A man will be punished by dripping acid into his eyes in Tehran on Saturday May 14- Norway condemns

reply to post by meathed




His actions were not an impulsive reaction to rejection but a coldly calculated premediated

action.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by meathed

 

His actions were not an impulsive reaction to rejection but a coldly calculated premediated

action.

I fully agree, but so is your definition punishment, it is coldly calculated and premeditated too.
So his wrong doesn't make your right.
Like i said, what are we teaching the children if we can condone this type of punishment?
What ever it is it's not good.

reply to post by RMFX1


With your answer I find it amusing your avatar is of Jesus.....................what would your Jesus say?

Do you not remember him quoted as saying, "turn the other cheek" and with his supposed powers did not strike down the Roman Soldiers while they were crucifying him.

I find not only Muslims but Christians as being the most heartless and unmerciful of humanity.

While being spiritual, I am not associated with any religion and I can see how very wrong pouring acid into another human (or animal / beings) eyes is on so many levels.

As for the rest of you that say, you do the crime you should also suffer........................while I do not excuse this horrible act that this person originally did - doing the same to him just shows how low humanity has sunk.

Bad and wrong on so many levels.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Revenge simply brings one down to the very level of darkness a enlightened being does not want to sink into.

Depressing how many of you have not progressed soul wise......................just a bunch of hungry, angry insects.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


First I am in agreement with you that what this being (I will not call him human) did was wrong on so many levels.

Second, yes I have worked with the insane - I have taken care of people coming off of horse tranquilizer, dying of dementia and untreated syphillis amoung various other mental complications.

I do not excuse at all in any way shape or form what this demented being did to a poor innocent woman.

But, doing the same to him....................the person that actually pours this acid into this person's eyes, the people who hold him down, the people who cheer this on................all of them have thus sunk to the exact same level by their actions to exactly the same level as this man.

You do not see this.

No, I am not saying to give this criminal, this insane and horrible being (I will not call him human because possibly while he may have human form he is not totally human) to give him a ticket to a nice cushy cell, three meals a day, cable TV, etc.

I personally do not know what the answer is but pouring acid into another's eyes will not bring the woman's sight or beauty back and anyone that agrees to this has indeed sunk to the exact same level as the original being that did this............exact same level.

The majority of you just do not see this.

Hate and violence is not the answer.

Many of you that agree to this punishment will no doubt go to a Christian Church today and sing your hymns to your Jesus, all the while not realizing he said that revenge is not the answer.

I'm not even Christian (or Muslim) and I can see the hypocrisy.

No, sorry, in my own opinion, pouring acid, or any other violent, torturous act upon another being is wrong for any reason.

Murder is also thus wrong.

Humanity must shed this way of thinking if we are to progress or we will end up destroying each other.

Hate does not heal it is simply revenge.

reply to post by meathed




The object of punishment is to reform the offender to deter HIM AND OTHERS from

reply to post by eletheia


cont.....

from committing like offences and to protect society


The best way to avoid punishment is to fear it.......Anon

The generality of men are naturally apt to be swayed by fear rather than reverence, and

to refrain from evil rather because of the punishment that it brings..........Aristotle

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by eletheia

 

cont.....

from committing like offences and to protect society


The best way to avoid punishment is to fear it.......Anon

The generality of men are naturally apt to be swayed by fear rather than reverence, and

to refrain from evil rather because of the punishment that it brings..........Aristotle

you offer those quotes as if they mean or prove something.

i am not swayed by fear, that is aristotle's opinion, and it is true of SOME people. i follow rules that i respect and agree with and i break the ones that are stupid. if i get caught, i take my medicine like a big boy. but i DO NOT let somebody's laws or the threat of punishment dictate how i live my life.

i've never killed anybody because I personally think that it is wrong, not because of laws or commandments. likewise, the murderer WILL kill somebody, even with full knowledge of the laws and punishments, because they can justify it to themselves.

the best way to avoid punishment is to avoid the activities which invite punishment, not simple fear of the punishment. the fear of punishment is obviously not enough to stop the criminals among us from committing their crimes.

do we really think that if this man knew ahead of time that this would be his punishment, he wouldn't have done it? don't you think he could have told himself "they'll never catch me!" and just done it anyway? like every other murderer or rapist? they all know the punishment, and yet still commit the crime.

you offer those quotes as if they mean or prove something.

i am not swayed by fear, that is aristotle's opinion, and it is true of SOME people. i follow rules that i respect and agree with and i break the ones that are stupid. if i get caught, i take my medicine like a big boy. but i DO NOT let somebody's laws or the threat of punishment dictate how i live my life.

i've never killed anybody because I personally think that it is wrong, not because of laws or commandments. likewise, the murderer WILL kill somebody, even with full knowledge of the laws and punishments, because they can justify it to themselves.

the best way to avoid punishment is to avoid the activities which invite punishment, not simple fear of the punishment. the fear of punishment is obviously not enough to stop the criminals among us from committing their crimes.

do we really think that if this man knew ahead of time that this would be his punishment, he wouldn't have done it? don't you think he could have told himself "they'll never catch me!" and just done it anyway? like every other murderer or rapist? they all know the punishment, and yet still commit the crime.

no system deters crimes completely, there is no chance of utopia on earth, the only choice is between systems which make something more or less likely to happen.

In my view a robust criminal justice system deters more crimes than one which tends to treat the criminals as victims

reply to post by RicoMarston



I made those quotes because they mirrored my opinion. However they are only an opinion

no better or no worse than your opinion. They are after all just that opinions.


You may be supprised to know i agree with your post and i too live by my own rules one

of which is not to hurt another person by thought, word, or deed. As you say the best way

to avoid punishment is to avoid the activities which invite punishment ( i have already said

throughout this thread IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME DON'T DO THE CRIME ) However i do

believe fear of repercussions does have a deterrant effevt in a lot of cases.

Originally posted by descartes90

Originally posted by MrB0B
reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross

 

I completely agree.

Humanity needs to reassert its empathy and focus on patience, love and forgiveness rather than retribution, revenge and retaliation.

If you look at the countries who practice revenge and retribution as punishment, and compare them to the ones who have abandoned such practices, the ones that still do eye for an eye have way more human rights abuses in general than the ones wise enough to see the futility in such practices.

yeah.. like countries that will execute a murderer.

reply to post by eletheia


such manners! you're much more polite than the average ATSer (or me)!

as a relatively new father, I've been learning lessons about disciplining another human lately which apply to this discussion. I used to spank my daughter's butt, or slap her wrist when she did something naughty repeatedly. eventually, i noticed that her mood after a smack or spank was crabbier and angrier than before the spank. furthermore, it never prevented her from doing it again, until i raised my hand and asked "do you want a spank?" this would cause her to cry and run away from me to hide. that's when i stopped spanking. the time-out and talk works EXPONENTIALLY better, and she can't even speak English yet. I find that when I use complete sentences, sit her down and talk about what she did, the problem goes away.

so, in short, yes violent, fear-based punishment works in the moment. but it is an easy solution and leads to more negative emotions down the road. i remember vividly the times my old man pounded on me, but i couldn't tell you in one single instance what he was hitting me for. violent, fear-based punishment does more for the punisher than the punished. as long as we have incarceration without rehabilitation, we will have crime.

Originally posted by blueorder

you offer those quotes as if they mean or prove something.

i am not swayed by fear, that is aristotle's opinion, and it is true of SOME people. i follow rules that i respect and agree with and i break the ones that are stupid. if i get caught, i take my medicine like a big boy. but i DO NOT let somebody's laws or the threat of punishment dictate how i live my life.

i've never killed anybody because I personally think that it is wrong, not because of laws or commandments. likewise, the murderer WILL kill somebody, even with full knowledge of the laws and punishments, because they can justify it to themselves.

the best way to avoid punishment is to avoid the activities which invite punishment, not simple fear of the punishment. the fear of punishment is obviously not enough to stop the criminals among us from committing their crimes.

do we really think that if this man knew ahead of time that this would be his punishment, he wouldn't have done it? don't you think he could have told himself "they'll never catch me!" and just done it anyway? like every other murderer or rapist? they all know the punishment, and yet still commit the crime.

no system deters crimes completely, there is no chance of utopia on earth, the only choice is between systems which make something more or less likely to happen.

In my view a robust criminal justice system deters more crimes than one which tends to treat the criminals as victims

edit on 15-5-2011 by blueorder because: (no reason given)

correction; no system yet devised by man HAS deterred crime completely. you cannot speak to the future, as it has not happened yet.

do you care to offer any evidence in support of the claim that utopia is impossible? when in human history has it even been attempted? never.

which justice system treats criminals as victims? who proposed implementing one as opposed to the Iranian system? how is rehabing a criminal treating them as a victim?

reply to post by ofhumandescent

But, doing the same to him....................the person that actually pours this acid into this person's eyes, the people who hold him down, the people who cheer this on................all of them have thus sunk to the exact same level by their actions to exactly the same level as this man. You do not see this.

Read my first post on this thread I said pouring acid in his eyes and face, is stupid. And that death would be preferable to that. Because he would be as good as dead only it would take longer for him to die. Thats why I said a sort of compromise for the victim and punishment for him would be better then blinding him by acid.

Second, yes I have worked with the insane - I have taken care of people coming off of horse tranquilizer, dying of dementia and untreated syphillis amoung various other mental complications.

Maybe so but there is crazy then there is all kinds of crazy, one does not always equal the other. And sounds more like the people coming off of horse tranquilizer and were suffering dementia and syphilis were more sick and out of there mind, or at least it does not equal to the kind of crazy the man did by throwing acid on a females face because she said no. So it's apples and oranges. Moving on.


So if you think blinding him with acid is wrong, and death as punishment for him is wrong also, and that he does not deserve to be in 3 meal a day and a roof over your head prison. Well then it seems that the only option is that if they came to some sort of compromise punishment for him with the victim, though the victim seems intent on a eye for an eye, and her pouring the acid.

So in the end there are no good answers to this whole thing.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by RMFX1

 

With your answer I find it amusing your avatar is of Jesus.....................what would your Jesus say?

Do you not remember him quoted as saying, "turn the other cheek" and with his supposed powers did not strike down the Roman Soldiers while they were crucifying him.

I find not only Muslims but Christians as being the most heartless and unmerciful of humanity.

While being spiritual, I am not associated with any religion and I can see how very wrong pouring acid into another human (or animal / beings) eyes is on so many levels.

As for the rest of you that say, you do the crime you should also suffer........................while I do not excuse this horrible act that this person originally did - doing the same to him just shows how low humanity has sunk.

Bad and wrong on so many levels.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Revenge simply brings one down to the very level of darkness a enlightened being does not want to sink into.

Depressing how many of you have not progressed soul wise......................just a bunch of hungry, angry insects.

you are too wrapped up in your own superiority and self righteousness, "spiritual" but not "religious" like those billions of other buffoons.


To sum your analogy up, if the state executes a child murderer, what you are saying is that the act of murdering the child is the SAME as the lawful execution (after due legal process) of said child murderer.


Well I can assure you it isn't, and nor would it be to anyone with a working moral compass

Originally posted by RicoMarston

correction; no system yet devised by man HAS deterred crime completely. you cannot speak to the future, as it has not happened yet.

this is bizarre reasoning, clearly I cannot speak into the future, but the human condition is the same as it was100 years ago, 1,000 years ago etc-- jealousy, pride, evil are the same whatever age we look at, so unless we become something other than human and controlled by robots or some sort of weird part robotic dystopian future, then spare me this meaningless aside

do you care to offer any evidence in support of the claim that utopia is impossible? when in human history has it even been attempted? never.

I offer the entire sum of human existence- as for efforts at "utopia", look no further than the Soviet Union, this was an agenda in "utopia"- look what lovely fruits the utopians brought us, tens of millions murdered and starved to death

which justice system treats criminals as victims? who proposed implementing one as opposed to the Iranian system? how is rehabing a criminal treating them as a victim?

My own UK criminal justice system, infested with liberal or "liberal /left" thinking which somehow treats crime as the fault of society- murderers here can get out in 12-15 years, how do you like the sound of that mr future utopian nonsense speaker

reply to post by blueorder


Murder is murder whether it is mandated by the state, a country (as in war) or a personal act against a child.\

No one has the right to take the life of another.

No one.

Murder is wrong.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by blueorder

 

Murder is murder whether it is mandated by the state, a country (as in war) or a personal act against a child.\

No one has the right to take the life of another.

No one.

Murder is wrong.

yes, execution of a child murderer, after due legal process is not murder.

To clarify, you are saying that the murder of a child is the same as the state executing the child murderer after due legal process


Just so everybody is clear on your thinking

How a society or idividual treats the vulnerable, ie the poor, mothers, elderly, handicapped is directly proportional to their souls,and whether they have grace, wisdom, and unconditional love, and overcome their reactions to UNDERSTAND others, and serve them as they are, gracing them.

How a society or individual treats the ones who have broken the rules, or are damaged and dangerous ALSO is a direct window into whether they have grace, wisdom, and unconditional love.

Healing is more important than any kind of punishment. Safety of the public is an issue, but then the rest is healing, and trying to reach the other.

What happened to this woman was horrific and really really hard to even hear about, but this is not the right way of approaching this. As he has no means of proving he would be healed, he should be working for the betterment of himself, and the society around him, not exactly free any longer. Its a very bad case. But no civilized Loving society should become the same as him.

And for the religious groups, the controllers have done a big job on all of them, they're like Soloman's mason temple floor, the black and white squares. There are two lanes to the highways in all the religions, only one leads to freedom and advancement. They write about a Warring, Smiting God, alot and many dark squares. Their goal is to hault progression and turn a school to learn Unconditional Love and Equality by a system of opposites, into a prison where people are under the dominion of their LOGOS, they even code their companies and the products we buy to their LOGOS and think that people who are tricked are culpable, but in much of their pseudo legalistic BS, they're completely wrong and missed some things apparently:

Free Will, The intent of person's heart, and yes, that means their paradigm they're living under, their perception, is far more imporant in the end when the assessment occurs, than their pseudo laws and traps.

They never had the real understanding of Universal Laws to begin with, not seeing, because they're blind, not hearing, because they're deaf, and the darkness can't see the Light or understand.

And Yeshua wrote in the sand with His finger. All Laws serve Life, and Souls, no Souls serve Law.

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, but this has been postponed.

justice is served!
don't you guys think if we used the "eye or an eye" punishment in our law system less people would be willing to commit crimes? i think so.

is it sick i'm getting a kick out of this?