A personal Gun story you won't see on the news!!

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by splitlevel

 

but in this case it sounds like wasting one of them scared the lot of tem off,

That is the usual result. In most group attacks there is usually an Alpha. If he is taken out the rest scatter. It happens the same way in fist fights. In this particular case it seems like they thought over whelming force would work in their advantage. When they found someone resisting they fled. That is usually the way it works with bullys.

Im saying guns are not effective against other guns usually

I'm not trying to be a Richard Noggin but, do some research. It works very often. There are stories all over the place of it working. There are stories that fit your line of thinking. However, there are more that show using a gun against an armed attacker usually works in th victims favor.

So really you have to hope that if your in a bad situation that the assailant is really dumb aswell. probably most of them are, but not all.

So if we follow your line of thinking it should still work in the victims favor more often than not.

the genei is out of the bottle with firarms...and its the easy access to firearms that make a scumbags 1000 times more dangerous.

Here is the thing, America is in the midst of a twenty year low in violent crime and murders. I am not simple enough to believe it is all because of guns. However, it does prove that relaxed gun laws and a "proliferation" of guns has not lead to an increase in gun related crime or violence. In fact preliminary numbers for 2010 show that the only places experiencing a rise in crime were places that passed stricter gun laws.

I know mexico has gun laws but all the weapons there are from the US, as its so easy to get hold of them illegally.

So some more research. Only about 17% of cartel guns come from America. Many of their guns are coming from Chinese black market sources. A lot of them have even come from North Korean sources. Also, the 17% includes American military arms that soldiers stole when they deserted to join cartells. It also includes black market shipments from other South American countries that had left over military supplies from American intervention in the 80's and 90's. Don't even get me started on the fact that the ATF told gun stores to sell guns illegally to suspected gun smugglers. Then they let them cross the border. It led to the death of a border agent. Look up project gunwalker.

you would then be left with only armed police...as it should be. still not a perfect world but a lot safer than with guns in circulation.

You do know that when cops use a gun they kill an innocent person 5 times more often than civilians using guns for self defense, right? Do some research.

I'm not angry at you for your point of view. It just shows a lack of research. I use to be ambivalent about guns. Then I took the time to do some in depth research. I spent hours upon hours studying the topic. I come to realize that a lot of what I thought I knew was rubish. A lot of what we think we know comes from disinformation spread by both sides of the argument. It wasn't untill I started looking at the actual figures from the FBI, CDC, and other sources that I realized the truth.

You obviously have an emotional view of the subject. Nothing may ever change your mind. However, try to deny ignorance and do some in depth research of the subject. Things aren't what they seem.

damn you forced me to reply...haha...i have no "emotional view" just commonsense. if your making out that America is a better place with guns, then fine...you know your facts n figures, of course i could..if could be bothered root out a bunch of contradictory facts n figures, isnt that how the gun debate works and goes round in a never ending circle. like the mexican owned cartel guns mostly being from legal sources originating in the US. However I am not really bothered. My mind is flexible if i needed a gun id have one...i dont need one. if someone breaks into my home where i am there is virtually no chance they will have a gun as there are virtually no guns in circulation here. I have a good chance against a knife with my hands though.
If i was walking down a street and a gang decided to kick my ass then there wouldnt be much i could do, does that mean i walk in a gang to counter the threat or carry a weapon to counter the threat? Whatever makes you happy, you obviously see guns as an answer to the problem...if I lived in juarez id too might carry a gun but it wouldnt be much use against a gang, all coked off their heads, doing a drive by on my a55, with multiple automatic weapons.
oh and i know about trigger happy cops shooting innocent people too....but i figured if i said the cops should be unnarmed i get even more hate back hahahaha.
the joke about this being an emotional issue...thats funny as im not emotionally attached to this issue...the people who own the guns are emmotional attached to them, im not attached to anything...have your gun...its no skin off my nose but it dont add to a "safer society". if i was attacked and knew the perp had a knife etc, id disarm them or kill them if i they were intent on killing me, so I aint against using lethal force.
Bottom line if your really content and happy carrying a weapon then good for you. Eatch to their own. it just doesnt make the world a safer place thats all im saying.
Lifes too short for me to be dumb enough to argue the point with someone who has their mind set in stone, as you make out mine is,,the joke is id own a gun if it gave me a real advantage but where all the worst guys own one too then there is no real advantage, just a percieved one..in the overall scheme of things.
if your happy with a gun...in a country with guns...then great for you man...id rather move to where i dont have to worry about it. you can answer me back but cmon is there rally any point...brother...No..its just my opinion and in the real world it aint worth the webpage its written on, so dont swet it, i could be the biggest fool you know, so take no notice of me anyhow as I know you wont anyhow, so no point in arguing lets not add to the hate.
Peace out.

reply to post by splitlevel

you obviously see guns as an answer to the problem...

I don't see guns as an answer to "the problem." I see them as an answer to certain problems. They answer a problem that a low percentage of people will ever face. However, I believe in being prepared for that low probability occurence.

My father saved me and my mother from a knife wielding man when I was a child. I have used a rifle to stop two people intent on invading the home of an 80 year old invalid neighbor. I have used a rifle to deter a drunk with a baseball bat that wanted to invade my home and injure my family. I have also used my pistol to defend myself against a man with a knife that wanted to rob me in a parking lot in broad daylight.

I have also had someone stick a gun to my head. I didn't have a gun and in that case it wouldn't have helped. I was lucky that his gun malfunctioned. When it did I took that opportunity to show him why he made a mistake. Even if I had a gun I wouldn't have used it then. His gun obviously was defective. To shoot him might have been legally viable. However, I could not morally justify doing such a thing.

I have had more encounters than the average person. I know the tool is usefull in certain situations. Certain problems require a certain tool. If I could wish away all eveil and criminality I would. However, untill people evolve past being barbaric animals I will stand ready to use the proper tool for any situation. Whether that tool is avoidance, verbal judo, physical force, or lethal force, I will use it to ensure the safety my family and myself.

I understand your difference of opinion based on your country of origin. (I am assuming the UK.) Gun crime there is highly concentrated in an unusual way. In America it is concentrated, but not like England.

There is also a difference in the mindset of the people. In Europe as a whole there is more dependance on the government to take care of the citizen's needs. In America a lot of us do not look o the government for our needs. We take a certain self dependent approach that is peculiar to our counter parts across the pond.

I have a good chance against a knife with my hands though.

Unless you are trained to deal with such you should rethink that. I am not saying that to be dismissive. I am saying it as someone that has seen what can happen with knives. I am saying it more out of concern than anything. A man with a knife is considerred "lethal" once he gets closer than 21 feet. They can stab you faster than the average person can react.

I was able to come out ahead when a man with a knife tried to rob me. I had certain enviromental elements that I could use to buy time and distance. Even when I was able to create distance he still wanted to persue. Then he found himself looking down the barell of a gun and decided to give up.

I believe I could have handled the situation without a gun. I don't believe it would have been without serious injury. I have seen the crime scene photos of knife attacks and knife fights. Usually even the "winner" is hard to distinguish from the "loser."

Be safe and be secure no matter how you choose to defend yourself.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by splitlevel

 

you obviously see guns as an answer to the problem...

I don't see guns as an answer to "the problem." I see them as an answer to certain problems. They answer a problem that a low percentage of people will ever face. However, I believe in being prepared for that low probability occurence.

My father saved me and my mother from a knife wielding man when I was a child. I have used a rifle to stop two people intent on invading the home of an 80 year old invalid neighbor. I have used a rifle to deter a drunk with a baseball bat that wanted to invade my home and injure my family. I have also used my pistol to defend myself against a man with a knife that wanted to rob me in a parking lot in broad daylight.

I have also had someone stick a gun to my head. I didn't have a gun and in that case it wouldn't have helped. I was lucky that his gun malfunctioned. When it did I took that opportunity to show him why he made a mistake. Even if I had a gun I wouldn't have used it then. His gun obviously was defective. To shoot him might have been legally viable. However, I could not morally justify doing such a thing.

I have had more encounters than the average person. I know the tool is usefull in certain situations. Certain problems require a certain tool. If I could wish away all eveil and criminality I would. However, untill people evolve past being barbaric animals I will stand ready to use the proper tool for any situation. Whether that tool is avoidance, verbal judo, physical force, or lethal force, I will use it to ensure the safety my family and myself.

I understand your difference of opinion based on your country of origin. (I am assuming the UK.) Gun crime there is highly concentrated in an unusual way. In America it is concentrated, but not like England.

There is also a difference in the mindset of the people. In Europe as a whole there is more dependance on the government to take care of the citizen's needs. In America a lot of us do not look o the government for our needs. We take a certain self dependent approach that is peculiar to our counter parts across the pond.

I have a good chance against a knife with my hands though.

Unless you are trained to deal with such you should rethink that. I am not saying that to be dismissive. I am saying it as someone that has seen what can happen with knives. I am saying it more out of concern than anything. A man with a knife is considerred "lethal" once he gets closer than 21 feet. They can stab you faster than the average person can react.

I was able to come out ahead when a man with a knife tried to rob me. I had certain enviromental elements that I could use to buy time and distance. Even when I was able to create distance he still wanted to persue. Then he found himself looking down the barell of a gun and decided to give up.

I believe I could have handled the situation without a gun. I don't believe it would have been without serious injury. I have seen the crime scene photos of knife attacks and knife fights. Usually even the "winner" is hard to distinguish from the "loser."

Be safe and be secure no matter how you choose to defend yourself.

thanks for your concern....ive had several knives pulled on me over the years and im still alive and without any significant wounds..nuff said. And i am no Chcuk Norris. generally if someone is on the attack, they are not thinking straight and are full of adrenalyn themselves, as long as you can maintain your head when they lose theirs you can come out on top either by fleeing or by neutralising the attacker with your hands or feet. i wouldnt try to fight a gang...and wouldnt delibratley fight a knife if i could run, but somethimes your back is against a wall type of thing. You can learn matial arts or street fighting but the main thing is learn to stay calm...and a lot of people wind up dead trying to be a tuff guy...mostly is better to run.

By the way you sound like a good and reasonable bloke. Like I said often its fate the way things go down...like the gun jamming when poined at your scull.

just wanted to add that i currently do not live in the UK anyhow...but generally the police are the security service for the rich in the UK...regular people dont much depend on police or government for protection and the sentencing laws here are so linient that it only encourages "bad behaviour". So more often than not when someone decides to act like a pr1ck, which is pretty often, your on your own and have no choice but to deal with it yourself...there is so much anti social behaviour in the UK that really..unless you are very well off, your going to have to either deal with it, try to bury your head in the sand or leave for some country better...I left as you cant fight everyone who wants to act up, just tooo many of them types in the UK..


also from when I lived in the states..florida mainly...i had some run ins with every type from rednecks and frat boys to home boys and a cop or two who seem to think its a huge crime even being on the street at night and like threatening people with the fact they have guns on them...makes me sound like a right idiot always attracting trouble but no I keep my head down...just happen to be on the wrong street at wrong time of night usually...anyhow all of the run ins I had in the US I talked my way out of and none of them escalated into anything other than a bit of verbal threatening...which i can walk off from. In the UK when an idiot wants to attack you...there is no talking your way out of it. this was the big difference i noticed between the US and the UK. So unfortunatley you often have to learn how to defend yourself on the street.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Great story! It would have ended better with 3 dead weird people on the side of the road...but I'm not complaining This is the reason (among thousands of others) guns should never be banned.

reply to post by KJV1611


Getready's post is the reason guns should never be banned... These comments about 3 dead rednecks are the reason they should be banned.

If people can accept the responsibility of carrying a sidearm this means you never use it to be judge jury and executioner. You use it to give you the confidence to diffuse a negative situation and when your life is directly in danger.

While I have no doubt there was a danger it was never direct. I am one of the most pro-weapons people you will meet. I believe we should be able to own RPGs and Apache helicopters with full weapons systems... but this requires responsibility! Chief of those responsibilities is to never act in fear, and to always exhaust every non-violent and deterrent approach first.

Hi from Canada here where we have some tough gun laws but I have a story to share. About 20 years back I was renting a 4000 sq ft warehouse which I had converted the front into a sweet pad for myself and two room mates and the back I rented out as jam space to local bands. It was an amazing setup and anytime of the week there would be bands practicing and people having beers and listening. One Saturday night I went to an auction with my girlfriend and we ended up buying some antiques to resell. When we get back to the warehouse I see my friend Mark who is a 6'4" german boy 260lbs covered in blood in the parking lot and the front door is smashed off its hinges. Then my other room mate comes flying out through the broken door getting beat on by two guys. Its funny how fast and slow things happen at the same time. I throw the truck into park and yell at my girlfriend to lock the f'n door and jump out.

Now I am 6'1 and about 185lb and have had my share of tussles, I am no ultimate fighter but I wouldn't want to get hit by me. I hauled of and smoked one of these guys clean in the side of the head right near the ear and he just turned and looked at me and said "who the f are you" This scared the crap out of me. My friend that was fighting the two guys at once started yelling get your gun. get your gun. I had several licensed weapons at the time broken down and properly stored with trigger locks. I guess I was so scared and freaked out that I went and grabbed my Remmy 12 gauge and threw it together quick. NO BULLETS. I ran back outside where there were now 4 people I didn't know fighting my room mates and cocked the shotgun and screamed to calm the f down f'ers. The one guy that was the biggest of them just started walking straight towards me and friggin grabbed the end of the gun and started yelling shoot me. This is not what I expected. I dropped the gun and made a run back towards the truck. Me pulling the gun out afforded my friends an opportunity to run to the truck as well and we sped away to a bar just down the road and called 911.

We waited about 15 minutes and headed back to the seen and you will never guess what happened. When we pulled up the guys were talking to the cops and playing pool in the back. They had told the cops they lived there and the guys fighting had left! I straightened out the story with the cops and they asked me to come down to the cop shop and make a formal statement, boy was I naive. What ended up happening was they finger printed me and charged me with a whack of offences, improper storage, pointing a fire arm etc. In the end I got off completely with the case thrown out of court but the worrying and money spent to fight this sometimes made me question whether it was worth it. I didn't question it when I found out that they were all glue sniffers that tried to break in and were high that night, hence my punch doing nothing, and the big guy that grabbed the gun from me? He was out on probation for attempted murder.

Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I had loaded the gun.

reply to post by getreadyalready


This is kind of off topic, but I need to vent this as it just happened to me....
On my motorcycle,on the way to the gun range. Putting along in traffic with my weapon in a holster on my side. I see the lights in the mirror and hear the sirens. I pull over thinking the state trooper is going to a call. Turns out, I am the call. My first thought was" Was I speeding?" I'm not wearing a helmet, maybe he wants to see my insurance(florida law)" So I drop the stand and cut off the bike, get out my paperwork and sit there patiently waiting. After about 5 minutes another officer arrives and the first officer gets out, heads over to his back-up and they proceed to have a conversation. Ive got the WTF? look and thoughts going at this point. A minute or two later I see officer # 1 approach and Officer#2 moving to my right and rear. Officer #1 walks up and without warning Attempts to remove my weapon from its holster.My first reaction was probably the stupidest thing I could have done. Reflexes kicked in and i grabbed my weapon and his hand to keep my weapon secure in its holster. I said what do do think your doing. It was then I noticed both officers had drawn their weapons.Officer #1 said he was trying to secure my weapon and to remove my hand from his. I told him my weapon was secure and he needed to secure his weapon.Once again- not to bright on my part.I took my hand off and he removed my weapon and gave it to Officer #2. I asked him what this was all about and he said they had reports (911 calls no less) of a man on a motorcycle with a gun.My response-You're f#*king kidding me right? I have my CCW and my license right here if you would like to see them. He told me No, I don't need to see them. Just keep your hands on the bike"He walks off and proceeds to have a conversation with officer #2. A few minutes go by and both Officers walk up and hand me my weapon followed by an empty clip and tell me I'm free to go. I asked for my bullets back. His response was" What bullets, sir?" Once again- You're f#*king kidding me,right? So I opened my storage compartment,pulled out a box of ammo and loaded my clip. Soon as I loaded the clip into my weapon, both officers put their hand on their weapons. I popped a round into the chamber and locked on the safety and secured my weapon in its holster. Officer #2 told me to make sure my shirt stays over my weapon or they'd be seeing me again. I stated the obvious-I'M ON A BIKE, the wind tends to blow your clothes around. His response-Not My problem. Just doing my job.As I was getting ready to ride off I slapped them with my favorite saying: ...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Its the Constitution boys. Try reading it sometime.
I am getting used to being harassed by the pirates with badges over carrying a concealed weapon,but it still sucks none the less.And after all of that commotion-neither officer asked me for my license or CCW. I don't even think they ran the #'s on my weapon. How is this doing their job or even a legal stop. Just pisses me off..

Originally posted by camaro68ss
glade nothen happend. I live in california. i can carry a gun in a holster in view with the clip on the other side of the hip but it cant be loaded. I dont do it because not to many cops here know the law and im sure i will get a cop pulling his gun on me the moment he sees me packing

I walked into a taco bell once with my gun and everyone was tripping. people are scared of guns here in california

I live in Washington State, which is a "shall issue" state with fair to middlin' gun laws. California, of course, is very strict. You would think, then, that Calfornia's strict laws would result in a population being safer. But the opposite is true. When you look at violent crime statistics, Califorbnia's crime rate is just about double Washington's. We do beat up a few more people per capita wise in Washington, but otherwise we're just pussy cats.

I just got back from a 4 day defensive handgun course at Frontsight in Nevada. Wwe were told we could leave our possessions on the range when we went to lunch because there didn't seem to be a crime problem there. Everyone was excessively friendly. This is the only place where I've seen single women walk up and just start talking to a guy. Of course everyone there, several hundred people, had a .45 strapped to their belts and a couple of full magazines on the other side.

reply to post by JayFlores


I think you got very, very lucky!

In Florida, even accidentally exposing your weapon is considered brandishing. There was legislature up for vote this session that would have changed that, but I'm don't know if it passed or not. I know the legislation forbidding Doctors from asking if you have a weapon in the home did pass, so maybe the brandishing law passed too.

Anyhow, the officer was kind of right. It is our responsibility to keep the weapon concealed at all times. I ride too, and I have to be very careful.

Now, the idiots who called 911 should really get a life, and the officer that decided to sneak up and grab the weapon is not going to last long as a police officer!

I don't blame you for being surprised, but it sounds like everything turned out ok. I think if I were you, I might call up to the police department and talk to some kind of commander about the officer that grabbed your weapon, and the return of your bullets. That officer needs some re-training! Then again, they might decide to be nasty and threaten you with the brandishing charge, so maybe you should just leave it alone.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I am reading thru this thread ( but I am not all the way through it yet ) and see a lot of gedunkt experiments , but I think it all comes down to one simple moment and it falls under this question to Getreadyalready:

When you were standing those guys down and you were busy grabbing the butterflies and trying to keep them from running the show ( no shame there , I think no matter how many times one does it, it still there in some form ) , the moment came into your head where you made the decision, right then and there as you were feeling the situation out , that you were going to use that weapon (if need be)? right?

I don't mean that in the "what if" sense , on the battle field so to speak inside your mind you made the decision or had the realization that you had what it takes to stand your ground ?

( this may seem an odd an over-simplistic question but I have a suspicion you know that it is not )

reply to post by Silverlok


The answer is yes, and that decision was made before the guys even saw me. Someone said earlier how it is amazing the way things can happen so quickly and so slowly at the same time. I remember a motorcycle wreck about 2 years ago where the wreck happened in a split second, but retelling my thought process took several minutes! It is like it all slows down and happens in one instance.

So, the answer is, all of those things raced through my head in an instant, and I was resolved and committed, before I ever stepped up into their sight or spoke a word.

One thing that helped me was being attacked by a dog. Really. I was walking my dog (see him up there?) He's a friendly, even docile creature, but you know how territory is with other dogs. Another dog came out of nowhere and went for both of us. It scared the bejejus out of me! I managed to get us away, but I resolved to never let that happen again. I was in Condition White when I should have been in Condition Yellow. So I bought me some pepper gel and rehersed what I would do if it ever happened again.

The thing I had to get through was the adrenalin rush--fight or flight. My arms and legs were shaking with he chemical dump and my mind had to "think through" the fear. Inevitably, it happened again (different dog), but THIS time I had practiced what I would do so many times that I went into auto pilot. Get my dog to my rear with my left hand, pull out the mace with my right, aim carefully, and fire.

I think it is really important to experience the adrenalin rush a few times so you recognize it when it happens and it won't mess you up.

reply to post by schuyler

I think it is really important to experience the adrenalin rush a few times so you recognize it when it happens and it won't mess you up.

I think you are absolutely correct. I don't recommend being in a bunch of life-threatening situations, but if you have been, it certainly helps.

BUT, the adrenalin still messes you up, it just comes a few minutes after the situation has subsided. All the shaking hits at once, and you can get physically ill, sweat, lose your breath; it is a major crash when you do come down!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I survived 2 knife attacks where I was unarmed. I managed because I am a former Marine, ex amatuer boxer and MMA fighter. In the first attack I was wounded 1/4 inch from the artery in my leg. I was lucky to have survived. The second attack was by a gang in Tiajuana when I was with some Marine friends of mine. That incident was purely insane and I surely should not have survived, but came out without so much as a scratch.

The second attack still haunts me occasionally as I had come to a point in the melee where I resigned myself to death. I cannot describe what it was like seeing a knife blade flashing at me from what seemed like everywhere.

The feeling of resigning myself to death is something that I will always remember and be affected by positively. By that I mean not a whole lot stresses me out anymore. A/C going out, getting a speeding ticket, bills, work...whatever, not a big deal to me unless someone's trying to kill me.

The adrenaline rush...
After figuring I was soon to be dead, I let go of any defensive posture and worked to land a killing blow. I'm a southpaw who fights conventional. I worked to develop a strong and accurate jab which I have always had supreme confidence in. I remember fear dropping away and mostly being frustrated because I couldn't figure out why I couldn't land that shot to his throat or get a good eye gouge. I ended up picking him up and tried to throw him off the bridge we were on.

It was the adrenaline that threw of my timing and accuracy so much. It was like I had all this strength and speed burst, but my mind couldn't keep up with the timing and accuracy. I remember sitting on the sidewalk afterwards, body arms, head, feeling like they weighed a ton.

reply to post by AP-Chris


It definitely throws your timing off some, but I think it also adds that air of invincibility, and a little bit of super-strength. I am certain my temper saved my life in my younger days a few times. I have been cut with a knife, but luckily never stabbed, and never in a foreign country! I would be scared to death to get into trouble in Tijuana, especially now, they just behead you and leave you on the side of the road these days!

I used to see the guys at Eglin AF base doing pushups and pullups before firing their handguns at the range. They wanted to mimic the elevated heart rate and muscle fatigue when they were shooting. It is a good way to practice, but there is no substitute for the pure adrenalin rush and/or rage.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yeah, that was in '93. I don't think I'd even go there now days. Much more dangerous now plus I'm older and wiser and stear clear of trouble now.

You're right about the temper too. Training/fighting in a ring I always worked to stay calm and show no emotion. Outside on a street, way aggressive. Rage is a good deterrent.

Raising heart rate with physical exercise is decent, especially if it is combined with the stress of competition. I think being used to competition in any form can really help with people's preparedness for many situations in life. Throw out political correctness and teach people that the difference between winning and losing is important.

reply to post by AP-Chris

Throw out political correctness and teach people that the difference between winning and losing is important.

I hadn't thought of that, but you are absolutely right! It becomes very clear how important it is when your life is on the line!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I'm sure that your wife is grateful that you were not weak that day. Your loss could have had dire consequences for her. I commend you for winning your safety and hers.

I really think competition is a key and often overlooked element to survival. Being used to competing develops mental toughness and discipline which can keep a person going when others may give up.

Like that soccer team that crashed in the mountains - that movie "Alive" taken from a true story.

Originally posted by splitlevel

Originally posted by JayFlores
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Simple fact- Cars kill more people per year by 200% than guns do. And more people use their cars as weapons to injure/kill people per year than they do firearms.I dont hear anyone screaming to ban THOSE inherently evil, petrol burning,oil wasting, planet polluting weapons of death. And there is no way an inanimate object can be evil or good.A weapon is just a tool. Be it knife, gun,bat,bottle or toothpick it can do nothing on its own. It is the person who makes the choice for good or evil.
Statistics prove that states and countries with strict gun laws have a higher violent crime rate.Just saying....

yeah I dont have the stats, but I do know where I am right now cars kill more people than anything else...mainly due to teenaged lads who think they are on the rally circuit. But I get your point about cars being leathal.
I dunno if you got my point really....but the point was...if you holding a gun, the best your ever going to be is second on the draw if you attacker has a gun.
Thats right a gun is a tool...but it wont be effective if the attacker draws down on your first. Any if you apply a bit of common sense logic...its in the nature of an attacker to draw his weapon 1st, as thats how you know your being attacked.

Nobody should be so clueless as to not notice a dangerous suituation i.e. "condition white" ( what most folks wander around in: distracted. Part of carrying is not being in "condition white"but a slightly elevated level of readiness and being aware of who's behind you or coming toward you,

Originally posted by splitlevel
If your responding to an attack your likley to come off second best unless you have lightning fast reflexes and a mind to boot.
this is what people ought to focus on rather than a gun,

Jesus splitlevel (still trying to force your round logic into the square reality hole I see: criminals are not known for spending time on the practice range.Why is it a gun that is ineffective in a citizens hands becomes overwhelmingly effective in a scumbags'???????????
people miss;guns jam;guns get hung up drawing from concealment in pockets
Guns"print" their shape under clothing material.
a "perp" acts like a "perp". realistically no attack should come from completely out of the blue.

Originally posted by splitlevel

as like I said unless your the fastest gun slinger in the west, your likley gonna be toast and even those gun slingers had rules of engagement and were on full allert waiting for the other guy to draw. Id rather not be on full allret, red allret 24/7, with an itchy trigger finger...waiting for an attack as its not much of a quality of life living in permanant state of fear...unless your really fearless then you wouldnt need a gun anyhow as you wouldnt care either way.
id rather move somewhere with less people and less guns.

edit on 16-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by splitlevel

Originally posted by JayFlores
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Simple fact- Cars kill more people per year by 200% than guns do. And more people use their cars as weapons to injure/kill people per year than they do firearms.I dont hear anyone screaming to ban THOSE inherently evil, petrol burning,oil wasting, planet polluting weapons of death. And there is no way an inanimate object can be evil or good.A weapon is just a tool. Be it knife, gun,bat,bottle or toothpick it can do nothing on its own. It is the person who makes the choice for good or evil.
Statistics prove that states and countries with strict gun laws have a higher violent crime rate.Just saying....

yeah I dont have the stats, but I do know where I am right now cars kill more people than anything else...mainly due to teenaged lads who think they are on the rally circuit. But I get your point about cars being leathal.
I dunno if you got my point really....but the point was...if you holding a gun, the best your ever going to be is second on the draw if you attacker has a gun.
Thats right a gun is a tool...but it wont be effective if the attacker draws down on your first. Any if you apply a bit of common sense logic...its in the nature of an attacker to draw his weapon 1st, as thats how you know your being attacked.

Nobody should be so clueless as to not notice a dangerous suituation i.e. "condition white" ( what most folks wander around in: distracted. Part of carrying is not being in "condition white"but a slightly elevated level of readiness and being aware of who's behind you or coming toward you,

Originally posted by splitlevel
If your responding to an attack your likley to come off second best unless you have lightning fast reflexes and a mind to boot.
this is what people ought to focus on rather than a gun,

Jesus splitlevel (still trying to force your round logic into the square reality hole I see: criminals are not known for spending time on the practice range.Why is it a gun that is ineffective in a citizens hands becomes overwhelmingly effective in a scumbags'???????????
people miss;guns jam;guns get hung up drawing from concealment in pockets
Guns"print" their shape under clothing material.
a "perp" acts like a "perp". realistically no attack should come from completely out of the blue.

Originally posted by splitlevel

as like I said unless your the fastest gun slinger in the west, your likley gonna be toast and even those gun slingers had rules of engagement and were on full allert waiting for the other guy to draw. Id rather not be on full allret, red allret 24/7, with an itchy trigger finger...waiting for an attack as its not much of a quality of life living in permanant state of fear...unless your really fearless then you wouldnt need a gun anyhow as you wouldnt care either way.
id rather move somewhere with less people and less guns.

edit on 16-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-5-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-5-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-5-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

look the bottom line is..if your happy to live in a country where you feel you need to carry a gun for protection...then carry one. And yes you can predict many attacks, due to red flags people give off, like the way they look, look at you or walk towards you etc...but that would indicate youve never been jumped from behind, knocked unconsious etc as is common actually when it comes to assaults...alot of people used to say cell phones were a great invention for people who got kidnapped so they could alert the cops etc..but in reality they are usually of little use except maybe to triangulate a search area to look for the body afterwards. Anyhow even if there was a home invasion in the UK you cannot even stab your attacker..unless you happen to be in the kitchen at the time and get to a knife that way..if it came out you had a knife under your pillow you would get done for manslaughter or possibly even murder. Now that is how far the oppisite direction the UK is..in the wrong way...but that doesnt mean either the UK or US have a middle ground of commonsense.
In the UK you cant carry a knife on the street as a defensive weapon, then what happens if you get into a fist fight, the knife comes out doesnt it, it happens all the time. I wonder how many responsible gun owners have pulled guns when in a fist fight and used lethal force, when perhaps your opponent only needed a good ass kicking. I dunno...Like I said criminals in the UK carry knives and they use them, but if I carry one I get busted as once you have a weapon the law sees it all the same, you have a weapon and so your dangerous. i cant remember whitch poster said it, responding to me, but they used the expressions "Mind your manners and you would never see any of my weapons or temper." oh yeah it was you who said it hahaha...real responsible attitude...wouldnt minding your manners be a pretty subjective thing...in otherowrds where do you draw the line...is it a premptive strike mentality, as if it is then that would make you the bad guy, wouldnt it. you said you have a temper, well so do I but you would need to rattle me pretty hard for a reaction. guys with short fuses weather they think they are good or not really wanna think about gun ownership full stop.
see there aint much free speech when your talking to a guy with a bad attitude and a concealed weapon. You like it like that then great for you but as you live in the states dont be suprised when you wind up bumping into another guy with the same mentality.
and incase you start raging at me dont bother it will only prove me right man. And you wouldnt wanna do that as it would be pretty dumb haha.
i get it..I understand..its human nature, even an animal will want to protect itself and family..im no different..but in the US the main and most leathal thing your protecting yourself against it against is men armed with guns...not knives, we all know knives can be lethal but generally an idiot with a kinfe is a lot less lethal than an idiot with a gun. And we are talking leathal here, not getting stabbed or slashed, that happens here every day but fatal knife attacks are still pretty rare. Give guns to the idiots who currently only have knives and see what happens than, ever knife attack would be a gun shot and the number of murders would sky rocket over night. You dont get that apparently...we all know guns are tools but too many tools have posession of them. there will always be idiots and its better taking all guns out of the playpen because there will always be idiots.