toast and maybe hash browns.

Breakfast was always my favorite meal of the day.

Now I have 1/2 cup of egg beaters Southwestern Style is 60 calories and 1 turkey sausage link (Banquet) which is 37 calories and 1 Tablespoon of Tostitos Salsas: Salsa Con Queso, Medium, which according to my Calorie King Chart is 20 calories along with black coffee. See chart below.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/610209254628.jpg[/atsimg]

Calorie King costs about $50.00 but the program is really really worth it in the help to fight obesity and when I do my treadmill today for 1 mile it will subtract the calories I burned so I can have my glass of wine tonight

For $50.00 up to 5 people can have their own separate program within this one purchase.

No, I don't work for or am associated with Calorie King but for those of us out there fighting obesity this is a valuable and very good tool.................it also shows you how much protein, calcium and other stuff you need is adding up thoughout the day.

Just google Calorie King Weight Management Program............can't recommend it enough.

Sutter Home Merlot Wine is 188 calories for 8 ounces by the way.

CalorieKing lets you measure by either serving or ounces

Hope everyone finds this information helpful.............Again that was the best $50.00 I ever spent.

When I do my treadmill at a incline of 10 today for 30 minutes at 2.0 mph (I have short legs) that will burn 300 calories according to my treadmill machine calculator and I have added that in to "custom exercise" on my CalorieKing so it will naturally subtract the exercise calories from the food calories.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5018c459f4e5.jpg[/atsimg]

In short I will have 1,183 calories after breakfast after I do the treadmill for 30 minutes at 2.0 mph with a incline of 10. I have a Nordic Trac that electronically calculates speed, incline, calories burned, etc.

Exercising, even walking fast for just 30 minutes every day allows you to be able to eat (or drink) a little extra)

Yes for those of us that fight obesity it is a precise science, like keeping a check book.

For those of you with "good genes" that naturally can gorge yourself, you are lucky - except if we ever have a catastrophe, I will survive unfortunately while those of you that can eat anything and not gain will starve first.

As a last note: For people fighting obesity this program is invaluable, you may think (guess) how much you are eating but with CalorieKing you know exactly down to the calorie what you are consuming.

Anyone that is fighting obesity should be treated nice because it's a hell of a struggle.

Scientists Discover Gene That Controls Obesity

Video cannot be downloaded but is here: abcnews.go.com...

Article here:

British researchers have found a gene they say is
linked to Type 2 diabetes and cholesterol levels and
serves as the master switch that controls the behavior
of other genes found within body fat. The discovery
could lead to obesity-related treatments in the future.

In a study published in the journal Nature Genetics,
the scientists highlight the key role fat plays in
metabolic illnesses such as obesity, heart disease,
high cholesterol and diabetes. If they can gain a
better understanding of how it all works, they may be
able to develop better drugs to treat these conditions.

In the United States, obesity-related diseases account
for nearly 10 percent of medical spending; an e
stimated $147 billion a year. As rates of obesity rise,
Type 2 diabetes has also approached epidemic levels
worldwide.

Lead researcher Tim Spector, Ph.D. of King's College
in London notes that there are a myriad of genetic
factors associated with metabolic illnesses but the
gene known as KLF14 is special because it acts as a
regulator for many other genes. "Obesity is caused by
a large number of genes acting together to increase
susceptibility. Although all of them are of small effect
on their own, by acting in concert in different ways
they can have a significant effect," he comments.

It was already known that KLF14 is connected to Type
2 diabetes and cholesterol levels but until now, the
extent of its role was a mystery. Spector's team
clarified its mechanism by examining over 20,000
genes biopsied from the subcutaneous fat of 800 UK
female twins and finding an association between
KLF14 and the activity of other distant genes found in
fat tissue. This proved KLF14's ability to control the
other gene's influence on a range of metabolic traits,
including body-mass index (obesity), cholesterol,
insulin and glucose levels and highlighted the strong
interconnections between these traits.

A copy of KLF14 is inherited from both parents as is
the case with all genes but only the mother's is active
-- a process called imprinting. That doesn't mean
your mother can be blamed exclusively for your
flabby arms and jiggly thighs since so many other
causes influence health and weight. Some genes are
even passed down from grandparents. And lifestyle

habits such as how much you eat and how little you
move place much of the responsibility for weight and
size on the individual.

This is the first major study to show how small
changes in one master regulator gene can cause a
cascade of other metabolic effects in other genes.
Spector says his team is working hard to understand
fully how this information can be used to improve
treatment of obesity-related health issues. It's
possible scientists may be able to switch the gene on
and off but the answer to whether that is possible is
at least a decade off.

Soure: habits such as how much you eat and how little you
move place much of the responsibility for weight and
size on the individual.

This is the first major study to show how small
changes in one master regulator gene can cause a
cascade of other metabolic effects in other genes.
Spector says his team is working hard to understand
fully how this information can be used to improve
treatment of obesity-related health issues. It's
possible scientists may be able to switch the gene on
and off but the answer to whether that is possible is
at least a decade off.

habits such as how much you eat and how little you
move place much of the responsibility for weight and
size on the individual.

This is the first major study to show how small
changes in one master regulator gene can cause a
cascade of other metabolic effects in other genes.
Spector says his team is working hard to understand
fully how this information can be used to improve
treatment of obesity-related health issues. It's
possible scientists may be able to switch the gene on
and off but the answer to whether that is possible is
at least a decade off.

Source: abcnews.go.com...

reply to post by MikeNice81

It really isn't that hard to lose weight.

It really is for a lot of people, especially since the more overweight you are - the more overwhelming the task seems. I used to be pretty fat, but I fortunately had the willpower to lose 40 kg (88 lbs) in about 6 months and am now skinny/average build. I cut off bread, soft drinks, everything and was taking in about 1000 calories a day, no exercise. Extremely unhealthy diet, but if I'm gonna do something I really go for it and I'm quite short on patience.. I'm able to keep it off because I'm absolutely paranoid about putting on weight since haha. It's one of the hardest things to do in the world in my opinion, I'd find it much easier to quit smoking. This is because you want immediate results, when losing weight takes so so so so long! If you haven't got a very stimulating life, its a big sacrifice - then again, it leads to an infinitely more stimulating life.

There are people with glandular problems and diabetes that have a much harder time losing weight. For them I do have some amount of empathy. I don't think it is right to tax those type of people.

Indeed that is one example, another example is those with psychological issues. E.g. unknowingly eating to fill a void or because that's the only happiness/stimulation one may have in their life.

I do get tired of lazy people complaining that they can't lose weight while sitting at Dunkin' Donuts scarfing down a chocolate cherry danish and large coffee with six creamers.

Yeah, I also dislike it when people complain that they want to lose weight, but don't actually make an effort to. In my case, I didn't even consider how fat I was - I blocked it out. As soon as I realised that I wanted to lose weight, I stuck to it and didn't look back. Though, I can see how someone less determined would lose sight after a few months.

The thing is Americans have been trained to not take responsibility for their actions. It is all of us to some extent. So, people ask the government to come in and take responsibility for them. Unfortunately they don't understand one simple thing, a government big enough to give you every thing you want is big enough to take it all away.

Ain't just Americans! More importantly, if you do something because you're told to do it you're going to do it less efficiently than if you truly want to do it. It's mad, governments that do whatever they want then try to convince you that it's being done because that's what everyone wants. They merely convince people into thinking they're being given what they want, without giving 'em jack!

Being fat has nothing to do with tax, its a ridiculous suggestion as I'm sure you will agree.